Official Q3W EU Constitution Voting Behaviour Thread

Post by **Ryoki** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:47 am

Well, what are you voting? And if you can't, what are your thoughts about the EU constitution?

Personally i'm voting no for one simple reason, the fact that the EU will have more to say about the law than we do. Which possibly means bye bye gay marriage, prostitution, euthenasia, abortion, softdrugs policy and all that - which would absolutely be a terrible thing and should never be allowed.

Also, what a completely disgraceful Yes campaign the goverment had (amongst other things the yes camp threatened with possible war, being cast out of the EU, shamelessly aired WW2 concentration camp footage in commercials suggestion a no to the constitution would mean a repeat, economic catastrophy and much more) - my god, to see such blatent propaganda fail so horribly one has to look at the US, with the exception that US propaganda seems to work in the US and fail in the rest of the world and this particular stuff just failed full stop. 90% of the people i talked to is voting no.

Post by **duffman91** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:50 am

What is the argument FOR the constitution? All the news articles seem to be against it.

Post by **saturn** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:51 am

lol Ryoki, 90 percent is in the EU laws already, so not much is going to change and it doesn't overrule the national laws on many areas. Shame on you, for being so scared.

I'm going to vote yes, cause Europe will be one, it's only slowed down by the french NON

Post by **Pext** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:51 am

i'll post some arguments after i return from my jogging tour in ~ 1h.

the constitution is a good thing. vote with yes!

the #1 reason to do so is the introduction of an EU foreign minister... which basicly means that the EU will speak with one vioce!

Post by **Dave** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:53 am

Was France worried about protecting France for the French? Birth rates are low and immigration is high from what I hear, maybe someone is turning xenophobic...

Post by **Pext** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:58 am

the reasons for wich people are voting against the constitution are not easy to explain. many factors come together:

- general national discontent
- right wing nationalists
- anti globilasation movements
- left wing people

and then, some of the parties use fearmongering: turkeys EU entry (anti muslim crap), economical fear, etc...

Post by **Ryoki** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:58 am

saturn wrote:lol Ryoki, 90 percent is in the EU laws already, so not much is going to change and it doesn't overrule the national laws on many areas. Shame on you, for being so scared.

I know that the current laws are almost identical, but as i understand it the constitution officially places EU laws above national laws. This is currently not the case, the EU cannot overrule national laws.

So not much <i>might</i> change, but i can see it happening that totally catholic countries such as Portugal, Poland, Spain or Ireland will fight things like abortion and euthenasia.

Post by **Pext** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:59 am

lol... no.

these countries got no real power in the EU

Post by **saturn** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 9:59 am

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4596093.stm

Mostly the socialists and christian parties are against. One of the main reasons why people will vote no is cause they werent involved in setting up the constitution. That's what democracy!

Post by **Zyte -_-** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:02 am

I would vote for but fact is i cannot.

Don't forget the right wing's no saturn. clown wilders, lpf in holland.

Post by **Pext** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:02 am

but this is plain stupid: they stop a democratisation because they want more democracy...

it is obvious that this EU constitution is NOT in the final state... it's just that you can't do the whole thing at once: the countries got to get used to the idea that they might loose their sovereignty.

Post by **Survivor** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:03 am

I find it amazing how they try to convince us to vote yes yet i have yet to see them state some details. They say the constitution will make it safer and such but I'd like to know HOW they are planning to make their claims come true.

Post by **Ryoki** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:03 am

Pext wrote:lol... no.

these countries got no real power in the EU

As long as there is a remote chance of it happening i vote no with a passion. I'm all for a stronger EU, but don't fuck with my culture (by which i do not mean no Turkey into the EU, i'm all for that).

Post by **Geebs** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:03 am

Dave wrote:Birth rates are low and immigration is high from what I hear, maybe someone is turning xenophobic...

Turning? They always have been. Matter of fact, so are many of us.

I don't see a point in a constitution, because I don't see it making any actual difference. Written constitutions are a pain in the arse (see: the US).

