Quake3World

Is there any rules for item placement?
What do you think about it?

I saw a lot of maps with very bad items positioning, YA near RA, RG near RL and so...

When I start a map I use to place RA to the opposite side of the YA and maybe an heavy weapon near the YA(LG or RL) and a difficoult handling weapon near the RA(PG or SG or rarely a GL). RG should be difficoult to reach if you rush for the RA, you should spend time to get it. I use to place MH in the middle with an easier way for the player who controls the YA.

I'm not saying that all maps should be like this...



/me curious about your opinion!

Generally I like maps whose layout makes it impossible for anyone, even the best of the best, to cover all important item spawns. The player has to make a choice, he might go for MH+RL but lose out on the RG. Or Maybe he could get that megahealth but he would have to leave that precious armor be for the opponent.
Summary: Good players can have their advantage but total domination is a nono

I agree, another interesting thing is to try to make more than one path.

Yes, point i forgot is evasion. Although a few critical points where gameflow comes together are needed I think that between these points should be plenty of room for a 'safari' in which the weaker player is hunted but can still hide a bit.

Survivor wrote:Yes, point i forgot is evasion. Although a few critical points where gameflow comes together are needed I think that between these points should be plenty of room for a 'safari' in which the weaker player is hunted but can still hide a bit.

hide? like you did in that city map we played on?

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

Survivor wrote:Yes, point i forgot is evasion. Although a few critical points where gameflow comes together are needed I think that between these points should be plenty of room for a 'safari' in which the weaker player is hunted but can still hide a bit.

hide? like you did in that city map we played on?

He was not Hiding...he was looking for secret areas!

Secret areas? I wasn't hiding juggz, I just knew where you were going to be. You should ask crink for the vids of me vs him on that map.

so...when?

When what and seperate topic for keeping this forum clean of our apocalyptic battle taunts.

Too much health. Few things suck harder than maps where a player can run from the fracas and tank up from 1 to 100 HP in three seconds. You usually end up in a "attack retreat replenish rinse repeat" cycle.

^misantropia^ wrote:Too much health. Few things suck harder than maps where a player can run from the fracas and tank up from 1 to 100 HP in three seconds. You usually end up in a "attack retreat replenish rinse repeat" cycle.

good point!

Try looking for wviperw's competitive design guide for some good tips. Unfortunately, the only copy I can find is this one in wiki form, but a little broken (missing pictures and diagrams).

http://www.promode.org/wiki/index.php/C ... sign_Guide

Hmmmm, thinking on item placement I think some maps work great when there is an element of risk to successfully picking an item up.

For example .... Until the end of time by Kona (The tourney version) and Evolution by Summatra aka TheFury remain amongst my favourites because they contain just such elements .... the red armour though not hard to get is overlooked in both cases by the rail gun making it a risk.

I find such maps always induce a greater level of excitment and have a certain replay desireability.

FoRa!

Each weapon should have it's own area on the map. Eight weapon...eight area's. Some people like to put two weapons together in an area. A small map for example...would require this to be done. Weapon placement should go along with the architecture of the map in a way that the weapon works good within the area. Some people like to put grenade launchers at the top of a incline to offer the ability to shower the players with death from above.
Sometimes putting a railgun in a wide open map can be a poor idea, as it turns the map into a run for the rg...with a king of the hill concept, without a hill.
PlasmaGun is good in tight area's, as it's a poor gun for long range fire.
It's good to keep ammo on the opposite side of the map, to offer the ability to refill the weapon without having to go all the way back...which is a pretty common sense thing I suppose. If the opposite side ammo is too far away, then putting closer ammo to the weapon to balance the length of travel to the next ammo on the other side of the map is good....like how many rockets are you gonna shoot on your way to the next ammobox..


Health and armor should be balanced in a way that it matches the maps player load.. 2, 4, 8, 10 players etc.
Strong weapons should be put in places that are vulnerable spots, which endanger your ability to protect yourself indefinitely. In other words you have to work your ass off to get that weapon.

Putting the Regen next to the MH is a terrible idea. <<That can be translated in many different way with many of the items. BFG next to RL, etc., etc.

place the most powerful weapons and armour where the player is most vulnerable.

place small health and shards in areas where camping can happen for sound cues.
works as a deterent to camping

maps don't really need all the weapons and powerups ..use of quad should be avoided unless the map is designed for a frag fest.

I recommend taking a look at cpm3a for a textbook item layout. Height dominance, "weight" distribution, all accounted for. It's a really formulaic item layout. You'll find those patterns in all successful maps. Of course they will rarely be as clear-cut as in cpm3a since maps have inherently different layouts and flow, the balance and rules still apply though.

Survivor wrote:Secret areas? I wasn't hiding juggz, I just knew where you were going to be. You should ask crink for the vids of me vs him on that map.

We need a rematch too, homo. See how you are after all that trem...

Here is a nice working version of WviperW's item placement guide ^^

http://www.goodstuffmaynard.com/portfol ... index.html

He's alive!!?

;P

o.Ob Meeeebe yes....meeebe no. Yeah, sorry I have been such a ghost. Forum creeper ftw!

Raven wrote:Here is a nice working version of WviperW's item placement guide ^^

http://www.goodstuffmaynard.com/portfol ... index.html

Really nice guide!


...except for the grey font color over the white background...
...my eyes are cryin'

Is it really that hard to read? I 'spose I could change the font color to something darker..

It is ok Imo, but it would be easier to read if the text was a wee bit darker.

wviperw wrote:Is it really that hard to read? I 'spose I could change the font color to something darker..

!!! I thought this great tutorial was lost forever since the article got "lost" on promode.org. The wiki version was a bit of a comfort but without pics, it's very hard to visualize.

I don't think it's hard to read. I think it's a must read.

Ok, well I darkened the text color *just for you* A1yssa. :P I also went through and updated/took out some old links that were there so it should be almost like new now!