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Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 4:02 pm
by losCHUNK
The coverage of HSBC in Britain's Telegraph is a fraud on its readers. If major newspapers allow corporations to influence their content for fear of losing advertising revenue, democracy itself is in peril.

That was how matters stood when, on Monday of last week, BBC Panorama ran its story about HSBC and its Swiss banking arm, alleging a wide-scale tax evasion scheme, while the Guardian and the International Consortium of Investigative Journalists published their 'HSBC files'. All newspapers realised at once that this was a major event. The FT splashed on it for two days in a row, while the Times and the Mail gave it solid coverage spread over several pages.

You needed a microscope to find the Telegraph coverage: nothing on Monday, six slim paragraphs at the bottom left of page two on Tuesday, seven paragraphs deep in the business pages on Wednesday. The Telegraph’s reporting only looked up when the story turned into claims that there might be questions about the tax affairs of people connected to the Labour party.

After a lot of agony I have come to the conclusion that I have a duty to make all this public. There are two powerful reasons. The first concerns the future of the Telegraph under the Barclay Brothers. It might sound a pompous thing to say, but I believe the newspaper is a significant part of Britain’s civic architecture. It is the most important public voice of civilised, sceptical conservatism.

Telegraph readers are intelligent, sensible, well-informed people. They buy the newspaper because they feel that they can trust it. If advertising priorities are allowed to determine editorial judgments, how can readers continue to feel this trust? The Telegraph’s recent coverage of HSBC amounts to a form of fraud on its readers. It has been placing what it perceives to be the interests of a major international bank above its duty to bring the news to Telegraph readers. There is only one word to describe this situation: terrible. Imagine if the BBC—so often the object of Telegraph attack—had conducted itself in this way. The Telegraph would have been contemptuous. It would have insisted that heads should roll, and rightly so.

This brings me to a second and even more important point that bears not just on the fate of one newspaper but on public life as a whole. A free press is essential to a healthy democracy. There is a purpose to journalism, and it is not just to entertain. It is not to pander to political power, big corporations and rich men. Newspapers have what amounts in the end to a constitutional duty to tell their readers the truth.

It is not only the Telegraph that is at fault here. The past few years have seen the rise of shadowy executives who determine what truths can and what truths can’t be conveyed across the mainstream media. The criminality of News International newspapers during the phone hacking years was a particularly grotesque example of this wholly malign phenomenon. All the newspaper groups, bar the magnificent exception of the Guardian, maintained a culture of omerta around phone-hacking, even if (like the Telegraph) they had not themselves been involved. One of the consequences of this conspiracy of silence was the appointment of Andy Coulson, who has since been jailed and now faces further charges of perjury, as director of communications in 10 Downing Street.

Last week I made another discovery. Three years ago the Telegraph investigations team—the same lot who carried out the superb MPs’ expenses investigation—received a tip off about accounts held with HSBC in Jersey. Essentially this investigation was similar to the Panorama investigation into the Swiss banking arm of HSBC. After three months research the Telegraph resolved to publish. Six articles on this subject can now be found online, between 8 and 15 November 2012, although three are not available to view.

Thereafter no fresh reports appeared. Reporters were ordered to destroy all emails, reports and documents related to the HSBC investigation. I have now learnt, in a remarkable departure from normal practice, that at this stage lawyers for the Barclay brothers became closely involved. When I asked the Telegraph why the Barclay brothers were involved, it declined to comment.

This was the pivotal moment. From the start of 2013 onwards stories critical of HSBC were discouraged. HSBC suspended its advertising with the Telegraph. Its account, I have been told by an extremely well informed insider, was extremely valuable. HSBC, as one former Telegraph executive told me, is “the advertiser you literally cannot afford to offend”. HSBC today refused to comment when I asked whether the bank's decision to stop advertising with the Telegraph was connected in any way with the paper's investigation into the Jersey accounts.

Winning back the HSBC advertising account became an urgent priority. It was eventually restored after approximately 12 months. Executives say that Murdoch MacLennan was determined not to allow any criticism of the international bank. “He would express concern about headlines even on minor stories,” says one former Telegraph journalist. “Anything that mentioned money-laundering was just banned, even though the bank was on a final warning from the US authorities. This interference was happening on an industrial scale.

“An editorial operation that is clearly influenced by advertising is classic appeasement. Once a very powerful body know they can exert influence they know they can come back and threaten you. It totally changes the relationship you have with them. You know that even if you are robust you won’t be supported and will be undermined.”

