Quake3World

I could finally convince myself to come up with an aplha version of my map q3ct3 - kosmos.
There is not much detail yet - for now I'm wondering about the layout.

Screenshot:

[lvlshot]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6716/q3ct3.jpg[/lvlshot]

Download:

http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3.zip

I recommend to play the map in cpma, tourney.

- cityy

Please update your pk3 with all the missing files:
For better feedback

oops, those textures are actually in the pk3 - just forgott to sort them in the right folders :S

Link updated: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3.zip

Sorry for my fault

!WARNING! The reply below is image extensive.

So far, the layout is really good. Though, i have many tidbits on this version.




[lvlshot]http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/3876/shot0005va.jpg[/lvlshot]

A stray brush.

[lvlshot]http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/6448/shot0008f.jpg[/lvlshot]

I don't know... this teleporter looks boring.

[lvlshot]http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/6316/shot0013gt.jpg[/lvlshot]

You probably need to fix that.

[lvlshot]http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/7356/shot0007al.jpg[/lvlshot]
[lvlshot]http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/3383/shot0010a.jpg[/lvlshot]

I am not a fan of this path, it just looks pointless.

[lvlshot]http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4742/shot0011b.jpg[/lvlshot]

I would make this path a bridge.

[lvlshot]http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/7867/shot0012b.jpg[/lvlshot]

If this window was really open, the upper half would be concrete and the other half is open to the LG room.

Now this is rocket-jump time!
[lvlshot]http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/4425/shot0009ad.jpg[/lvlshot]

I could see myself using that window as an ambush route.

[lvlshot]http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1184/shot0014jw.jpg[/lvlshot]

I can rocket-jump from the window ledges.

[lvlshot]http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/4708/shot0018h.jpg[/lvlshot]

There too.

[lvlshot]http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/8133/shot0015.jpg[/lvlshot]

You should really need to cauld that place over there and clip it off.

[lvlshot]http://img16.imageshack.us/img16/4593/shot0016h.jpg[/lvlshot]

Still on the roof, Missing texture.

[lvlshot]http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/1974/shot0017.jpg[/lvlshot]

Was this place supposed to be something before?

The "stray brush" is probably a trick jump, from the RL area you may be able to actually directly reach the RG opening. Only in vQ3 I don't seem to have the skill to do that (just noted the map is for CMPA, no wonder ).

Some comments:

• As a tourney map - playing Xaero on Hardcore - the map works relatively well, but since it is, IMO, needlessly spread out a bit you need some time to find the opponent at times.
• Overall the map is quite horizontal with two levels. The MH at the map center works well. I'd suggest you introduce a 3rd level in your map, select the complete YA area (near the PQ), and bring the lower end of stairs up to the PG level, placing the YA even higher. Try to drape the map arround the MH as central focus, this should help to concentrate the map, and add more vertical action.
• You have to duck for the RG... this is *slow* not so sure this is so good. If you actually can trick-jump directly to the RG, then this is OK (sorta), but alas no good for vQ3.
• Another issue for vQ3 are the boxes that let you reach the PG... well in vQ3 you cannot overcome the last jump... this is kinda frustrating. Xaero that cheater seems to have a bit of botclip help. He can climb those cubes backwards!
• Xearo also cheats when accessing the RG directly, I think (did not see it). But I wonder how he got the RG. Did you add a bot-only spawn point in the RG "room"?
• I am not a really tactical player, but "the back area" of the map, corridor from LG right up to the JP leading to the RL, is pretty dead. Here the draping around the MH area should help the map a lot, IMO.
• I know this is dumbing down the map, but when on the RL side, you jump to the PG side, the bot will not make it... maybe add some planks/bridge here. As a "skill" test this is too easy for CPMA anyway, because even I in vQ3 can make it always . Though I suspect when on the RL side, you can jump from the YA to the PG side as well, in CPMA.

Before you add further details to the map, I'd suggest more work on the layout... deco can then be added more "permanently" once the gameflow is done. Hope this helps.

@ tehSandwich:
As AEon mentioned below your post this stray brush is an alternative way to the RG. It will become some kind of lamp/torch later on.
You may not find clip/caulk brushes anywhere since I'm currently on the layout of the map. Tho you've mentioned a lot of things that are wrong with the visual style of the map - gonna remember that later on. I'm not sure how I want to make the teleporter look like, maybe you got some suggestions?!

@ AEon:

My problem with adding a 3rd floor at this place is that the stairway would become very long and there would have to be another way up to the YA which would slow down IMO - tho, I'm gonna think about how to solve this..

I'm also not sure about the way to the RG - thought about some kind of hole through which you can drop down to RG. Anyway,
I also like the idea that you have to duck since it doesn't make you that slow because of the slick brush at the entrance.

