Ha I love it

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:38 pm

A lot of the people here crying excessive force are changing their tune a bit after they see the entire video. I suggest that those people watch it several more times and key in on specific things that are happening.

Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:45 pm

[xeno]Julios wrote:First off, there's no guarantee that the tazer would not kill her. As people have pointed out in this thread, there have been several taser deaths.

This is the main anti-tazer point I agree with. A cop has no way of knowing if a perp has a heart condition (try shocking a person with a pacemaker) and for those people, a shot with a tazer is probably certain death. In those instances, gunshot victims most likely have a better chance of survival

Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:54 pm

tnf wrote:
Foo wrote:
R00k wrote:The cops are supposed to be trained to negotiate tense situations -- they definitely should be able to talk this woman down until she is calm enough to listen to them, unless she is on mind-altering substances or something.
I'll concede this point.
She doesn't need to be on mind-altering substances. She is a large, pissed off woman. If you could negotiate that down, there'd be a lot less kids getting beat up at K-Marts, the mall, and probably a lot less guys sleeping on couches.

for instance...

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 10:59 pm

Dave wrote:
[xeno]Julios wrote:First off, there's no guarantee that the tazer would not kill her. As people have pointed out in this thread, there have been several taser deaths.
This is the main anti-tazer point I agree with. A cop has no way of knowing if a perp has a heart condition (try shocking a person with a pacemaker) and for those people, a shot with a tazer is probably certain death. In those instances, gunshot victims most likely have a better chance of survival

It has been tested and it will not cause death to people with pace makers or heart conditions.

Look it up...

Sheesh, quit with the speculation and research the facts.

Post by **Dave** » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:05 pm

YourGrandpa wrote:
Dave wrote:
[xeno]Julios wrote:First off, there's no guarantee that the tazer would not kill her. As people have pointed out in this thread, there have been several taser deaths.
This is the main anti-tazer point I agree with. A cop has no way of knowing if a perp has a heart condition (try shocking a person with a pacemaker) and for those people, a shot with a tazer is probably certain death. In those instances, gunshot victims most likely have a better chance of survival
It has been tested and it will not cause death to people with pace makers or heart conditions.

Look it up...

Sheesh, quit with the speculation and research the facts.

Stop being so flippin defensive... I happen to be on tnf's side and unfortunately, by extension of that, on your side. Here's a story where the taser president says (aka admits openly) that in 15 out of AI's 100 'confirmed' cases tasers could actually be the cause of death

http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php? ... aker_taser

Christ... You must own stock

Post by **tnf** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:09 am

Dave wrote:
Stop being so flippin defensive... I happen to be on tnf's side and unfortunately, by extension of that, on your side.

That made me laugh, dave.

:icon32:

Post by **Nightshade** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 1:24 am

R00k wrote:
tnf wrote:I would agree that the second tasering (I didn't realize he did it a second time) was overboard. The initial tasering, however, was still justified IMHO (read my post at the end of 7.)
Yea, I hadn't watched the full video (only the first one posted) until now. It gives a better idea of the situation and the attitudes and tension involved.
To me, after watching it, the officer seemed to be escalating the situation from the beginning, instead of making an attempt to calm the situation down. A peaceful end to the stop was never possible from the way he approached it in the beginning.

I really can't see how you're getting this impression from the video. She was being belligerent as fuck from the get go, acting like she'd done absolutely nothing wrong, and telling him that he couldn't legally clock her unless he was stopped on the side of the road. She was the one that was doing the escalating by acting like a shithead and doing what she was told to do.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 2:56 am

I think he wanted the officer to give her a big hug and tell her everything was going to be ok.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:10 am

Dave wrote: http://www.tucsoncitizen.com/index.php? ... aker_taser

Christ... You must own stock

This is a link to a more broad range of research with a few more facts that are less speculative.

http://www.policeone.com/police-product ... es/100014/

What your link fails to mention is how many incidences ended in death without using a taser.

Post by **Dave** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:22 am

Dave wrote:You must own stock

Post by **Dave** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:23 am

tnf wrote:
Dave wrote:
Stop being so flippin defensive... I happen to be on tnf's side and unfortunately, by extension of that, on your side.
That made me laugh, dave.