When I sent detailed questions to the Telegraph this afternoon about its connections with advertisers, the paper gave the following response. "Your questions are full of inaccuracies, and we do not therefore intend to respond to them. More generally, like any other business, we never comment on individual commercial relationships, but our policy is absolutely clear. We aim to provide all our commercial partners with a range of advertising solutions, but the distinction between advertising and our award-winning editorial operation has always been fundamental to our business. We utterly refute any allegation to the contrary."

The evidence suggests otherwise, and the consequences of the Telegraph’s recent soft coverage of HSBC may have been profound. Would Her Majesty's Revenue and Customs have been much more energetic in its own recent investigations into wide-scale tax avoidance, had the Telegraph continued to hold HSBC to account after its 2012 investigation? There are great issues here. They go to the heart of our democracy, and can no longer be ignored.
https://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdo ... -telegraph

TLDR - News agencies are being run by advertisers (shocking) but I've shown huge balls to quit because of the refusal to talk about HSBC tax evasion after funding was pulled a few years ago from similiar stories.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:12 pm
by seremtan
losCHUNK wrote:News agencies are being run by advertisers
just this, more or less

Media Lens have pointing this out for years

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:29 pm
by losCHUNK
Aye, I think anyone with half a brain is aware of it. Game review sites are the most blatent culprits when it comes to advertisement bias and it's not hard to realise that it applies most major news networks. Cartoons and movies have been taking the piss out of it for as long as I remember n all, along with the antics of the Murdoch empire and their backing of firms / governments that suite their agenda.

I just think this guy deserves a golf clap for showing some bollocks, spose you could argue that he should have stood down long before but respect where it's due and gives us a nice little insight into the Telegraphs dirty laundry. I honestly didn't know anything about the HSBC scandal until it was revealed recently and to think this was swept under the rug over 2 years ? ago by the Telegraph it is a bit of a wake up call, especially when considering the measures they took to keep it quiet from a firm that was meant to be a fairly reputable source.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:34 am
by scared?
Who the fuck cares about this nobody?...

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:51 am
by xer0s
Can we get a tl;dr?

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:53 am
by feedback
tl;dr: telegraph withheld political and breaking news content due to their advertisers relations with companies/countries. Barclay bros. lawyers got involved with their HSBC reporting and screened them.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:13 am
by scared?
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 4:39 am
by HM-PuFFNSTuFF
This is a pervasive and critical issue. A free citizenry relies on an independent press. Without it the news becomes propaganda.

Things are utterly fucked.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:38 am
by syp0s
The real issue here is the people's failure to recognise or differentiate between news and product. Someone delivering you content isn't necessarily delivering you news.

The telegraph is a product that is packaged just like any other. Same as the Daily Mail, and just as culpable as the Guardian when it comes to pandering or being selective with their content.

It's up to us to recognise when we're drinking shit (cola), and when we're being delivered a product (all of print media). Print media is as much of a product as any drink or confectionary company, and we aren't asking them to be strung up, because we're educated about the perils of eating shitty foods. It's time we got educated on the perils of expecting businesses to deliver us the information we think we want, and then holding them responsible for it when they don't do it.

The Telegraph did nothing wrong in withholding the information, they are duty bound to product their business interests and their clients.

The world seems to think it's owed the truth. I've never understood that.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:35 pm
by seremtan
what a steaming pile of horseshit

the claim to provide credible and truthful reporting is a major selling point of the media as a product. if they fail to do that, their business interests take a way bigger hit than they would by pissing off some advertisers, since no one will trust their content any more. this is why the Telegraph doesn't just come out say "we suppressed the HSBC story because they pay us fat stacks", because their readership will plummet, and no readership = no ad revenue = no business
The world seems to think it's owed the truth. I've never understood that.
probably because the world doesn't think that, so there's nothing to understand

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:49 pm
by syp0s
I love how aggressive you start out. INTERNET! Definitely adds to your credibility as someone I should take seriously.

Again, they don't owe you anything. If you open a newspaper looking for truth, you're either stupid, or you're looking for something to get angry about. I suspect it's a little of both.

You clearly don't understand the difference between content and news, and you don't have the slightest clue about how any of these platforms work. I do, because I work for and with content providers on a daily basis. News breaks all the time, and alongside that, content is created. There's no grand conspiracy - the stuff that creates the most clicks rises to the top. Whether that be news, such as a shooting, or content, such as a shot of a celebrity.