Didn't notice that VQ3 boxes problem yet - only play the map in cpma. Will be fixed tho. Yes there is a bot clip, otherwise bots wont get up to the PG since they dont take the jump pad and the teleporter :/

No, he doesn't cheat there and there is no bot spawn either some time ago I spectated a bot duel on the map seeing xaero going for the RG the regular way, what tbh really surprised me! Uriel also goes for the RG as far as I noticed.

I don't really get how you mean draping arround the MH!? You mean giving players another reason to use this corridor? Atm I thought about this corridor to be a good place to respawn since your have LG/RL/MH/YA right next to the spawn.

I thought about that a lot - as you said it's just a tele jump in cpma and a single circle jump in vq3. Since tehSandwich has also mentioned it I'm pretty sure I'll add that planks/bridge.

Before you add further details to the map, I'd suggest more work on the layout...

That's what I will do, ty both helped a lot

I just ran through this for about 15 minutes. I haven't actually played a game but here are some things I noticed. (A lot of these competitive tourney concepts are *VERY* new to me, so bear with me, and help me out by correcting me if you see a fault in my logic.)

- The flow of this map seems like it should be a little more circular. The YA area by the LG (which is kind of a U-turn) is a great little example of what it feels like for me to run the whole map. You start somewhere near the core area (the MH), enter a branching pathway, get an item, and then come back to the center area after running some sort of semi-circle path. I agree with AEon that the map should drape around the MH more, and the "drapes" should flow with each other. Basically, try connecting all these little secondary loops more. Things will still focus around the MH without actually forcing players to constantly return to that area.

- About the levels, I also agree with AEon. I was wondering why I was able to completely learn the layout after running two laps around it. Then I realized it's only two perfectly flat levels. This makes the map easy to learn but it's also very boring and cripples its lifespan. I don't think you need to add an entirely new third tier to the floorplan, but you should at least vary elevation a bit. A good place to start would be the (kind of weak) PG level. Raise it a few 64s to give it an advantage over the very strong RL area that needs more weak points.

- Right now your major armor items are two YAs and an MH. This is probably going to result in one player grabbing the MH and YA near the LG and the other getting stuck with just the YA near the RG. You may want to make the YA near the RG an RA if you find this creates too much imbalance.

- I think the area closer to the RG needs another weapon for the recently spawned player. Imagine how easy it would be for someone to camp the RL and cut you off completely from the rest of the map. I think a secondary SG would be perfect right in the center of that YA room.

- Health is scattered evenly about the map in the form of 25s. This reduces health and recovery strategy. Lately in my maps I've been trying to figure out the places where players would naturally run to recover. The ideal place is usually somewhere with cover that is easy to escape to. I find these places and put a solid amount of low-risk, easily accessible health there. The rest of my map gets health in more open, high-risk areas without much cover. So players shouldn't have too much trouble getting the high-risk health when no one is around, but if they need to replenish their health in the heat of the action, they have to escape to the recovery area, where they aren't such easy targets.

- You should caulk your alphas. Not for performance, but to make it easier to noclip up to the top of the map and study it from a bird's eye view. This way people can get to know the map quicker, take screenshots, and maybe highlight certain areas for you. Right now most of the map is blocked by the textured ceilings.

P.S. Q3W is telling me you responded to AEon after I started writing this. So just pretend this post came before your response because I haven't read it yet.

I just ran through this for about 15 minutes. I haven't actually played a game but here are some things I noticed. (A lot of these competitive tourney concepts are *VERY* new to me, so bear with me, and help me out by correcting me if you see a fault in my logic.)

I'm pretty much newbie here too

A good place to start would be the (kind of weak) PG level. Raise it a few 64s to give it an advantage over the very strong RL area that needs more weak points.

I love this idea - pretty sure I will do this!

- Right now your major armor items are two YAs and an MH. This is probably going to result in one player grabbing the MH and YA near the LG and the other getting stuck with just the YA near the RG. You may want to make the YA near the RG an RA if you find this creates too much imbalance.

Gonna think about that when major layout is finished. I will keep it in mind.

- I think the area closer to the RG needs another weapon for the recently spawned player. Imagine how easy it would be for someone to camp the RL and cut you off completely from the rest of the map. I think a secondary SG would be perfect right in the center of that YA room.

I also agree with this point! Didn't think about that yet. I'm also unsure about the spawn points in that area - maybe some1 can give feedback!?

- I'm currently pretty fine with the position of the 25s. I was thinking about +5s but I couldnt get a clear opinion about where to place them.

