Don't go to class in Texas

[seremtan]

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-texas ... SKCN10C2FS

A new law went into effect in Texas on Monday that allows certain students to bring guns into classrooms, with supporters saying it could prevent mass shootings and critics saying the measure will endanger safety on campuses.

in before Texas universities have a safe space policy

[losCHUNK]

I couldn't even wear trainers

[Whiskey 7]

Be interesting to follow this ...

[SoM]

USA USA USA

[Whiskey 7]

USA USA USA

It might just work and the statistics reduce.

[MKJ]

USA USA USA

It might just work and the statistics reduce.

pretty sure that the amount of mass shootings prevented by armed civilians are next to zero.

[losCHUNK]

I'll take on that bet

[PhoeniX]

I remember when BB guns were all the rage, half my school must have got shot. I'm sure it'll be even more fun with a real gun

[Eraser]

USA USA USA

It might just work and the statistics reduce.

Strange thing, coming from an Australian, the one country that proved banning gun seriously dropped the number of mass shootings.

[Whiskey 7]

Strange thing, coming from an Australian, the one country that proved banning gun seriously dropped the number of mass shootings.

No argument from me, It will be interesting to see if the policy is effective. It did but people still kill people here; thankfully it appears to be on a decline...

[lvlshot]http://i68.tinypic.com/2nsnsea.jpg[/lvlshot]

Mass shootings in Australia?

Australia Hasn’t Had A Mass Shooting Since 1996

The story of Australia, which had 13 mass shootings in the 18-year period from 1979 to 1996 but none in the succeeding 19 years, is worth examining.

The turning point was the 1996 Port Arthur massacre in Tasmania, in which a gunman killed 35 individuals using semiautomatic weapons.

Source - http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/06/austr ... ince-1996/

By the way, I did not support the ban on gun ownership in Australia back then and I am still a little peeved it happened. I won't resurrect a gun debate but will say there is nothing wrong with good people owning guns! It is just getting hard to identify the nutters out there

I was a proud and responsible gun owner back then but we all know times have changed.... Searches Q3W... Here it is.

Posted: 12-25-2013 01:14 PM

I will admit I owned an SKS some years ago this bought on by the video.

Funny enough when I purchased it was still in heavy brown, and I mean heavy, like the old tar paper (if you remember that stuff) and filled with the thickest grease material. Took ages to clean for firing. It was pretty accurate and yes, somewhat of a pleasure to fire

Hey, it might not be from Russia, probably a Chinese import.

Note: I sold my gun collection some months before the Port Arthur massacre here in '95/'96.
Clicky

For interest http://www.aic.gov.au/statistics/homicide.html
[lvlshot]http://i63.tinypic.com/29tv88.jpg[/lvlshot]

[ToxicBug]

[Captain]

It might just work and the statistics reduce.

They don't hire prison guards for their brains, that's for sure.

[Whiskey 7]

I am guessing that you have never been in the situation of loading a pump action shot gun and aiming towards a group in a confined space intending to press the trigger!!

Maybe too you haven't been on your way to the shop to buy a gun to kill someone either and after having visualized/planned the execution of a child molester who came too close for comfort!!

I have been in both. Stand aside Captain Mazda

[Eraser]

Looks like whiskey is one of the reasons why a ban on guns is a really, really good idea

[losCHUNK]

I am guessing that you have never been in the situation of loading a pump action shot gun and aiming towards a group in a confined space intending to press the trigger!!

Maybe too you haven't been on your way to the shop to buy a gun to kill someone either and after having visualized/planned the execution of a child molester who came too close for comfort!!

I have been in both. Stand aside Captain Mazda

Reckon you would've had him if you had your gun ?

Looks like whiskey is one of the reasons why a ban on guns is a really, really good idea

He was a prison guard, so now I have visions of the Whisk standing off against 100 prisoners. Some say his hearing failed from the screams of his foes.

[Foo]

pretty sure that the amount of mass shootings prevented by armed civilians are next to zero.

That's because it doesn't become a mass shooting if it gets stopped, ya dingus

To name a few: New Life Church, Pearl High, Santa Clara gunshop, Golden food market, Early Texas shooting, AT&T Store, College Park. There were ~600 active shooter incidents in the US in the past ~15 years so there's 1% of them off the top of my head, and we have to agree that any reduction in innocent lives lost is a positive thing.

