SCHÖNA [ALPHA 4]

[Martinus]

If you want to interest an area for bots, place there ONE botroam, then set the "weight" key (0-400, good values are between 100-300)

[CZghost]

Alpha 3 is up now. I did not include bot support yet, I am looking for scaling, layout and item placement feedback the most.
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/My%20maps/czq3tourney1/a3_ingame/czq3tourney1.jpg[/lvlshot]

If you like, you can set up a server to test online gameplay. Also, tell me whatever to include bot support or not yet, and tell me if I should start designing visuals and prepare for moving into beta or wait with texturing and detailing...

[Martinus]

It's still small a bit for me.
I see some empty places and walls were you could put something interesting (doorways or platforms) to improve your map.

That little "health column" is a bit familiar to me... I might sure, I saw that somewhere else, but I don't know where!

[CZghost]

It might be Tresspass by Pat Yes, I am inspired by Pat's work, so I might take some ideas from him - anyway - it's not copying as the surrounding is from scratch... I just liked the Pat's idea having a column with health on it and ported that in my map... Anyway, I'd add some visuals to the bare walls to make them less boring, but after the map will improve enough to start bother about the visuals. I might add some sidewalks behind the wall here with doors, just need some inspiration Anyway, it's a tournament map, which has to be small as it may hold two players only by default. Sure it can be played as classic deathmatch with up to four players...

[dONKEY]

The main atrium with the MH is a bit big for my eye.
You're are going to have a big problem detailing that. I guess it's scaled that way because of the stairs. I'd dump the stairs, because they are too steep, and far too many! This would enable you to reduce the long lines of sight in that area.
At the lower level, the passage ways are tight and labyrinthine. I'd think of a way to open these up.
The other atrium seems lacking thought. A series of gimmicks really.
I don't really understand the point of the lava pool. If you have some awesome extraneous detail in mind, then that's fine. I like pointless extraneous detail. If you don't, than that area is pretty pointless. No one likes traps, especially when they don't work.
It's a start. Keep going.

[CZghost]

Okay, so I will make the MH atrium smaller and remove stairs - replace them with jumppad. Then how to deal with the bare wall? Well, new corridor connecting with the second atrium. Enlarge tiny corridors a bit and make them less about being lost. I think I will replace the lava pit by a fog pit, but I do it maybe during visuals - think of a cavement void...

[Martinus]

Alpha 3 is up now. I did not include bot support yet, I am looking for scaling, layout and item placement feedback the most.
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/My%20maps/czq3tourney1/a3_ingame/czq3tourney1.jpg[/lvlshot]

If you like, you can set up a server to test online gameplay. Also, tell me whatever to include bot support or not yet, and tell me if I should start designing visuals and prepare for moving into beta or wait with texturing and detailing...

Put something on that wall wich is in front of the camera. That wall is just too empty.
There should be a doorway or hallway in my opinion.

[CZghost]

@Martinus: Well, this is the one that is disscussed there at the moment - I might add some sidewalks behind the wall. Maybe there will be some stairs and jumppad at the other side. Should I keep the fireplace? Should I place something below it? New doors?

Anyway I think about mix of natural cavements with high-tech features in visuals. And I might name the map temporarily Schöna (I was recently in eastern Germany - Sachsen, and I think it's nice name for a map)...

So I will jump to making such edits and see you with new version

[Martinus]

In my optinion:

Put on that empty wall a hallway, which ended in another bigger area. Connect that new area to where the lava with a jumpad is.
You will increase the size of your map, and keep it in tourney size as well!

Absolutely keep that fireplace. Everything like that could improve your maps looking. You should add more visulas to your map (in the future)

I can imagine a pit, or downstair at where the megahealt is (like a similar way in q3dm7 where the red armor is).
That can add more complexity to your map

...in my opinion!

I hope I helped you with my opinions!

[CZghost]

I am afraid that even now it's quite bigger than average tournament map is. As I said, I can add a sidewalk behind the wall, as you adviced it can be extended to the jumppad area, but I'd not add another large area, maybe some medium sized room belong the sidewalk. Thank you for the pit idea, player will be protected a bit from longlength sight grabbing MH, but still be vulnerable from above

[CZghost]

So Alpha 4 is up to date. Take screenshots and make annotations to better describe what do you mean.
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/My%20maps/czq3tourney1/a4_ingame/shot0001.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/My%20maps/czq3tourney1/a4_ingame/shot0002.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/My%20maps/czq3tourney1/a4_ingame/shot0003.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/76484093/Quake%203/Maps/My%20maps/czq3tourney1/a4_ingame/shot0004.jpg[/lvlshot]

The new outside area (with gray fog) should have more items, I feel. But now I don't know which. This area will become some external area and the fog of death won't be included in visuals state (or will be unreachable). There will be a skybox in outside. So, any ideas on how to make this one better? Meaning layout, item placement, newly optimising for bots and visuals?

I am now asking also for visuals, if I should stay with default q3 textures (with more details, of course) or find any suitable textures from some gaming sites or general texture sites? Evil-lair's texturesets would be used for tech part of the theme and Sock's nature texturesets for the natural cavement theme. Maybe some decals by Tabun and few easter eggs from CGtextures. Do you have better idea?

To conclude the theme of the map: it will be cobination of natural cavement with high-tech futuristic theme. Next Alpha would be textured with this new theme...

[Martinus]

I like the new area, the new place for the MH, and the teamed power ups, but those teleports aren't a good choice (or not like this how you used them)!
There's a lot of item you placed, but I didn't see any holdable... (I think, adding holdables or more power ups, or a lightning gun, can solve your item problem. If I were you, I would choose a holdable.)
In my opinion, you should use custom textures (like CGTextures, or any custom textures).
Try to add MORE of your own ideas / plans to your map for the next release.
Cavement with high-tech sounds good, do you have any other ideas / plans too?

