Honest to god discussion about Q4's graphics on a XB360...

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:09 am

First of all, the thread title says its about graphics. Second of all, its been posted by me. Which means if you come in here and spout off, its your own fault. If you dont want to hear what i have to say, fine, dont waste your time reading it all and posting shit.

Anyways...

Quake 4. Its coming out for the x-box 360, we all know this.

But will it be any good at all on it?

Quake 4, is a BASIC game. Sure, it has PPL, wow, but... Thats about it... It doesn't have many special effects, it doesn't have HDR or even bloom, it has low poly models. Even after the Doom 3 "imp trianlge head" problem everybody moaned and laughed at, they still for some reason are doing it to the monsters here, when we all have PC's that can run it....

Ok here is the deal. Like i said, Quake 4 is fine for us i guess, but NOT for the 360. You have games that look STUNNING, have HUGE res textures, massive polycounts on models, not a jaggy in sight and SOFT per pixel shadows. Look at the ghost recon 3 shots, they look stunning, and for a lauch title its impresive...

But don't you think Quake 4 will be seriously out of place here? Won't it look a tad "basic" to every other 360 game? kinda like how perfect dark zero does. Have you seen the new shots of it? It looks silly, like it could EASILY be done on the current x-box, just they want it to be a 360 title.

Anyways, what do you think? Do you think Quake 4, no matter how good/bad it may be, will be a game people will pick up and look at the back of the box and say "ugh?" because of everything else that they have been treated to?

Post by **saturn** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:18 am

neh

With the wireless netwerk capabilities and a free Xbox Silver it'll be a breeze for people to play online.

Look how popular Halo 2 is on Live

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:28 am

No no no, doesn't matter how fun it is, or even if its a good game.

X-Box 360 comes out. Hundreds of kids RUN to the stores. What do they buy, JUST from looking at the pics on the back? the game with realistic round heads, gentle not over done bloom and hundreds of people on screen at once, all in more detail than all of their old games combined, or the game with pointy heads, no special effects and the chance of seeing 4 people onscreen at once?

Post by **saturn** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:36 am

They will buy the franchise. Personally, I never buy a xbox-game solely based on photos I see on the back of the DVD cover.

Not everybody is so obsessed like you

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:40 am

saturn wrote:They will buy the franchise. Personally, I never buy a xbox-game solely based on photos I see on the back of the DVD cover.

Not everybody is so obsessed like you

Neither do i

But when its a new console, people tend to go for "what looks good" and not "what plays good".

I know i'll end up geting it on x-box as well, simply because as you said, its easier. Its more fun to sit in bed and play the game than sit at my PC freezing my ass off. Plus it will run it 100% silky smooth and while i'm sure my PC will cope fine with the game, I still have doubts sometimes with the new huge enviroments and brighter lighting.

Post by **saturn** » Sat May 14, 2005 9:53 am

That's the great thing about consoles, you don't have to worry about updates and having the right PR. It'll auto-update itself if you have Xbox Live, and everybody will since the Silver version will be free.

I wonder, since there are 2 USB 2.0 ports on the fron and one on the back, will developers make an RTS game for the xbox where you will need a keyboard mouse? I highly doubt it. Too much hassle for the average casual xbox gamer to buy an xtra keyboard

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:01 am

I'm hoping that the 360 doesa "PS2" on us for once... Cant believe i just said that... Anyways what i mean is that on the PS2 "ANY" USB mouse and "ANY" USB keyboard work fine. You just plug them in, and your sorted.

If this is the case on the X-Box, imagine playing FPS games using a mouse and keyboard... Bliss...

Shouldn't need to buy a new one, we have been using USB as standard for how many years now?

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:04 am

As for x-box live, yeah, everybody will be on silver. I already pay for live, do i get ANYTHING from the 360, i.e. a free update to the gold or something? lol

It should be very interesting. Games were only just unlocking the potential of live at the end of its live. Timesplitters 3 was the future of live, and it said very loudly "YOU NEED A GOD DAMN HARD DRIVE!!!". The ability to download hundreds, no, thousands of user made maps to your harddrive in seconds was great.

I just hope they dont get too careid away now. Just because you CAN update a game, doesn't mean you SHOULD. The only time a game should autoupdate is when there is a big bug/flaw, and if its released in that state anyways, there is a lot to sort out...

Post by **Grudge** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:09 am

As saturn said, they will buy the franchise.

And I'll wait until I see QIV running on an actual xbox 360 (in HD with AA) until I make my min up about it sucking or not.

Btw, I read in an interview somewhere that the Xbox 360 itself does support any USB mouse or keybord, but it's up to the game devs to decide if they want to support it for the game or not.

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:13 am

Once again grudge, i never said it sucked, i just said from the shots we have seen it seems a tad basic compared to other 360 games. While its gonna be the best looking game availible on the PC when it comes out, it looks like PC will once again be playing catch up for a few years like when the old consoles launched.

