Evolution Debate in Kansas Prompts Attacks

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:34 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/evolution_de ... NjaWQxNzAw

Post by **rep** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:36 pm

Read about this the other day. I'd like to read tnf's opinion.

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:47 pm

rep wrote:I'd like to read tnf's opinion.

As always.

Post by **plained** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:49 pm

eh

me not so much

Post by **werldhed** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 3:50 pm

Circulated Monday was a newsletter from Morris, in which she derided evolution as an "age-old fairy tale

I can't...I mean...this is just...uh...how it this..........

ugh...it hurts my brain to try understanding their thinking here.

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:11 pm

I feel the same way, werldhed. I'm left speechless most times by this idiocy.

Post by **Coreiel** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:30 pm

LONG LIVE JESUS

Post by **SplishSplash** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:35 pm

I'm absolutely sure that somewhere on earth the truth will survive.
Somewhere on earth I will be able to start the "evolutionist's guerilla army" (E.G.A.) when Christian nutcases have taken over the world. Since they also oppose any gun regulations, it's all happy zealot-killing from there on.

Post by **Hannibal** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 5:51 pm

http://www.ksde.org/commiss/bdmem.html

Have at 'em. Hmmm. 2 elementary teachers with ZERO science training and a veterinarian who has apparently lost his marbles (to Jesus) drafted the new standards. This will turn out well.

edit: there's a PDF form of the "Science Standards Working Document of June 9, 2005" located here:

http://www.ksde.org/outcomes/sciencestd.html

all it seems to say is that there are debates WITHIN the scientific community about different aspects of contemporary evolutionary theory (duh) and that "intelligent design" per se is not explicitly a part of the standards. So it's not clear what's really going on.

Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:22 pm

It's just another half-asses attemt by the church to put god back in the school systems.

Post by **GONNAFISTYA** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:32 pm

riddla wrote:How in the fuck do creationists rationalize dinosaurs and fossil records into religious dogma and keep a straight face?

Because they choose to ignore it. Much like religion has tried to ignore science for hundreds of years.

The problem with religion and ID is that the religious nutjobs have realized they can't compete AT ALL with science so they try to incorporate it somehow into their bullshit about the great flood, Moses parting the Red Sea and that Jesus was somehow concieved without Mary getting her tight, little snatch pounded by cock.

Their rationale is "if you can't beat em, join em...but the instant they can't explain something complex jump on it like it's the biggest fallacy in the universe that proves ID right...and when science finally does explain it...go back to ignoring science".

That's the only way these people can function....otherwise their heads would explode.

Post by **GONNAFISTYA** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 6:35 pm

One sad scenario that I can't prove but I'm positive will happen is this:

In 1000 - 2000 years when all religion is finally looked upon as a hoax and a myth...when science unconditionally explains the universe without a need for a "hand of God".....when that time comes....there's gonna be a whole lot of suicides. Millions of them.

I say it's a great way to cleanse the gene pool.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:38 pm

I just don't know what to say anymore...but I'll try and form some sort of response other than "how the fuck are we still having this debate in t year 2005?"

I need time to decompress though. Today was the last day of school.

Post by **Coreiel** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:40 pm

in my opinion its like this. jesus is real, its recorded. so that means evolution is out.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:43 pm

Yes, because observation means nothing.

Post by **Coreiel** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:48 pm

exactly, thank you for clearing that up tnf.

Post by **Cool Blue** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 8:59 pm

:lol:

Evolution hasn't been observed, only speculated.

Show me one study that has and can repeatedly cause a favorable mutation in a genetic line that creates such a large increase in the survival rate ensuring its (the desired trait) is passed on.

I haven't found one yet. And to me, like with String theory, if you can't reproduce or prove something conclusively via tests in a labratory, it's merely a theory. This one seems to be a well thought out theory, but it's still just a theory. And until someone can recreate evolution on demand (or even a portion thereof) it hasn't been 'observed' either.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:00 pm

I'm guessing you are being sarcastic, but it should be noted that there are many, many evolutionary biologists who are also Christians (or other religions) and have absolutely no problem reconciling the two.

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:03 pm

tnf wrote: I need time to decompress though. Today was the last day of school.

By all means, you've earned it no doubt.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:05 pm

Cool Blue wrote::lol:

Evolution hasn't been observed, only speculated.

Show me one study that has and can repeatedly cause a favorable mutation in a genetic line that creates such a large increase in the survival rate ensuring its (the desired trait) is passed on.

I haven't found one yet. And to me, like with String theory, if you can't reproduce or prove something conclusively via tests in a labratory, it's merely a theory. This one seems to be a well thought out theory, but it's still just a theory. And until someone can recreate evolution on demand (or even a portion thereof) it hasn't been 'observed' either.

It's not a fault of the theory that the timescales involved in generating the 'appreciable' change that people "want" to see are too long to devise more traditional experiments.

And for the first one - antibiotic resistance.

And here are some observed instances of speciation.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html

And for your 'just a theory' stuff - gravity is 'just a theory.' The nature of light is 'just a theory.'

Post by **tnf** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:06 pm

I'm not even going to engage any further discussion about evolution here. Show me a time in the past 1000 years where religion has "won" the debate in the long run. And I am a Christian.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:07 pm

I see signs of evolution everywhere.

Post by **tnf** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:07 pm

Cool Blue wrote::lol:

Evolution hasn't been observed, only speculated.

Show me one study that has and can repeatedly cause a favorable mutation in a genetic line that creates such a large increase in the survival rate ensuring its (the desired trait) is passed on.

I haven't found one yet. And to me, like with String theory, if you can't reproduce or prove something conclusively via tests in a labratory, it's merely a theory. This one seems to be a well thought out theory, but it's still just a theory. And until someone can recreate evolution on demand (or even a portion thereof) it hasn't been 'observed' either.

BTW - EVERYTHING IS A FUCKING THEORY.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:07 pm

tnf wrote:I'm not even going to engage any further discussion about evolution here. Show me a time in the past 1000 years where religion has "won" the debate in the long run. And I am a Christian.

Erm well... if you're a Christian doesn't that mean they've sortof won whether they're right or wrong?

Post by **tnf** » Thu Jun 16, 2005 9:09 pm

Kracus wrote:
tnf wrote:I'm not even going to engage any further discussion about evolution here. Show me a time in the past 1000 years where religion has "won" the debate in the long run. And I am a Christian.
Erm well... if you're a Christian doesn't that mean they've sortof won whether they're right or wrong?

No, because not all Christians are involved or engaged in this debate. in fact, I would be willing to bet that a great proportion of us have no problem with evolution at all. We just tend not to be the vocal voice of the religion, because we are the types who aren't out hold society back with dogmatic fascist style beliefs.

The almost-empty box always rattles the loudest, regardless of the area you are in.