Keep it up, I think, it will be good map when it's done!

[CZghost]

Maybe try to swapping the destination of the GL teleport to the MH area and delete the teleport in the new area. You see it, I completely forgot about holdables Will try both holdables and LG, will see if it shall work well...

From the time this map started I didn't have an idea on how it would look like further with visuals. I do not know how, but I suddenly had an idea of some futuristic base hidden somewhere in natural cavements. Maybe I saw a movie or what, I really do not know where I become to have that idea I named the map temporarily Schöna (a synonyme for "nice" and a name of a small town in Saxony (Germany), last I've been in Dresden on a trip and we rode by rail through this town I decided to give this name for a map Maybe the name will stay

I definitely include some easter eggs, I am fan of easter eggs There should be some computers, like they're in most of tech maps. There might be also some secrets, too. Anyway, the main theme will be the announced one. Thank you for your interest, I really appreciate that

[Eraser]

I like the 2nd screenshot, but it's a little open. Maybe add some high colums to give a bit of cover against railguns:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/af2ytv450pjmk ... t.jpg?dl=0

[CZghost]

As I said, the new open area will be enclosed and the fog of death will be unreachable or will be completely removed. And next release will be designed with custom textures and possibly with some custom models. Even now there are some pieces of design (let's name e.g. the grate above MH pit). I might choose some main textures of themes the map will use and post it here to decide. And I need to choose a decent skybox for the map surrounding...

I'm becoming to repeat myself, but I have to say again: The theme will be a futuristic high-tech features mixed within natural cavements. My inspiration goes from Rota's map themes (Marilyn the named one), I'd just use another texture scheme and make the theme more likely a facility being rushed and abandoned very quickly (so it should use more some rusty colors and more of green). I gave this release already a name, just to prepare the theme a bit. First I will modify the layout a bit, then I can start searching for some texturesets...

The map name in the log-in screen does not display the accent ö in the title Schöna for the reason that Q3 does not support accents... And next release will include bot support to make the map playable on Single player and it will include an arena file to make it loadable via Skirmish menu...

[Eraser]

As I said, the new open area will be enclosed and the fog of death will be unreachable or will be completely removed.

Really? I actually like it this way. Just needs a bit more cover so you don't get railed immediately after entering that area.

[CZghost]

I wanted to make it as some sidewalk, I just made it this way until I find any way to design it in the manner I originally wanted. Anyway I already need to tweak the layout. I tought about the sidewalk behind the wall connecting with the new passageway inside the massive structure and a staircase leading from the bottom door right next to the sidewalk. It will be wide enough to make quick movement possible.

This is a simple scheme of how it would actualy look like:

[CZghost]

So I ported it to 3D in Radiant (do you recognise the big window?) - Now I need to enclose it, add some items, compile last untextured version (for mine) and try to run it. Then I can start designing visuals

I downloaded a collection of hundreds of skyboxes from LvLworld and found a nice skybox from Hipshot, Grimmnight:

That made me thinking of making the map likely in night

[CZghost]

So the modified layout plays good, starting with designing visuals First I need to find good textures to use. I am thinking of Sock's industrial pack combined with Evil Lair's packs for the high-tech part of the theme and Sock's terrain and nature packs for the natural part of the theme. I might modify some contents to get some rusty looks on the metal textures and will need to make some models. I am going to use the Hipshot's Grimmnight skybox and see how it would deal with the theme itself

[AndyW]

Nice CZghost!
Socks Set is a good choice! The more i play around with it the more fun i have.

[Eraser]

CZghost, I hope we've kept you motivated enough to finish this thing.

[CZghost]

Thank you for suggestion, Andy

Eraser, be sure I am gonna to finish it whatever long it should take. But I finish it.

[CZghost]

Just started retexture Will need to plan out details: vents, girder supports, grate floors, railings, wooden crates, etc.

Textures are set to 0.125 resolution both wide and high on the brush surfaces, which makes these textures the same size like the original one, but higher quality. This is only one shot from editor processing the retexturing and detailing map construction, next will be WIP screnshots from ingame - visible will be parts that have new design. I will try out Hipshot's Grimm Night skybox to see how it works out, possibly I will need to rotate entire map to get it working properly.

[dONKEY]

You have a lot of repeating texture there. TBH, I never go below .25 texture scale, there seems (to me at least) no visible difference between .25 and .125 in terms of image clarity.
Anyways, just for your planing, you might want to think about breaking up those repeating textures. Either and detail trims, decals or structural details,
Also, whilst it's in my mind, don't forget you need to reduce the texture scaling on angled brushes to avoid texture stretching. It's a small detail most inexperienced mappers miss.

[CZghost]

dONKEY, I set up texture scale based in the original resolution. Sock's Industrial Pack is made to high-res textures, that have the biggest size 1024 pixels. This requires a lot smaller scale. I played with 0.25 but it seemed just still too large. 0.125 looks fine for me. There will be always mipmaps that decrease the texture quality as more as more far you are. The angled brushes might be replaced with rockwalls, as I said this is gonna be placed in some kind of caves. I just need to plan out the details the map should have. Maybe a small sketch on paper could help. This is gonna be a long run full of designing and tweaking. I think complete redesign and detailing is the hardest part of the level design. And I need inspiration, too. This might me searching for photo resources, search for photos from caves to see what the natural shapes are alike and search for photos from industrial sphere to see what some abandoned industrial building looks like.

I should avoid angled brushes as much as possible. I won't use 45 degree brushes that are likely to stretch the texture most. Instead I'd choose some smoother variant (patches are good)...