Plus us brits'll still be paying lots of VAT and suffering artificially inflated prices.

Post by **Geebs** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:05 am

Ryoki wrote:(by which i do not mean no Turkey into the EU, i'm all for that).

I don't know why they're worried about that, all the Turks are living in north london already anyway. And half of them can't speak any fucking english.

Post by **Don Carlos** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:06 am

Ii'll vote NO

Post by **Dave** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:07 am

Geebs wrote:
Dave wrote:Birth rates are low and immigration is high from what I hear, maybe someone is turning xenophobic...
Turning? They always have been. Matter of fact, so are many of us.

I don't see a point in a constitution, because I don't see it making any actual difference. Written constitutions are a pain in the arse (see: the US).

Plus us brits'll still be paying lots of VAT and suffering artificially inflated prices.

I was walking a line between sarcasm and curiosity

Post by **saturn** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:07 am

Ryoki wrote:
saturn wrote:lol Ryoki, 90 percent is in the EU laws already, so not much is going to change and it doesn't overrule the national laws on many areas. Shame on you, for being so scared.
I know that the current laws are almost identical, but as i understand it the constitution officially places EU laws above national laws. This is currently not the case, the EU cannot overrule national laws.

So not much <i>might</i> change, but i can see it happening that totally catholic countries such as Portugal, Poland, Spain or Ireland will fight things like abortion and euthenasia.

there are 25 countries in the EU, we need a framework to get this Union work out smoothly.

We keep our own constitution
We keep out national identity - the Union will not decide about things like the gay marriage, hypotheekrente-aftrek (lol), softdrugs policy, etc.

I think a European constitution will give more clarity and better communication.

Post by **saturn** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:09 am

Don Carlos wrote:Ii'll vote NO

We don't want you Inselaffen anyway.

Ireland on the other hand....

Post by **Geebs** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:12 am

saturn wrote:Ireland on the other hand....

......is one of the most poverty-stricken and generally unemployed bits of western europe

Post by **Ryoki** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:12 am

saturn wrote: We keep out national identity - the Union will not decide about things like the gay marriage, hypotheekrente-aftrek (lol), softdrugs policy, etc.

Dude, seriously, if you can find something official looking that literally says this, i'll vote yes in a few hours.

Unfortunately i think they merely promised not to touch it, but the constitution does give them the power to do so anyway... Which is imo simply not good enough.

Post by **saturn** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:13 am

Ryoki wrote:
Pext wrote:lol... no.

these countries got no real power in the EU
As long as there is a remote chance of it happening i vote no with a passion. I'm all for a stronger EU, but don't fuck with my culture (by which i do not mean no Turkey into the EU, i'm all for that).

I know you're intelligent and read a lot of things, have you delved deeper into this Proposal for an European Constitution? Some of your claims are not true (you can see that I'm not calling you a liar ;p) but seem to come out of lack of information.

That's the flaw about the goverment's campaign. They didn't communicate too well with the people and it feels forced upon.

Post by **saturn** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:14 am

Geebs wrote:
saturn wrote:Ireland on the other hand....
......is one of the most poverty-stricken and generally unemployed bits of western europe

yeah but we still love 'em

Post by **Don Carlos** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:14 am

Geebs wrote:
saturn wrote:Ireland on the other hand....
......is one of the most poverty-stricken and generally unemployed bits of western europe

:icon26:

Post by **saturn** » Wed Jun 01, 2005 10:16 am

Ryoki wrote:
saturn wrote: We keep out national identity - the Union will not decide about things like the gay marriage, hypotheekrente-aftrek (lol), softdrugs policy, etc.
Dude, seriously, if you can find something official looking that literally says this, i'll vote yes in a few hours.

Unfortunately i think they merely promised not to touch it, but the constitution does give them the power to do so anyway... Which is imo simply not good enough.

damnit ryoki, why don't you read this site:

http://www.grondweteuropa.nl/

and stop residing to angsty populism