Newspapers owe nothing to their readers, and neither does the media. It offers a product, and you either engage with it or you don't. Their narrative is based on the key factors they've identified among their current customer base.

They offer readers a lens. they choose what that lens focuses on. For you to get annoyed because they aren't focusing on what YOU consider important is utterly hypocritical.

I couldn't give the slightest shit, I mean not the most minuscule fathom of a fuck about what rich people are doing with their cash in Switzerland. So the fact that they suppressed it is fine with me, because they'll have been a ton of other stuff they suppressed that day that you'd not blink at.

I promise you you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Honestly, just trust me on that one. You know nothing.

All armchair lefties love to pretend they've got a handle on this grand conspiracy, but to anyone who actually works in advertising or news media, you look like fucking dumbasses.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:13 am
by Eraser
Thing is, newspapers all claim to be independent news outlets that cover the news without any form of bias. If we assume that none of the media outlets can be trusted to a certain extent, then we've lost something quite important.

This stems from a history of media and journalists being pretty much the watchful eye over others so that the general populace can inform themselves about what's happening and form their own opinions. In countries where the media is completely state controlled, people can't form their own opinion because not all information reaches them.

It may be naive to assume that the (western) media is unbiased and neutral in whatever they report, but it is a sliding scale. And if advertisers are dictating what goes in the newspaper and what doesn't, then we're heading in completely the wrong direction.

Neutral media is important. To lose that is an issue that should be taken seriously. The discussion about the current state of media neutrality is also a valid one, but doesn't invalidate the importance of neutral, unbiased media in general. Newspapers are supposed to be more than just a commercial product and they owe that to their readers as long as they are not clear and upfront about who dictates what goes in and what doesn't. That's the issue here.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:27 am
by syp0s
I get you, but again, its no different from any other product supplying you with a positive brand narrative. Coca Cola is the quintessential example of it; their brand is about living life to the fullest, pushing the limits of freedom, and the message is associated with the consumption of the beverage itself. The reality is that it's a can of cinnamon flavoured sugar water.

You're totally right about the importance of a neutral media, and it's there if you know where to look. you won't get neutrality from the Guardian, the BBC, or Daily Mail. Three companies all representing a different frequency on the political/social spectrum.

Advertisers don;'t necessarily dictate what goes into a newspaper, but a newspaper is (rightly) careful to consider its content based on the balance of generating revenue in order to maintain its cashflow, and creating or reporting content most likely to resonate with its demographic/audience. Often, those things are mutually exclusive.

Fundamentally, given the amount of information created each day, it's impossible for a newspaper to be neutral. Content choices must be made. The people who seem so unable to grasp this are armchair lefties who find outrage at every conceivable thing.

Also, let's not forget that the article in question, namely the reporting of HSBC WAS made by the Telegraph. The issue is the amount of headline space it was given. Too little for some, but plenty if you're an HSBC ad exec.

The moral is that if you read the newspaper with an eye to figuring out what is going on in the world, then you're extremely naive. If you get angry about the content of print journalism, then you've gone from naive to ignorant.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 9:36 am
by syp0s
Also, who says they're supposed to be more than just a commercial product? I mean, where is the legislation for that?

That is opinion. It's purely an editorial concept. There's no mandate that states a newspaper should be completely neutral.

This is what I meant by the world thinking it's owed some kind of universal truth by print media. The media started as a propaganda tool centuries ago, and no point in history has it ever been about advancing the truth.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:37 pm
by Ryoki
So you're basically saying all information should be distrusted since all parties supplying information have commercial interests. And since they're businesses like any other it's only natural to prioritize those commercial interests above their classic role of informing the public, people who believe otherwise are being terribly naive. Is that about right?

Gotta say that's an incredibly pessimistic way to look at media and their role in society. I fully agree with seremtan's take on this and would be interested to read an actual reply from you on his very valid point... because unless i missed it somehow, you seem to have failed to adress it. Bringing legislation into the argument seems entirely nonsensical, noone is arguing that there's laws that say newspapers have to tell the truth. It is widely expected the serious newspapers do exactly that though, for the reason seremtan provided. I'm finding it very curious you seem to think that's not the case. To me, the issue seems to be that the newspaper in question just disqualified itself from being a Serious Medium - which is a huge problem for a newspaper: no credibility = no subsciptions = no advertising revenue.