:icon32:

The credit goes to YG. He's such an easy target.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:30 am

Dave wrote:
Dave wrote:You must own stock

No, I don't own stock. Though I do cringe at the amount of morons who dump on police officers and their standard tactics without a clue about reality.

Post by **R00k** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:32 am

YourGrandpa wrote:Post some details of those deaths supposedly caused by tazers, instead of just saying there has been 100 deaths envolving tazers. You'll find that most of those people were jacked up on drugs and died of a heart attack later on. They weren't killed by the tazer, they were killed by the drugs. Their heart rate increased during the confrontation, as it would have durring a purely physical struggle and they died when their heart exploded due to excessive amounts of drungs in their system.

You weak minded, bleeding heart pansies need to get a dose of reality. The tazer is the safest measure available to aid in the restraint of a combative suspect. It guarantees less injuries than a phisical struggle (i.e. broken limbs, HIV infected bleeding and so on). It's much less painful and lasting than being coated in the face with pepper spray and it usually brings an end to the confrotaion with the mear threat of using it because people are afraid of being shocked.

Get real people and wake up.

Edit: BTW, she got hit the second time because she was trying to pull out the taser probes without following the commands of the officer. If you 'listen' to the full video, the officer explains her injuries to his commander on the raido.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/12/natio ... oref=login

That story has two deaths that were confirmed by autopsy to be the direct result of tasering. I'm sure you can find more with a quick google, but I'm also sure that as soon as you read this you're going to say something about it being only two.

You're the one who should be researching facts instead of getting all emotional. I'm going with Dave on this one and guessing you own stock or something.

Calling me a "weak minded, bleeding heart pansy" is truly funny and accurate too. You should be a psychoanalyst because you're obviously a genius in that field. A genius who can't read very well.

Post by **R00k** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:35 am

inolen wrote:
R00k wrote:He had the taser trained on her - if she had made a move for the glovebox, under her seat, or anything, he would have been right to tase her. But for not listening to him? He took the risk, even if a small one, that she might be killed.
One article said she swung at him.

She slapped the cop's hand away when he was trying to take her cellphone from her.

And I'll say it once again - I'm not on the stupid bitch's side here. She needed her cellphone taken away, and needed to be arrested. But that's not a swing, she wasn't an immediate threat to anybody, and using force that's possibly lethal is not justified.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:38 am

Read up dork and learn something.

BTW, people die every day, of all different kinds of things. Would you care to ponder the amount of lives tasers have saved? Possibly not, since you're such a super fuzzy nice guy.

Post by **Dave** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:41 am

http://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

Post by **R00k** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:44 am

Also, if anybody hasn't read between the lines of my arguments yet, I am arguing against the use of tasers in general, unless it is as a substitute for using a gun. They have killed people, and haven't been proven safe for the general population yet, and should not be used so lightly by cops in general traffic stops and non-violent situations.

It has nothing to do with the stupid bitch in this case. I repeat, this fat, worthless, dimebag whore of a nutjob has absolutely no bearing on my arguments in this thread. Hopefully she gets a 'goddamn liter o cola' dumped down her back every time she goes to the movies for being an obnoxious, mouth-breathing life support system for a cunt.

But the cop - and any cop - is wrong to use a taser on a person until they have no choice but to use lethal force and it is a last resort before shooting someone.

And yes Gramps, that is directed at you. I am not in love with this behemoth, and she did not paypal me money, and I don't owe her reparations for my great grandfather raping her grandmother over a barrel, and I don't think she's a sweet old lady that has been wronged in life. I just think you are a narrow-minded, stubborn retard of a child molestor who can't think outside his own little green shitbox, and who refuses to admit some of the black-and-white thought processes that have guided your entire life might not work for every situation under the sun.

Post by **R00k** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:46 am

YourGrandpa wrote:Read up dork and learn something.

BTW, people die every day, of all different kinds of things. Would you care to ponder the amount of lives tasers have saved? Possibly not, since you're such a super fuzzy nice guy.