Of course, these never get wide media coverage and certainly don't make any global news because they didn't become a newsworthy event i.e. not many people died. Sometimes, it's actively not reported.

What we can easily establish from media reports though is that many mass shootings in USA happen in areas where guns are controlled. Nutjobs still have the wherewithal to target such areas. There's an FBI report that goes into a lot of detail and, although it skips around drawing any controversial conclusions, there are some relevant stats in there:
- About 5% of active shooter events between 2000 and 2013 were stopped by armed citizens
- About a quarter of all events targeted educational institutes i.e. schools and university campuses, and none of these events were stopped by armed citizens because these are gun-free zones.
- About half of all events were at commercial properties and targeted at employees i.e. people definitely not carrying. In the cases where these were stopped by armed citizens it was of course customers and in states with concealed carry.

The USA does not have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem exacerbated by cultural problems and a high proliferation of firearms both legal and illegal. Reality is that coming from it's current position, gun control is not a practical way forward for the nation. To take gun control measures far enough to have a measurable impact would mean curtailing a constitutional right, and the country's on edge enough as it stands.

Urbanization is another major factor at play here. Go back 100+ years and gun ownership went hand in hand with rural lifestyles, doubly so in America with the pioneer/frontier situation and there there was a genuine need for both hunting and self defense firearm use (most nations moved past the self defense need a long time prior but the USA is a relatively new nation and still has that culture underpinning a lot of modern day attitudes). Fast forward to modern times and migration trends towards urban environments where, outside of sport target shooting, there is no hunting need for a firearm and all that's left is the claim of self defense. Many people alive today have lived their entire lives in urban areas and question the need for anyone to be armed. These same people don't know butter comes from cows because in their world, it doesn't. It's understandable that their perspective extends as far as the 7-11 and no further. They're not stupid, or in their own context wrong, but they have a very narrow view. The reality is far more complex, and their media sources of information are doing a terrible job informing them impartially (or a great job of keeping them misinformed, depending on your perspective).

It's sadly not productive to say 'USA should increase gun control', because for every successful case like Australia, you have unsuccessful ones like Sierra Leone and Ecuador, or counterexamples like Finland and Switzerland (very high firearm ownership, rock-bottom homicide rates). USA is unique in that across the country you have urban areas that vary socioeconomically and culturally so much that they could be compared case-by-case to any other country you like. Parts of Baltimore and Chicago are not that far from Sierra Leone and Ecuador to exclude those as valid examples, and indeed that's where the greatest amount of gun crime occurs.

[Captain]

I am guessing that you have never been in the situation of loading a pump action shot gun and aiming towards a group in a confined space intending to press the trigger!!

Maybe too you haven't been on your way to the shop to buy a gun to kill someone either and after having visualized/planned the execution of a child molester who came too close for comfort!!

I have been in both. Stand aside Captain Mazda

[losCHUNK]

pretty sure that the amount of mass shootings prevented by armed civilians are next to zero.

That's because it doesn't become a mass shooting if it gets stopped, ya dingus

To name a few: New Life Church, Pearl High, Santa Clara gunshop, Golden food market, Early Texas shooting, AT&T Store, College Park. There were ~600 active shooter incidents in the US in the past ~15 years so there's 1% of them off the top of my head, and we have to agree that any reduction in innocent lives lost is a positive thing.

Of course, these never get wide media coverage and certainly don't make any global news because they didn't become a newsworthy event i.e. not many people died. Sometimes, it's actively not reported.

What we can easily establish from media reports though is that many mass shootings in USA happen in areas where guns are controlled. Nutjobs still have the wherewithal to target such areas. There's an FBI report that goes into a lot of detail and, although it skips around drawing any controversial conclusions, there are some relevant stats in there:
- About 5% of active shooter events between 2000 and 2013 were stopped by armed citizens
- About a quarter of all events targeted educational institutes i.e. schools and university campuses, and none of these events were stopped by armed citizens because these are gun-free zones.
- About half of all events were at commercial properties and targeted at employees i.e. people definitely not carrying. In the cases where these were stopped by armed citizens it was of course customers and in states with concealed carry.