PS i too have worked for both printed media as well as content providers back in the day, so hey.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:46 pm
by seremtan
syp0s wrote:*internet grrr*
i haven't paid the slightest attention to this story or made a single comment on it until this thread - and for what it's worth i don't even consider it that important in the grand scheme of things. the whole issue of tax avoidance was a non-issue until the financial crisis hit; it's just another example of people having a sudden moral conniption fit over something they didn't give a shit about yesterday. i was quite content with just pointing out that pleasing their advertisers is what the media do - until you rolled in like an angry Neo to tell the world that we're all trapped in the Matrix and that you alone have seen the truth. cynicism is a steaming pile of horseshit because inside every cynic is an idiot who thinks that because he's 'seen some shit' down the rabbit hole he's smarter than everyone

serious question: why did you re-register on this forum? i really want to know. you've told us all these stories about how sweet your life is, making fat stacks, busy, starting a family etc, and how you've moved on from the days of sitting around all day smoking weed and posting on here - but you seem to be exactly the same angry person you were 10 years ago. it's weird, because you seemed pretty mellow a couple of years ago when you were posting in the photography thread. i'm just wondering what made you come back here and revert to your internet tough guy persona

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 12:49 pm
by seremtan
Ryoki wrote:Bringing legislation into the argument seems entirely nonsensical, noone is arguing that there's laws that say newspapers have to tell the truth.
yeah, this was what struck me about his reply too: there's no law that says newspapers have to be anything better than comic books for 'smart' people, so let them be comic books.

there's also no law against farting in a lift or parking in a disabled spot either. doesn't make someone who does those things any less of a cunt for doing them

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:09 pm
by syp0s
seremtan wrote:
i haven't paid the slightest attention to this story or made a single comment on it until this thread - and for what it's worth i don't even consider it that important in the grand scheme of things. the whole issue of tax avoidance was a non-issue until the financial crisis hit; it's just another example of people having a sudden moral conniption fit over something they didn't give a shit about yesterday. i was quite content with just pointing out that pleasing their advertisers is what the media do - until you rolled in like an angry Neo to tell the world that we're all trapped in the Matrix and that you alone have seen the truth. cynicism is a steaming pile of horseshit because inside every cynic is an idiot who thinks that because he's 'seen some shit' down the rabbit hole he's smarter than everyone

serious question: why did you re-register on this forum? i really want to know. you've told us all these stories about how sweet your life is, making fat stacks, busy, starting a family etc, and how you've moved on from the days of sitting around all day smoking weed and posting on here - but you seem to be exactly the same angry person you were 10 years ago. it's weird, because you seemed pretty mellow a couple of years ago when you were posting in the photography thread. i'm just wondering what made you come back here and revert to your internet tough guy persona
I haven't seen anything, I just happen to work in the industry that we're discussing, so I have an actual understanding of how things work, versus people who don't, but think they do. Same way I believe I have a pretty decent understand of car mechanics, but would defer to someone who is actually a mechanic.

Assuming your question isn't rhetorical, I'll answer: I've not told you or anyone any stories about how sweet my life is, or how much money I make. The real issue here is your insecurity, Seremtan, which is why in the event that someone opposes you, you try to paint them as having some kind of latent character flaw or act like they have anger issues. I don't think anyone really gets angry on the internet anymore, do they? Really? You think the last response I made contained anger?

I mean, take now for instance. You can't even manage a simple debate without having to try and delve into the personal psyche of the person you're debating with. Who really cares why I'm here? I'd say the bigger question would be not why I came back, but why you stayed. For a decade.

Chill, brother, hit some weights.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:11 pm
by MKJ
Interholy. If it weren't for raw's intercrush you would have stayed for the past decade too.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:29 pm
by syp0s
Ryoki wrote:So you're basically saying all information should be distrusted since all parties supplying information have commercial interests. And since they're businesses like any other it's only natural to prioritize those commercial interests above their classic role of informing the public, people who believe otherwise are being terribly naive. Is that about right?

Gotta say that's an incredibly pessimistic way to look at media and their role in society. I fully agree with seremtan's take on this and would be interested to read an actual reply from you on his very valid point... because unless i missed it somehow, you seem to have failed to adress it. Bringing legislation into the argument seems entirely nonsensical, noone is arguing that there's laws that say newspapers have to tell the truth. It is widely expected the serious newspapers do exactly that though, for the reason seremtan provided. I'm finding it very curious you seem to think that's not the case. To me, the issue seems to be that the newspaper in question just disqualified itself from being a Serious Medium - which is a huge problem for a newspaper: no credibility = no subsciptions = no advertising revenue.

