Question to those who have ever beat an addiction

Post by **tnf** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:43 am

So, I deal with kids who are addicted to shit on a daily basis - everything from cigarettes to oxycontin.
I give them all the advice I can from a medical/scientific perspective, but what I don't have is advice to give them about how to beat cravings for their drug of choice.

People say that nicotine cravings can be as bad as almost any drug...so, what is the secret to beating them? Especially when you still have access to the thing you are addicted to? As I talk to kids, I try not to disillusion them into thinking that there will be a magic solution for their problem, and that it is going to take willpower, etc. But do any of you have things you have done that worked well for beating cravings when they hit you?

Post by **saturn** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:49 am

i quit smoking once suddenly without planning, i just threw the cigarette and the pack away while I was cycling through the city. Then I didn't touch it for 3-4 months while I have a lot of smoking friends (who offered cigs all the time, bitches). I said to myself that I wasn't a slave and did not need it.

Worked fine, till I went to Thailand for a few weeks vacation and had one cigarette on the airport of Bangkok. After that it was 4 weeks of partying, seeing temples, booze, cigs. I never recovered from that

I need a new magic moment with some out-of-the-blue willpower.

Post by **saturn** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:51 am

but you know, once an addict, always an addict. There are irreversible changes in your brains that affect the balance between dopamine, serotonine and a few other neurotransmitters.

Post by **tnf** » Mon May 16, 2005 12:58 am

saturn wrote:but you know, once an addict, always an addict. There are irreversible changes in your brains that affect the balance between dopamine, serotonine and a few other neurotransmitters.

Isn't there some debate as to how irreversible these changes are, as well as how long you need to be 'addicted' for these changes to take place.

For example, someone who abuses narcotics for a few months will have changes in their body's natural production of endorphins and enkephalins, but after stopping those will eventually normalize again.

Do you know much about when/how these irreversible changes actually start to take place?

Post by **LeonardoP** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:01 am

in Supersize me theres an interview in which they talk about opiate receptors. they can be blocked by a drug, dunno which. would this work i.c.w. nicotine etc?

Post by **PhoeniX** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:02 am

I guess a lot of it is people not really wanting to give up, coupled with low will power. I don't really have an addictive personality at all; I've smoked many cigarettes whilst at parties and with friends etc then I'll not touch them again for months, I've never once 'craved' one, just at the time it's a kind of 'why not' thing

Post by **saturn** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:05 am

no I don't, but I guess you need to be addicted for a while and it depends on what drug you use.

If you use MDMA/ectasy there could be irreversible changes after 50 pills, regardless the timeframe you're taking them.

Maybe one of those irreversible effects means that you're more suspectible to fall back into your old habit. Like with nicotine it's largely a psychological addiction, the physical and cold turkey effects are minimal. As long as you don't get exposed to it too much, you'll get through longer periods.
The problems with smoking/nicotine that it's a drug/habit that's suitable for EVERY situation. When you're stressed, when you're relaxed, when you had dinner, with your cup of coffee, after sex, before sex, etc.

That's why there's never a good time to quit smoking. And that's why a lot of my friends who've quit smoking, still ask for a few cigarettes when I'm around, or when they had a few drinks.

Post by **Deathshroud** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:07 am

Ask any alchoholic how far they are from becoming addicted again, and they'll all tell you one drop.

What does that say about long lasting effects?

Post by **PhoeniX** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:08 am

Perhaps; though I have a very high will power over most things, besides, I'm very cautious about wasting money and at nearly £5 a carton I would never buy them

Testoclesius · Post by **Testoclesius** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:11 am

im totally addicted to being awesome :lol:

Post by **Grandpa Stu** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:12 am

um...kind of a petty addiction but i'm sure you remember my obsession with dr pepper. a couple reasons made me "quit" drinking dr pepper. for starters my headaches went away, my bloaty gas feeling went away, my acne practically went away, i overall felt better and i saved a bunch of money.

however you can't really say i quit because i'll occasionally want a soda and will opt for a dr pepper, though very rare. and when i do drink that dr pepper it's like pure bliss, or something like that.

Post by **tnf** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:13 am

About the opiate receptors -

There are medications they can use to block the opiate receptors so that even if a person takes drugs, they won't get the high from them. There are also medications that can be given to almost instantly 'unbind' the receptors - I believe these are what they use in rapid opiate detox programs, but Saturn or Geebs would have to verify that.

Too bad there isn't some way to consciously control your body's own production of opiates...so you could sit there and say "damn, I'm depressed..I need some more endogenous opiods.." and then bam..opiates are flowing through your blood. Heh.

