Incompetent FEMA is sabotaging the operation?

Post by **mik0rs** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:03 pm

Maybe, but that's the government's flak to take. God there are some heartless fuckers in charge, probably in the majority of places but in the USA they really know how to breed their bastards.

Post by **Mr.Magnetichead** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:05 pm

It's not his fault. He probably thought they were the busboys of the hospitals restaurant just being lazy.

Post by **tnf** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:24 pm

Freakaloin wrote:brutal...rofl...

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - "New Orleans began the gruesome task of collecting its thousands of dead on Sunday as the Bush administration tried to save face after its botched rescue plans left the city at the mercy of Hurricane Katrina."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050904/ts_nm/katrina_dc

i don't find that statement directly anywhere in the article. did they change it?

Post by **blood.angel** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:28 pm

tnf wrote:
Freakaloin wrote:brutal...rofl...

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - "New Orleans began the gruesome task of collecting its thousands of dead on Sunday as the Bush administration tried to save face after its botched rescue plans left the city at the mercy of Hurricane Katrina."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050904/ts_nm/katrina_dc
i don't find that statement directly anywhere in the article. did they change it?

Holy shit they changed it.
AHAHAAHAHHAHAHA yanks are dumb.

Post by **Freakaloin** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:34 pm

tnf wrote:
Freakaloin wrote:brutal...rofl...

NEW ORLEANS (Reuters) - "New Orleans began the gruesome task of collecting its thousands of dead on Sunday as the Bush administration tried to save face after its botched rescue plans left the city at the mercy of Hurricane Katrina."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050904/ts_nm/katrina_dc
i don't find that statement directly anywhere in the article. did they change it?

wow...it was the first sentencecs in the first paragraph...hilarious...not!

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:42 pm

blood.angel wrote: AHAHAAHAHHAHAHA yanks are dumb.

They are your cousins, Seamus. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Post by **saturn** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:45 pm

heh, even the Dutch sent in their Dike-Repair experts.

they did that before in thirdworld countries like Bangladesh

(:olo:)

Post by **Dave** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:47 pm

Post by **Iccy (temp)** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:50 pm

I like how britian deals with their heads of state. When someone is in question everyone just gets in a room and yells at each other, none of this boy in a plastic bubble shit for the leader. I really earned some respect when i saw blair go on TV and answer questions directly from real people. He got reemed from the public and rightly so, but he stood there and took his lickings and if you asked me started acting better cause of it. He was sweating bullits and in bad shape at the end and i bet he wont look foward to that again.

Bush on the other hand.... well like i said, boy in the plastic bubble.

Post by **saturn** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:56 pm

Dave wrote:

clever search

after the flooding disaster in 1953 the dutch built the biggest waterdefense there is and we're still learning and adapting. Take heed from people that live under sea-level.

Post by **R00k** » Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:47 pm

tnf wrote:no, they want as much time as possible to make it look like things were so bad that no response could have fixed this problem.

As bad as things are there, do you really think they want them to look worse when the public finally sees?

I'm just curious. I think they would be more likely to try and cover up the whole thing so it doesn't look like they did such a shitty job - and that would fit their MO better, just like they do with the number of dead in Iraq.

Also, if they wait to make the situation look worse, then these stories about FEMA turning back aid and help are just going to destroy them politically. It seems like they would rather cover everything up before letting anyone else see how badly they screwed the pooch.

As far as the rest of your post, I agree 100%.

Post by **tnf** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:16 am

R00k wrote:
tnf wrote:no, they want as much time as possible to make it look like things were so bad that no response could have fixed this problem.
As bad as things are there, do you really think they want them to look worse when the public finally sees?

I'm just curious. I think they would be more likely to try and cover up the whole thing so it doesn't look like they did such a shitty job - and that would fit their MO better, just like they do with the number of dead in Iraq.

Also, if they wait to make the situation look worse, then these stories about FEMA turning back aid and help are just going to destroy them politically. It seems like they would rather cover everything up before letting anyone else see how badly they screwed the pooch.

As far as the rest of your post, I agree 100%.

I guessing they'll play the 'deny deny deny' game as for the charges against FEMA, or spin them into some red tape sort of bullshit...but to be bluntly honest, I really don't have a clue how they will begin to explain some of the accusations against them in a way that doesn't skewer them.

Honestly, I don't think there was really a motive, per se, for the horrible response, despite what I mentioned at the start of that post. Just the result of the horrible decisions that people have been bashing Bush for during the last number of years.

I would also predict that Bush and Rove will have a guy chosen to take the brunt of the fall for this - maybe Brown, maybe the homeland security director, and make a big deal out of how they will overhaul the system to fix it and make it right for the next time...never mentioning that it was Bush's changes to the system, primarily putting FEMA under the clusterfuck that is homeland security, that are to blame for much of the fucked response in the first place.