The USA does not have a gun problem, it has a mental health problem exacerbated by cultural problems and a high proliferation of firearms both legal and illegal. Reality is that coming from it's current position, gun control is not a practical way forward for the nation. To take gun control measures far enough to have a measurable impact would mean curtailing a constitutional right, and the country's on edge enough as it stands.

Urbanization is another major factor at play here. Go back 100+ years and gun ownership went hand in hand with rural lifestyles, doubly so in America with the pioneer/frontier situation and there there was a genuine need for both hunting and self defense firearm use (most nations moved past the self defense need a long time prior but the USA is a relatively new nation and still has that culture underpinning a lot of modern day attitudes). Fast forward to modern times and migration trends towards urban environments where, outside of sport target shooting, there is no hunting need for a firearm and all that's left is the claim of self defense. Many people alive today have lived their entire lives in urban areas and question the need for anyone to be armed. These same people don't know butter comes from cows because in their world, it doesn't. It's understandable that their perspective extends as far as the 7-11 and no further. They're not stupid, or in their own context wrong, but they have a very narrow view. The reality is far more complex, and their media sources of information are doing a terrible job informing them impartially (or a great job of keeping them misinformed, depending on your perspective).

It's sadly not productive to say 'USA should increase gun control', because for every successful case like Australia, you have unsuccessful ones like Sierra Leone and Ecuador, or counterexamples like Finland and Switzerland (very high firearm ownership, rock-bottom homicide rates). USA is unique in that across the country you have urban areas that vary socioeconomically and culturally so much that they could be compared case-by-case to any other country you like. Parts of Baltimore and Chicago are not that far from Sierra Leone and Ecuador to exclude those as valid examples, and indeed that's where the greatest amount of gun crime occurs.

TLDR: America is a backwards fucked up country full of morons.

I think the problem is more to do with the culture surrounding it, everyone has their fair share of morons. I mean one of the reasons for carrying a weapon is for self defence and couple that with the stand your ground laws - everyone all of a sudden has a case for 'reasonable' force thinking the other guy could possibly have a weapon and not being obliged to run like the clappers. Just look what happens when you suggest that you remove automatic rifles, the place goes apoplectic.

I reckon where other countries have moved to enforce gun measures, safety and regulation successfully Americas progress has been hampered by this culture. Instead of trying to find ways to solve the issues both sides dig their heals in, sane laws gets repealed, insane laws get enacted, rinse and repeat.

As an outsider looking in anyway.

[seremtan]

here we go again

[losCHUNK]

Thing is Foo actually made a decent arguement and I don't entirely disagree with it.

It's just stuff like the swiss example, I know that the Swiss have national service which means they'll all be well trained in the use of firearms and their safety, they prolly get to keep their guns too which might explain the high possession rate - seeing as it is a well regulated Militia . Imagine trying to suggest that to the Americans gun lobby.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same for the Fins, considering what I read about them VS the Russians during WWII (tough little fuckers)

And I don't think it's fair to cite examples like Sierra Leone who went through a civil war not that long ago.

[Foo]

TLDR: America is a backwards fucked up country full of morons.

It's probably more appropriate in Memph's cultural decline thread but yeah, same point. There's that often-repeated idea that we're just hearing about this stuff more now because global news travels faster and sticks around longer, and that's true, but it's naive to assume there's no follow-on effect of that (i.e. yeah we hear about retards more often, but that in itself is actively perpetuating the decline as well).

I think the problem is more to do with the culture surrounding it, everyone has their fair share of morons. I mean one of the reasons for carrying a weapon is for self defense and couple that with the stand your ground laws - everyone all of a sudden has a case for 'reasonable' force thinking the other guy could possibly have a weapon and not being obliged to run like the clappers. Just look what happens when you suggest that you remove automatic rifles, the place goes apoplectic.

I reckon where other countries have moved to enforce gun measures, safety and regulation successfully Americas progress has been hampered by this culture. Instead of trying to find ways to solve the issues both sides dig their heals in, sane laws gets repealed, insane laws get enacted, rinse and repeat.

As an outsider looking in anyway.

Completely agree.

[seremtan]

wow that's a motherlode of retardation in that graphic

[xer0s]

lvl that shit...

[seremtan]

so, guns yes.

burping, no

the retardation plumbs new and uncharted depths. onward to Tardopia!

given how many parties were involved, it can't even be called an isolated incident