You're the one who's refusing to read here.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:53 am

R00k wrote: She slapped the cop's hand away when he was trying to take her cellphone from her.

And I'll say it once again - I'm not on the stupid bitch's side here. She needed her cellphone taken away, and needed to be arrested. But that's not a swing, she wasn't an immediate threat to anybody, and using force that's possibly lethal is not justified.

Slapping an officer is 'ASSAULT' you dimwit. She assaulted the officer only after she was speeding, driving on a suspended license, being belligerent and resisting arrest. What should the officers do, set up a picnic table and coax her out of the car with a cup of tea?

I'll say it again - Every form of restraint is possibly lethal. She could have been forcefully removed from the vehicle, landed on her head and broke her neck. She could have struggled with the officer and caused him to fall on her, shoving her ribs into her lungs. She could have fought with the officers and ended up with a number of different injuries.

You could speculate all day long. The facts still remain. Everyone walked away fine.

Post by **inolen** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:54 am

I agr*shudder*ee with gramps.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:57 am

R00k wrote:Also, if anybody hasn't read between the lines of my arguments yet, I am arguing against the use of tasers in general, unless it is as a substitute for using a gun. They have killed people, and haven't been proven safe for the general population yet, and should not be used so lightly by cops in general traffic stops and non-violent situations.

It has nothing to do with the stupid bitch in this case. I repeat, this fat, worthless, dimebag whore of a nutjob has absolutely no bearing on my arguments in this thread. Hopefully she gets a 'goddamn liter o cola' dumped down her back every time she goes to the movies for being an obnoxious, mouth-breathing life support system for a cunt.

But the cop - and any cop - is wrong to use a taser on a person until they have no choice but to use lethal force and it is a last resort before shooting someone.

And yes Gramps, that is directed at you. I am not in love with this behemoth, and she did not paypal me money, and I don't owe her reparations for my great grandfather raping her grandmother over a barrel, and I don't think she's a sweet old lady that has been wronged in life. I just think you are a narrow-minded, stubborn retard of a child molestor who can't think outside his own little green shitbox, and who refuses to admit some of the black-and-white thought processes that have guided your entire life might not work for every situation under the sun.

Look at the moron jumping up and down pouting. :lol:

Feel free to live in your little puppy dog and cute kitty world, doofus. The real world is still out there, even though you refuse to acknowledge it.

Post by **Dave** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:59 am

Gramps has to lead off all of his retorts with an insult. He's the reason that arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.

Post by **YourGrandpa** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:02 am

Dave wrote:Gramps has to lead off all of his retorts with an insult. He's the reason that arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.

Yeah, and because I'm right you'll overlook the multiple insults Doork posted because he's been made to look like a complete idiot.

Post by **R00k** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:03 am

YourGrandpa wrote:
R00k wrote: She slapped the cop's hand away when he was trying to take her cellphone from her.

And I'll say it once again - I'm not on the stupid bitch's side here. She needed her cellphone taken away, and needed to be arrested. But that's not a swing, she wasn't an immediate threat to anybody, and using force that's possibly lethal is not justified.
Slapping an officer is 'ASSAULT' you dimwit. She assaulted the officer only after she was speeding, driving on a suspended license, being belligerent and resisting arrest. What should the officers do, set up a picnic table and coax her out of the car with a cup of tea?

I'll say it again - Every form of restraint is possibly lethal. She could have been forcefully removed from the vehicle, landed on her head and broke her neck. She could have struggled with the officer and caused him to fall on her, shoving her ribs into her lungs. She could have fought with the officers and ended up with a number of different injuries.

You could speculate all day long. The facts still remain. Everyone walked away fine.

Yep, the 80 year old lady who hit a cop in the arm with her cane was charged with assault too. God he should have tased that bitch to the ground.

Post by **Dave** » Sun Jun 05, 2005 4:04 am

YourGrandpa wrote:
Dave wrote:Gramps has to lead off all of his retorts with an insult. He's the reason that arguing on the internet is like running in the Special Olympics.
Yeah, and because I'm right you'll overlook the multiple insults Doork posted because he's been made to look like a complete idiot.

1v1 funboy?