But I don't think even Karl Rove will be able to spin this one...some of those interviews with local mayors, the images, the survivor stories, etc., are going to stick with people a long, long time.

hopefully this will be the nail that breaks the camel's coffin.

Post by **R00k** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:24 am

Yea I agree. But the part I was discussing motive about, are the instances where FEMA has actively turned away help that was there and ready to be used - like Broussard was talking about, and the help from Chicago and Jamaica and all the other help that was offered.

I just find it hard to accept that those decisions were due to incompetence - I mean, even Forrest Gump wouldn't turn away truckloads of water and diesel fuel on their way to NO. There had to be some reason for those orders to be given - because they were direct orders, according to the Coast Guard and the President of Jefferson Parrish.

Post by **ajerara** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:43 am

I'm expecting a massive cover-up attempt, but there were so many witnesse, I don't know if it will be possible.

Post by **tnf** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:41 am

ajerara wrote:I'm expecting a massive cover-up attempt, but there were so many witnesse, I don't know if it will be possible.

cover up to what, exactly? i'm not saying there won't be certain things they try and keep under wraps, but i'm curious as to what you mean specifically?

Post by **Foo** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:50 am

Aye. I mean, the cat is completely out of the bag. Unless they're gonna pull some serious MiB shit with a big red flash from outer space, then what's left to cover?

Post by **Big Kahuna Burger** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:50 am

What is there to cover up? A hurricane with bad planning?

jw

Post by **R00k** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:51 am

Covering up the number of dead is what I'm concerned about.

Everybody knows a lot more people have died in Iraq than the DoD is reporting - yet still, they stick to their small numbers, and that's what CNN reports. So that's what everybody believes, except the America-haters, or the conspiracy theorists, or the baby-hating hippies, or the liberal media conspiracy.

If 80,000 people have died, then 25,000 will be reported. And as long as there is only one government organization handling the dead (Homeland Security), then that's all we'll need to know, and Chertoff's and Brown's word will be good enough for us.

Post by **Big Kahuna Burger** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:54 am

In Iraq, covering up the amount of deaths is a big deal, but I don't see how false numbers really mean anything in this situation. I don't mean to sound like a cunt, but does it matter how many people died?
If 3,000 people died, it was because of the hurricane. If 30,000 people died, it was because of the hurricane. Covering up the numbers doesn't make sense. imo it's a natural disaster; the government can't create those

Post by **R00k** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 5:58 am

So hypothetically speaking, you actually think it would be okay if for some reason the government decided to lie to everyone about how many people were killed?

Oh you edited more into your post.

How can you say that none of the casualties are because of the poor federal response? Did you read the interview I posted, or any of the other stories about FEMA denying aid, and generally not doing its job?

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:10 am

Looks like Kahuna Burger is unaware of the true nature of the situation...

hint: the "story" here is not the hurricane

Post by **blood.angel** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 2:26 pm

1. Announce an inquiry among statments of 'we must look to the future' and 'there was a general failure at every level so no ones to blame'.
2. Constantly say 'no comment until the inquiry is finished'.
3. Stall release of inquiry for as long as possible, 2009 probably.
4. Release it on a friday before a big weekend event so that diverts attention.

Post by **tnf** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:09 pm

blood.angel wrote:1. Announce an inquiry among statments of 'we must look to the future' and 'there was a general failure at every level so no ones to blame'.
2. Constantly say 'no comment until the inquiry is finished'.
3. Stall release of inquiry for as long as possible, 2009 probably.
4. Release it on a friday before a big weekend event so that diverts attention.

pretty much exactly how the administration works.

Post by **R00k** » Mon Sep 05, 2005 3:23 pm

blood.angel wrote:1. Announce an inquiry among statments of 'we must look to the future' and 'there was a general failure at every level so no ones to blame'.

"Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist (R-TN) today asked Senator Susan Collins and the Senate Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee to review the response by the federal government. Senate Frist made the following statement:

'In the wake of Hurricane Katrina there have been countless volunteers and government officials who have worked tirelessly to respond. The scope of this disaster is almost incomprehensible and the ongoing suffering which we have seen is heartbreaking. Getting relief to those in need and saving lives still in jeopardy is our first priority now.

Once the relief and recovery effort is complete, I have asked that Chairwoman Collins to hold oversight hearings and look at the federal government, FEMA and Department of Homeland Security’s response. It is my hope that Senator Collins will ensure that any lessons learned during this experience are brought to the forefront so that we may continue to be more effective in responding to any future disasters.'”

Post by **R00k** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 5:09 pm

FEMA Wants No Photos of Dead:

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... nes-nation

"We have requested that no photographs of the deceased be made by the media," the spokeswoman said in an e-mail.

The net tightens?