As for the "devs needing to add support" thats good and bad. Good because it means it wont get left out and we wont get shoddy unresponsive controls, but bad because it COULD mean some games forget it. But if its a first person game thats big (Halo 3, for example) i'm pretty much positive that they would add the ability.

The only problem now is how the fuck do you sit in bed with a mouse and keyboard!

BTW, any info on if you can browse the net with xbox live? You can do everything else, would seem odd not to have some kind of built in IE.

Post by **saturn** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:28 am

the developers said that internetbrowsing isn't a big priority for the 360 cause it's not really great for the living room and it would resemble a PC too much. I agree.

The wireless connectivity will own everything

Post by **Grudge** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:29 am

When asked if you would be able to surf the Internet as well, Mr. Henshaw responded, "The PC is better suited to that, and we aren't trying to make this into a PC. We've found that for most it's not an entertainment experience suited for living rooms." Another question prompted him to explain that USB mice and keyboards will be supported in the 360's dashboard (Xbox System Guide) but it would be up to developers and publishers to choose to support them in games. He speculated that most game designers would decide against this.

From Tom's Hardware Guide

Post by **saturn** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:33 am

o'dium wrote: I just hope they dont get too careid away now. Just because you CAN update a game, doesn't mean you SHOULD. The only time a game should autoupdate is when there is a big bug/flaw, and if its released in that state anyways, there is a lot to sort out...

Of course you should, if you want to keep playing with others online.
Remember all the fuss around the Q3 PR updates?

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:36 am

saturn wrote:
o'dium wrote: I just hope they dont get too careid away now. Just because you CAN update a game, doesn't mean you SHOULD. The only time a game should autoupdate is when there is a big bug/flaw, and if its released in that state anyways, there is a lot to sort out...
Of course you should, if you want to keep playing with others online.
Remember all the fuss around the Q3 PR updates?

What i mean is, us PC users get fucked sometimes because developers KNOW they can release a game and patch it later. They have the attitude where if there is a bug in a game, they wont delay it 2 more weeks, the ywill just release a patch. I dont want to buy a £40 game and then spend the first hour at home download new updates that fix issues that quite honestly play testers should of noticed in he first place.

Some things are obvious good things, like new media, maps and updates to weapons following play testing on a huge scale. But having to download half the game again because such and such made a mistake is not so good.

Post by **Mogul** » Sat May 14, 2005 10:37 am

The 360 can probably handle the game at Ultra Detail (or whatever) just fine. That should look pretty dang nice running at 60 fps, even among the other 360 games.

Post by **^misantropia^** » Sat May 14, 2005 11:54 am

o'dium wrote:I dont want to buy a £40 game and then spend the first hour at home download new updates that fix issues that quite honestly play testers should of noticed in he first place.

And they probably have. And it's probably on some bug list as well. Along with several hundred more. If you've ever done professional bug squashing, you'll know that it's a royal pain to:

a) replicate said bug (with all those hardware/software configs out there).
b) track it down through 1,000,000+ lines of code (usually you'll need to patch several locations too).
c) fix it and make sure it doesn't break other things now.

Bug fixing costs time: it'll easily take up the better part of a trimester. Time equals money and money is something companies would like, if not need, to see deposited on their bank accounts after the investments they've made in the last six to twelve months. In the end, games are nothing but business.

Post by **o'dium** » Sat May 14, 2005 12:20 pm

Yes, but on consoles, its a bit easier, your only coding for one piece of hardware.

Bugs that mess up every so often and are hard to fix, ok, fine. But sometimes, there are bugs that KILL the game.

Remember Tiger Woods 2005 on the PS2? They had to recall EVERY COPY of the game because picking a certain player would stop the game working.

Thats the kind of bug i'm talking about

Post by **booker** » Sat May 14, 2005 12:36 pm

got an idea, id software buys unreal engine 3 to make quake 4 !

Post by **R00k** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:11 pm

I don't think internet browsing would be good on consoles simply for the security risks. It seems like it would be way too easy for people to write exploits for consoles. At that point, you would have constant updates and patches released for the console, which would pretty much make it just like a PC.

Post by **Grudge** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:14 pm

yea, fuck that, if I want to browse the net I'd rather use my PC

Post by **Jackal** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:17 pm

Doesn't anybody else think that it's slightly too early for a whole new console? Personally, I think the average consumer isn't going to be willing to shell out that $500 or some odd dollars to buy the xbox360 when the original xbox is just barely out of the gates.

Post by **AmIdYfReAk** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:18 pm

its been out for 4-5 years...

Post by **Jackal** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:19 pm

Post by **AmIdYfReAk** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:20 pm

i was just making sure you got what you where sayin, so in your opinion 4-5 years is "just barely out of the gates"... allright.

Post by **Jackal** » Sat May 14, 2005 4:23 pm

OK myabe what I said was a bit of an exageration but we really havn't seen them flex the xbox's muscle at all yet. I mean I like video games but I'm sure as fuck not willing to spend over $500 on a console every 4 years just so I can keep up with the nerd wave.
Granted, some people will be but I'm sure a lot of people aren't willing to bend that way.