- You should caulk your alphas. Not for performance, but to make it easier to noclip up to the top of the map and study it from a bird's eye view. This way people can get to know the map quicker, take screenshots, and maybe highlight certain areas for you. Right now most of the map is blocked by the textured ceilings.

Going to do that.

Update:

http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3_alpha2.zip - Alpha 2

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/shot0001.jpg[/lvlshot]

Added planks at TP exit.

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/shot0002.jpg[/lvlshot]

PG area is a little bit higher now.

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/shot0003.jpg[/lvlshot]

Some changes here - now a JP leads to rg. YA is on a higher level. Added a GL.

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/shot0004.jpg[/lvlshot]

Yout have to drop down to RG now.

[lvlshot]http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/shot0005.jpg[/lvlshot]

Fixed the boxes.

Other Changes:

Replaced the YA at PG with a RA - added caulk - changed some 25 positions.

Not sure about:

Spawn points, alternative way to the RG, the RA and other things...

- cityy

I seem to be "messing" into quite a few maps lately... hmm... anyway :

• I like those planks, they connect the map better for the bots, and you can now jump from the YA window onto the planks leading to the PG. Low-skill for pros, but "fun" for the rest of us.
• You might like to add more botclip to let Xaero climb those boxes to reach the PG. Presently he does not seem to be able to get up there, and that messes with the bots AI, AFAICT. The bot does not seem to use the JP nearby.
• I'd add 2x25 spread out where the SG is, i.e. under cover, to let the player gain health, should the MH be gone or too dangerous to grab.
• This is a bit radical, but IMO, the long paths from the RG room to the MH, are simply too long. You may want to move the closer edge of the RG room, looking from the MH, to were the YA presently is. Thus very much compacting the map in that area. You'll need to move the stairs etc, but that should be possible.
• After compacting you might even want to move the RG room *under* the map. E.g. under the GL, around there, create a hole to jump down into the room, and then TP out of that room again. Anyone camping/hiding in that room gets hit by the GL from above. Might even cover the ceiling of the small RG room with grates.

@ AEon:

You might like to add more botclip to let Xaero climb those boxes to reach the PG

Gonna do that.

The bot does not seem to use the JP nearby.

I also noticed bots don't use any JP and the teleporter neither. Anyone knows how to make them notice the JPs/TP?

I'd add 2x25 spread out where the SG is, i.e. under cover, to let the player gain health, should the MH be gone or too dangerous to grab.

I thought about adding a 25 at the stairway. I think 2 would be too much since there is already one 25 on the way to the RG.

This is a bit radical, but IMO, the long paths from the RG room to the MH, are simply too long.

My problem there is that I dont want the YA level to become too small. I'm pretty fine with the size of the ya room atm. I also think that making this corridor shorter would encourage the player to use it more often - IMO grabbing the MH, then passing the LG, going up to the RL and having a lot of new possibilities what to do is better or saver than using the long corridor leading to rg room. Since ppl may not use the LG way that often making the way to rg room shorter would totally kill the path near the lg. That's what I think.

To your suggestion to the rg room:

I think this would make it really dangerous to take the rg. IMO you already can pretty much controle the rg room with nades. It's even easier in cpma since the cpma nades fly further and explode later than the vq3 nades.

Don't stop to "mess" please =)

What do folks think about spawn points and the RA? Any other feedback?

I need some help. As I mentioned earlier in the thread I'm wondering what makes bots use jumppads.
After some research I know now that bots may use a jumppad if it's the shortest way to get an item.

My problem is here:

[lvlshot]http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/8324/shot0003tj.jpg[/lvlshot]

Bots don't take this jumppad - even tho there are two ammo boxes and the PG on this upper area. When I played q3dm6 I noticed that bots also take the jumppad from MH up to the RL or the JP up to the RG - why don't they take the JPs in my map then?!

Some help would be great

-cityy

Do you know about item_botroams? They are like fake entities that only bots can see and you can set the weight of them based on how high of a priority they should be for bots.

Some ideas:

• Possibly the JP destination entity is not high enough above the upper ledge.
• Or it slams the bot into the upper ledge.
• Using a botroam entity is very problematic, because it badly messes up the bot's AI (most of the time). But worth one test.

botroams are finicky things. I had to use a few in my quicke alpha to balance each other out. One botroam tends to unbalance the bots behavior and they'll often ignore good weapons in favor of the lesser weapons closer to the botroam.

Play with them. You'll eventually find the equilibrium needed to get the bots running right.

Made the jump pads work - thanks everyone for the help. Just want to finish this map now - I discoverd that I'm not that good in creating textures and working on visuals but here is a screenshot of what I'm currently doing:

[lvlshot]http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/6324/q3ct3vis.jpg[/lvlshot]


I'm looking forward to an update soon. Don't have much time because of school..