PS i too have worked for both printed media as well as content providers back in the day, so hey.

Now, yes, I am KIND OF saying that, but it's obviously not that black and white. I think the majority of commercial media has a business interest and a profit motive at heart. I think that much we can agree on. For that reason alone, I think anything which has a vested interest of any kind must be inherently distrusted, unless you yourself can confirm without question that you are the vested interest. I suppose these are the basic principles of Stoic philosophy applied to an abstract social construct. Definitely pessimistic of me, but not negatively or actively so. I don't live my life distrusting the media, because I work in it (like you have done), so I suppose I engage with it in a different way, and I don't see it as something I'm up against. I'm moving with it.

I'm not sure what point I haven't addressed. I switched off after Seremtan's peculiarly aggressive opening, and only skimmed what he wrote beyond that.

To bring up your penultimate sentence, though, I understand exactly what you're saying, and I don't necessarily think you're wrong for saying it. What I'm saying is that I don't believe any of the newspapers are actually TRYING to be "serious mediums" these days, as you put it. I think they stopped doing that in the 1980's. Shit, maybe even before. What you really have are groups of people telling the other group that they aren't serious. You've got the Guardian making fun of right wing newspapers, you've got all of privately owned media making fun of the BBC, you've got the BBC acting like "neutral" means giving equal airtime to both sides of the argument, even if one side is utterly ridiculous/evil. Every single one of them wants to be taken seriously, but I don't think they are necessarily selling you the truth, they're just selling you their truth. That can't be argued, surely? Otherwise all newspapers would carry the same content, in the same order, written by the same people.

For me it didn't disqualify itself. I don't read The Telegraph, but the fact is I just don't care about tax evasion. It doesn't bother me in the slightest, so the fact that it got no headline and only a lip service mention is fine with me. So in that sense, were I obliged, I'd still be able to personally qualify them as a serious medium.

However, by my own rules, any newspaper that dedicated even one single line to any professional sporting event would automatically discredit itself.

Have I done anything to make my point clearer? If not, quote the part you want me to explain and I'll be glad to.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:32 pm
by syp0s
MKJ wrote:Interholy. If it weren't for raw's intercrush you would have stayed for the past decade too.
I mean, I can't say either way. In that decade I probably made two attempts to contact raw or Dave to get unbanned, but mostly I don't think you or I particularly care about it. If you did care, I doubt it would be that difficult to contact either of them and find out how much I beseeched them to let me post here.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:39 pm
by feedback
For what it's worth, I wholly 100% disagree. I choose which news articles I read based on the reputation of the source. i.e. I'm not going to read articles from RT, CHINADaily, or VOA about any event even tangentially related to their interests if I can find something from a reputable source.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:39 pm
by syp0s
feedback wrote:For what it's worth, I wholly 100% disagree. I choose which news articles I read based on the reputation of the source. i.e. I'm not going to read articles from RT, CHINADaily, or VOA about any event even tangentially related to their interests if I can find something from a reputable source.
Who sets the reputation, and how do you know what goes on behind closed doors?

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:47 pm
by feedback
syp0s wrote:
feedback wrote:For what it's worth, I wholly 100% disagree. I choose which news articles I read based on the reputation of the source. i.e. I'm not going to read articles from RT, CHINADaily, or VOA about any event even tangentially related to their interests if I can find something from a reputable source.
Who sets the reputation, and how do you know what goes on behind closed doors?
The reputation is earned by from others and finally by my own judgement call based on their reporting. During the 2009 riots in East Turkestan, for example, you wouldn't find any coverage of the event in a Chinese newspaper. Why? Because they are under strict control of the government. So why would I read them, or any other newspaper which operates under a strict order of what they can and can't cover or even reference? A newspaper that intentionally avoids critical events in order to paint a different picture of reality is one that I wouldn't wipe my ass with.

Re: Peter Oborne - Why I have resigned from the Telegraph

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2015 1:50 pm
by feedback
It's also an unfortunate reality that there really isn't one singular news source that you can trust for news without a bend, so you have to read 3-4 articles from specialty sources just to get decent information on anything other than recipes for food.