Quake3World

I completed spirit3t3 today. It's a map designed for CPMA tourney.

The map has gone through 6 beta versions, especially the RA area has been changed quite often. Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions and comments here, at the promode.org forums and elsewhere.

Screenshot:



direct download link (~11MB):
http://maps.sp1r1t.org/quake3/spirit3t3/spirit3t3.zip

More info and screenshots can be found here.

The .map files are included and GPL'd.

changes beta6 final:
* removed useless (clipped) lava at lower level
* moved SG and added +25H at lower level
* changed entrance to RA room (again) to reduce long LOS at lower level
* added pillar and height differences at lower level
* further improved lighting in RG/LG room (adapted shaders)
* fixed nasty bug that allowed you to shoot through glass above RA

Also tried this one out. Nice. Only real problem I was concerned about was how to get into the lower level. Unless I missed something the only way in there are two holes in the floor that drop down to a JP that wants to bring you back up. I mostly managed to avoid stepping on the jump pad when I droped down, but it was close. Required too much prep when actually fighting.

Nice level with lots of twisty and vertical gameplay that also has good flow. Again good work.

This ended up turning out good =) Everythings all lined up..cleaned up very nice. I'm still a little sceptic of the double-jump where you hit your head against the ceiling of the square in the wall to grab a rg ammo =o I guess if you like it.
I'm mostly impressed with the lower part of the map..specifically the RA room/lower hallways. I love the e6 and e8 textures. :icon25: The LG room w/ the glass looks good too.

This map has a number of issues as well as small tweaks to consider. At this stage I'd call it a rough diamond.

The systematic issue is the teleporters, I don't know if you follow competitive Quake 3 (bear with me, anyone can abuse this and it sucks) but watch games on ztn3dm1. When one player has a lead they'll often just run the clock down by sitting by the low teleporter by YA and teleport away when the opponent approachs. It's very risky to follow and wastes a ton of time trying to hunt down the opponent. This is more a problem with 1-way teleporters but can also be done with 2-way by making exits too risky to bother following with grenade spam.

When you could have used stairs or a reasonably short corridor don't use a teleporter. Linked to this issue, look at the little mini-corridors you've left by teleporters. What are they for? They add too many hiding places to the map. When you enter an area you need to be able to check it for silent, hiding enemies in a reasonably short amount of time. The more little hiding nooks you add the more the game slows, keep the map clean and relatively simple. If you want some hiding spots limit the number and intend them for that purpose.

Railgun and LG are far too close together, seperate the 3 top tier weapons more than this, especially the 2 hitscans. The RG platform is too small and the little walkway is a very unnatural method of reaching it. Make the jump to railgun shorter and remove the tiny walkway, it looks like an inelegant solution. The jump to RG needs to be possible with +forward and jump only, every item must be reachable by a newbie. Tricks should provide shortcuts, generally not whole routes (a route is something the +forward, +moveup only newbie can deal with).

Still not feeling the glass at all - why not allow interaction between the two levels even if you can't move between them from LG to RA? It'd be much better as a grid with gaps or something.

The HL2 and AK-47 decals clash with the Q3 techno-future vibe.

The map would be more interesting without the ramp jumps from LG to the top level. You devalue the bouncepad route a lot by adding these. Depth comes from sensible limitation, this gives positions value and allows strategy (if there are too many potential paths the strategy dissolves into nothing because you cannot meaningfully predict).

For the same reason I'd recommend removing all the ramped light fittings in the Mega room, you can go from the bottom to the top with them easily.

For some of the wall decorations and certainly the exposed pipe floor decoration consider weapon clipping it flat. If it's big and consistant it's fine to leave as it is if you think it adds something to the game (in terms you can describe with an example situation, nothing wish-washy). If the geometry could not be used helpfully in a fight you'd probably be better off removing it or clipping it clean.

Bounce pad to the LG room from the RA level - generally if you +forward onto a bouncepad and then don't touch any keys you should land at the bounce pad destination. At the moment you bounce a few times and end up on the lower level again. Same for the other pads I think.

The theme of the dungeon area and the top level clash somewhat, you've got techno and grubby industrial themes.

The RA room would be much more interesting with a 2nd entry point from the SG area.

The decorative stairs from the mega area going towards the tele by bouncepad don't do anything - remove or justify. If something that interacts with players isn't doing something positive it's probably negative. This goes for the other little height changes like bounce pad decorative surrounds.

This initially feels like an over the top and fascist approach until you take a level and cut out all the irrelevances, then play on it. It makes levels surprisingly much more fun to play on. If you're going to do something like a change in height do it with authority (enough to matter) or don't do it.

Thanks heaps for the feedback, ix-ir!

Though I consider this map final, it's of great value for me. I'll consider them for my next try on a tourney map, and I'll make a version of this map that implements some of your suggestions to compare gameplay on the 2 versions. Maybe I'll publish it.

The small walkway to RG is for the bots, btw. They are too stupid to to +forward-only jumps to items and there's a botclip allowing them to walk to RG. The small walkway exists solely to reduce the (correct) impression that bots are air-walking to RG. ;-)

I'm short on time now, but I'll think more about this and maybe come up with another version sometime.

OK, found some time and came up with this:

download spirit3t3a (rc1, 11MB)

Everything ix-ir suggested and some other minor things were changed:

changes spirit3t3 spirit3t3a:
* replaced the 2 teleporters between PG and LG with a short corridor
* removed mini-corridor leading to upper teleporter
* removed useless stairs at upper teleporter
* switched PG and LG positions to seperate RG from LG
* made RG platform bigger (thus making the jump to RG shorter)
* replaced glass above RA with grid to allow for interaction between the 2 levels
* removed decorative pipes in the floor at top level
* removed glass at all weapon markers
* removed lights at lower level of MH room that allowed ramp jump to upper levels
* removed concrete ramps in new PG (former LG) room that allowed ramp jump to JA and RG
* adapted jumppad targets so you'll land on the target spot without having to use air control (all JPs)
* sank JPs into the ground (no height difference from floor anymore)
* added 2nd entry to RA room from SG area
* added curves in a couple of places
* added botclips to allow bots to go for RG/LG ammo in MH room
* removed blood decals except for teleporter exits
* adapted lighting in MH room
* more clipping on the lower level
* made +25H near RA TDM-only
* fixed a spawn point (needed rotation)

I think the map feels better than before, especially the second entrance to the RA room and the grates instead of glass were a good idea.

Let me know what you think about it!