Well I love your red light (Andromeda texture set!) and the tubes in the background.

Ye, just downloaded the set after you featured it in your template textures thread - thank you for that
Imho, the Andromeda texture set looks wierd in combinition with socks tech textures - tho I love both and this light textures fits the map's sheme very well. Also got the idea of orange/red lights from the andromeda set.

My biggest problem atm is the YA room - it's so open. I find it hard to make it look interesting. Looking forward to a screenshot today.

EDIT:

Screenshots:

[lvlshot]http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2440/q3ct3vis3.jpg[/lvlshot]

The way down to the RG.

[lvlshot]http://img339.imageshack.us/img339/3842/q3ct3vis2.jpg[/lvlshot]

The LG room - I will add some more lights here soon. Choice of textures is also not final yet.

[lvlshot]http://img128.imageshack.us/img128/2514/q3ct3vis4.jpg[/lvlshot]

The room of all my problems... Any ideas what todo here?

BTW:



I would like those little light spots to send out light - would it be possible to do that with a shader?

turn down your ambient light level, its missing contrast

Wow, I totally forgott that I was still using ambient light Thanks fkd - lowerd it to 15.

That's what it looks like now:

[lvlshot]http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/7126/q3ct3vis6.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img86.imageshack.us/img86/9668/q3ct3vis7o.jpg[/lvlshot]

Sorry for the image spamm today

Some thoughts:

• 1st shot in the group of 4 above: Your hole in the floor could use some sort of edge texture (i.e. trim). The cut into the metal grate floor looks a bit "unfinished" as it is.
• Same image: The vertical "tube-ish" texture looks good as trim on the left/right wall, but "splashing" all three walls surrounding the hole with this texture less so. I'd suggest using a different texture/set of textures here.
• 3rd shot of 4: The problem shot. Some things to try: Add a row of vertical tubes on the right side of the wall leading the camera. The idea would be to make the path up there less wide. IMO, presently is it clearly *too* wide. Another thing you can additionally try, is to add some more floor deco to help reduce the monotony of the floor area. You might need to have to do something in 3D, but we'd need a more recent update of the map to be able to provide suggestions.
• 1st shot in the group of 2: You will be using a patch on the right side ceiling, right? Instead of those angles brushes?

Nice lighting!

@ AEon:

1st shot in the group of 4 above: Your hole in the floor could use some sort of edge texture (i.e. trim). The cut into the metal grate floor looks a bit "unfinished" as it is.

Yep, I agree, gonna use the same texture as for the other levels trim.

Same image: The vertical "tube-ish" texture looks good as trim on the left/right wall, but "splashing" all three walls surrounding the hole with this texture less so. I'd suggest using a different texture/set of textures here.

I will think about that - for now I can say that I share your opinion but I can't say yet what I will do.

3rd shot of 4: The problem shot. Some things to try: Add a row of vertical tubes on the right side of the wall leading the camera. The idea would be to make the path up there less wide. IMO, presently is it clearly *too* wide. Another thing you can additionally try, is to add some more floor deco to help reduce the monotony of the floor area. You might need to have to do something in 3D, but we'd need a more recent update of the map to be able to provide suggestions.

I will try the tube thing. Yea, I know giving feedback from screenshots is kinda hard. No school the next 2 weeks - that means that I will release a new version within this time.

1st shot in the group of 2: You will be using a patch on the right side ceiling, right? Instead of those angles brushes?

Yes, I will This was just a cloned brush from the top RG area. *lazy*

Thanks - I'm doing my best

I would like to add a custom skybox to the map or just try how it looks like but I can't get it working..
I downloaded the skybox collection from lvlworld and choose myself a skybox I like. My problem is that I don't know how to place the textures after I placed the shader in the scripts folder Tryed different ways but I don't get how to place it the right way.

/me feels so noob right now

I spent some minutes to think about your suggestions - see the result:

[lvlshot]http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/7738/q3ct3vis8.jpg[/lvlshot]

Vertical tubes looked weird to me so I decided to do it like this. Replaced the ugly brushes with patches; also added trim to the area above the RG room. Gonna make the tubes in the wall shorter soon. Also thinking about JP textures atm - I don't know much about shaders but I would rly like to add JP decals like they are done in SolarAE or in Hipshot's maps.

Off for today, cya

-cityy

New stuff Added some more height detail.

[lvlshot]http://img70.imageshack.us/img70/8803/q3ct3vis9.jpg[/lvlshot]

Still, some more tweaking needed here but you can already see in which direction I want to go.

[lvlshot]http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/2339/q3ct3vis10.jpg[/lvlshot]

Reworked the tower and added some more tube stuff.