Quake3World

Here's a great Schneier article on the prisoners' dilemma as it applies to doping in sports:

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2012/10/la ... al-sports/

In the end, doping is all about economics. Athletes will continue to dope because the Prisoner’s Dilemma forces them to do so. Sports authorities will either improve their detection capabilities or continue to pretend to do so, because they depend on fans and associated revenues. And as technology continues to improve, professional athletes will become more like deliberately designed racing cars.

Bit harsh :S

About the doping, it happened and it's going to keep happening as the doctors find other ways to hide the drugs. I just hated the way Armstrong was such a wanker with it.

However, i'm surprised he beat genuine cunts in some local hate contest. Just goes to show how popular cycling has become over the last few years.

Collective minds following a sport because we all of a sudden got good at it ?, sounds more like a flock of sheep than a fan (not aimed at anyone on here)

Doombrain wrote:About the doping, it happened and it's going to keep happening as the doctors find other ways to hide the drugs. I just hated the way Armstrong was such a wanker with it.

However, i'm surprised he beat genuine cunts in some local hate contest. Just goes to show how popular cycling has become over the last few years.

Sorry mate, no way is he more deserving of that than Abu and Jimmy
The bloke cheated at cycling but did rape any children and did plan on killing loads of innocent people in the name of some fictitious bearded wanker.

I wonder how many lives Armstrong saved as a result of the charity work he did...

I wonder how many lives were saved as a result of Jimmies charity work :/

Child rape and molestation vs Some drugs on a bike

Aye I got that point and agreed, just charity work has fuck all to do with making a situation better if what youve done is rape kids or say its ok to cheat by abusing your body with drugs

Don Carlos wrote:

Doombrain wrote:About the doping, it happened and it's going to keep happening as the doctors find other ways to hide the drugs. I just hated the way Armstrong was such a wanker with it.

However, i'm surprised he beat genuine cunts in some local hate contest. Just goes to show how popular cycling has become over the last few years.

Sorry mate, no way is he more deserving of that than Abu and Jimmy
The bloke cheated at cycling but did rape any children and did plan on killing loads of innocent people in the name of some fictitious bearded wanker.

I wonder how many lives Armstrong saved as a result of the charity work he did...

err, i agree with you?

Point taken

Doombrain wrote:

Don Carlos wrote:
Sorry mate, no way is he more deserving of that than Abu and Jimmy
The bloke cheated at cycling but did rape any children and did plan on killing loads of innocent people in the name of some fictitious bearded wanker.

I wonder how many lives Armstrong saved as a result of the charity work he did...

err, i agree with you?

OMFG YOUR NOT EVEN LISTENING FFS WTF

bit late for abu hamza, tbh

as for doping, i couldn't care less. i'd love to see someone run the 100m in under 9 seconds, even if they pumped themselves full of nandrophenobarbitulutoprenic hydroacetyloxylysergodrone to do it

seremtan wrote:bit late for abu hamza, tbh

as for doping, i couldn't care less. i'd love to see someone run the 100m in under 9 seconds, even if they pumped themselves full of nandrophenobarbitulutoprenic hydroacetyloxylysergodrone to do it

i agree i would like to see a superiod Olympic!

theyre doing it anyways its not like they need convincing

perhaps they should force him to change his name to Lanced. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Here's what I don't get, if Lance Armstrong beat everyone else in a sport where every single competitor is cheating, doesn't that still make him the winner?

yes

obsidian wrote:Here's what I don't get, if Lance Armstrong beat everyone else in a sport where every single competitor is cheating, doesn't that still make him the winner?

As far as I'm concerned, yes.

The pitchforks & torches attitude towards Lance Armstrong is pretty baffling. Yeah, he fell from his pedestal, yeah he could've handled the thing differently and yeah, it's uncool that he used banned performance enhancing techniques. However, in my eyes his 7 tour victories still stand for something, because basically anyone that mattered in those years used it. So in the end, the playing field between the top athletes was basically level and that means Lance Armstrong is still the best of all of them.

Another misconception people have these days is that doping will turn you from a loser into a super star sports athlete. It just doesn't work that way. All these cyclists already are super start sports athletes. The best of the best. It's just that the doping gives the athlete that last nudge he needs to win.

It was a sarcastic/rhetorical question, but thanks for the write-up.

If you ever watched Armstrong win, he usually won big - as in with a pretty big lead, with double the determination. What he used to win was beyond mere performance enhancing techniques, he was just a bar above everyone else (plus, he was made a few grams lighter on those hill climbs by having only one nut). Does he deserve the 7 tour victories? Maybe not, he cheated, but then so did everyone else. What he didn't deserve is to be burned at the stake.

So yeah, what u said.

Well, the whole 'everyone is doing it so it's ok' thing doesn't quite work for me. but there's a bigger issue at hand ;
Apparently, the doctor supplying the drugs is the go-to guy in the sport, and he testified that Armstrong paid him off to give him better drugs than the other guys that went to see him. Now this is simply akin to slashing the other riders' tires before the race, ie flat out cheating.
The fact that he had a bet running on himself doesn't help matters either (winning x Amount of tours in a row netted him a few extra mil)

Imo if you're forced to play by some bent rules, at least stick to those rules. Don't bend them yourself.

why accept testimony from a guy who is bought and paid for by the highest bidder?

wouldn't his credibility be in question geez

It's not just him that's mentioned it's a problem in the sport ?, I'm sure I heard that Brit guy who won medals, Cravendish ?, say as much when he was having his own jip at Lance. It would'nt surprise me either, you see stories surrounding athletes in the Olympics n stuff and they seem to get away with it, assuming it's true of course.

With that said, if it was that easy you'd think it'd be a problem in every sport ? (Football, Rugby etc) but you barely hear stories about performance enhancing drugs surrounding the players lives in those sports ?.

Cheating though should be the worst thing you can do in any sport and any sport should be doing it's best to get rid (short of chopping someones head off), cos otherwise it's pointless watching the sport as the results become irrelevant in an un-even playing field. If he gets anything short of a lifetime ban then the sport is a joke, he was advising other riders to pump themselves full of whatever shit and if something is that obvious why wasn't it stamped on sooner ?. It's all well n good making an example out of one of the leading culprits but if the problem is still their then it's nowhere near fixed and the 'example', I think, is just to draw attention away from that :/.

Think there's a flip side too, I mean this guy lost a nut and still went on to screw with his body for success, that's a completely fucked up mindset, same as the athletes who watch their peers snuff it due to respiratory or heart complications in their 30s/40s and still think it's ok to do it themselves.

Why the hell should anyone assume that pro athletes aren't complete idiots? They aren't curing cancer and they'll never be brain surgeons.

These people aren't all there is my point.

I seriously under estimate the level of stupid on this planet sometimes

Just trying to make the point that him winning 7 titles doesn't make his achievement worthless, it makes the achievement itself worthless really

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