Post by **phantasmagoria** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:14 am

i got addicted to cheese for a little while...i was spending about £25 a week on it. I simply stopped buying it and as an added bonus started losing weight.

Post by **tnf** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:14 am

Testoclesius wrote:im totally addicted to being awesome :lol:

Ever fear withdrawal when you get old, or do you plan on carrying your awesomeness with you to the grave?

Post by **tnf** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:16 am

My main addiction right now is Red Bull. Must have at least 1 a day in the morning, before 7:30 am.

If I don't have it, nothing feels 'right' - and that is aside from the caffeine headache I get.

On the positive side - that is the only caffeine I take in during the day...my 1 redbull. I've cut out all other caffeinated beverages throughout the day.

Testoclesius · Post by **Testoclesius** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:18 am

tnf wrote:
Testoclesius wrote:im totally addicted to being awesome :lol:
Ever fear withdrawal when you get old, or do you plan on carrying your awesomeness with you to the grave?

im like a fine wine mate i only get more and more awesome as the days go on :lol:

Post by **LeonardoP** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:19 am

i was sort of addicted to smoking a reefer before going to bed, but i decided to quit that bout a month ago. didn't do it again since ( before bedtime that is

)

Post by **saturn** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:21 am

you have Naloxon which is a morfine-antagonist, but it works short so you monitor the patient.

Rapid detox is dangerous for opiate-dependant people. You need a long working opiate so they don't get those dips and highs from short-working opiates

Post by **LeonardoP** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:23 am

does anyone have a site with info on how the brain works? in respect to ways of storing information and subconcious/concious levels interacting.

Post by **saturn** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:24 am

btw, opiates reduce pain and dulls your senses, it won't make your depression go away.

Post by **LeonardoP** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:24 am

saturn wrote:you have Naloxon which is a morfine-antagonist, but it works short so you monitor the patient.

Rapid detox is dangerous for opiate-dependant people. You need a long working opiate so they don't get those dips and highs from short-working opiates

how come the detox is dangerous?

Post by **[xeno]Julios** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:25 am

i quit nicotine cold turkey after 8 yrs of being a full time smoker.

You need to believe that cigs are bad for you on a deep level. Many ppl know they're bad for them, but they don't internalize this surface cognition. For some people it takes coughing up blood to internalize this.

Best way to internalize, imo, is to carefully meditate on the issue. Reflect on each thought related to the substance. If one finds themselves rationalizing away ideas, one must catch oneself. You need good metacognitive skills for this (ability to monitor your own thought processes).

Knowing something is true logically does not mean the whole of the mind "knows" it. You need to despise cigarretes to succesfully quit, and real despisement cannot take place until the mind fully knows the horrible nature of the cigs & addiction.

There are many triggers that facilitate a craving for addiction - for me, my triggers were:

-having a good meal
-having a drink
-pool
-stressful state of mind
-need to go outside and think/take a break

so what i did was deal with the major ones individually. First week i stayed at home (didn't have a job/school during that month) and just ate 3 healthy meals a day without smoking. After that week my cravings had been reduced a LOT. Then i took my first walk downtown (lights and sounds were all stimuli) - and my lips started trembling with the nicotine craving. Again i forced myself not to smoke. Hardest one was celebrating bday with some friends at a bar in an outside patio. After that day, it was easy.

I came across these herbal cigs that are supposedly good for quitting smoking - they basically fulfill the habit of smoking minus the nicotine. Gonna get some for my sis.

Post by **losCHUNK** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:27 am

im waiting for this injection that stops you from smoking to be made

Post by **saturn** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:28 am

LeonardoP wrote:does anyone have a site with info on how the brain works? in respect to ways of storing information and subconcious/concious levels interacting.

go buy a book, like Neuroscience.
http://oas2000.proxis.be/gate/jabba.sg. ... 0878937250

Post by **tnf** » Mon May 16, 2005 1:28 am

LeonardoP wrote:
saturn wrote:you have Naloxon which is a morfine-antagonist, but it works short so you monitor the patient.

Rapid detox is dangerous for opiate-dependant people. You need a long working opiate so they don't get those dips and highs from short-working opiates
how come the detox is dangerous?

Short term detox can be dangerous because they take people who hvae been addicted to opiates for a long time, and, under sedation, use a drug that almost instantly frees all the bound opiate from the receptors in their body. This is quite traumatic for the body. I've heard stories of people dying during this procedure.

On the whole, opiates are not deadly to withdraw from in a normal fashion...just very uncomfortable.
Drugs like benzodiazapenes and alcohol can produce withdrawal symptoms that can be life threatening (seizures, etc.)