Quake3World

Power of prayer flunks an unusual test
Large study had Christians pray for heart-surgery patients



NEW YORK - In the largest study of its kind, researchers found that having people pray for heart bypass surgery patients had no effect on their recovery. In fact, patients who knew they were being prayed for had a slightly higher rate of complications.

Hrmm....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12082681/

maybe they were bad people that god wanted dead anyhow.

The quote about god not changing his plans for a research study in that article...

that's what I find ridiculous about debating this with prayer warriors. they pray for something and it doesn't happen - 'oh well that's god's plan'.

They pray for something and it does happen - 'god is great...what a miracle...amazing grace hallelujah holy shit kumbahyah!'

God

tnf wrote:The quote about god not changing his plans for a research study in that article...

that's what I find ridiculous about debating this with prayer warriors. they pray for something and it doesn't happen - 'oh well that's god's plan'.

They pray for something and it does happen - 'god is great...what a miracle...amazing grace hallelujah holy shit kumbahyah!'

It's called enjoying not having to form independent thoughts.

Look at the poll associated with that article.

Here's my prayer:

Dear omnipotent, omniscient and benevolent creator,

Please change the physical laws of the universe for the benefit of <myself | family | friend | other person>.

Thank you, your humble servant.

P.S. Your haste would be most appreciated.

I thought there had been other studies that showed prayer did help.

I guess having non-correlative results is the same as having negative results, in this case.

there have been, I believe. And there have been surveys of surgeons who have expressed their own belief in things beyond their own powers of explanation or any sort of physical basis.

That's neat, cause I've heard so many "studies" claim otherwise and I was always pretty skeptical.

Praying is never going to directly impact the real world. However, there are still advantages for people who pray if they believe doing so will grant them strengh because it may end up giving them self-confidence, which comes in useful in sporting events in particular. Don't underestimate the impact a person's psychological condition upon entering an event may have on his or her performance, and if the belief in the idea of praying is a way to raise one's self esteem, it may just have an impact.

Am I making sense or...?

KingManULTRA wrote: Am I making sense or...?

Perfectly!

Walallalallallaalllaaaahh.....BOOM!!!

werldhed wrote:I thought there had been other studies that showed prayer did help.

I guess having non-correlative results is the same as having negative results, in this case.

There was one really large study that I've read about several times, and its results pointed to the idea that prayer helped people in surgeries - even people who didn't know they were being prayed for.

Probably almost a year ago now, I remember reading that that study had been conducted under very suspicious conditions, that the control group had been somehow manipulated, and that the author had a history of trying to forward the idea of religion in the medical field or something like that.

In other words, I read that it was bunk.

This study gives me a really warm, fuzzy feeling.

Nightshade wrote:

tnf wrote:The quote about god not changing his plans for a research study in that article...

that's what I find ridiculous about debating this with prayer warriors. they pray for something and it doesn't happen - 'oh well that's god's plan'.

They pray for something and it does happen - 'god is great...what a miracle...amazing grace hallelujah holy shit kumbahyah!'

It's called enjoying not having to form independent thoughts.

Or you could call it heroism

R00k wrote:

werldhed wrote:I thought there had been other studies that showed prayer did help.

I guess having non-correlative results is the same as having negative results, in this case.

There was one really large study that I've read about several times, and its results pointed to the idea that prayer helped people in surgeries - even people who didn't know they were being prayed for.

Probably almost a year ago now, I remember reading that that study had been conducted under very suspicious conditions, that the control group had been somehow manipulated, and that the author had a history of trying to forward the idea of religion in the medical field or something like that.

In other words, I read that it was bunk.

This study gives me a really warm, fuzzy feeling.

That's probably the same one I was thinking of. I hadn't heard about it being debunked, though, but that's probably because I didn't pay it much attention. I think I just heard about it and said, "huh, that's interesting," and then just forgot about it.

It doesn't make a difference, though, because no scientific test will ever convince the people it really needs to convince -- namely, the ultra-conservatives. *Sigh*... Oh well...

you noobs god wont fall for such practice of ingenuine prayer

he only answers to wholeheartedly sincire cries for help

besides the obvious humor in this, the study is clearly a mockery

who is to say someone's research related prayer for a surgery patient couldn't also be sincere?

And what happens when God doesn't answer a sincere prayer?

Haha!

tnf wrote:who is to say someone's research related prayer for a surgery patient couldn't also be sincere?

And what happens when God doesn't answer a sincere prayer?

they must'of missed communion last sunday

tnf wrote:who is to say someone's research related prayer for a surgery patient couldn't also be sincere?

And what happens when God doesn't answer a sincere prayer?

did you hear? god has a divine plan for all of us. So we can't be praying to him all the time asking for shit like destiny to be changed all the time, that's why he doesn't awnser back. Cause it doesn't fit in the big scheme of things.

tnf wrote:who is to say someone's research related prayer for a surgery patient couldn't also be sincere?

And what happens when God doesn't answer a sincere prayer?

i'm not exactly the religious type but that would be impossible to verify.

i think the prayer needs to go along the lines of being sincere of course, then it needs to be unselfish and more of asking for strength rather than just "poof" make the bad thing go away.

why, cause someone mortal said so?

*poof*

*clownshoes*

actually, im about to start a systematic review on the effectiveness of spiritual beliefs on health care outcomes and quality of life measures, so will follow up on this paper thanks

There are a heap of studies across faiths that show some positive and some negative outcomes, I want to see if I can synthesise these in to anything conclusive either way. Have not decided how to manage sub groups at this stage tho....

uh if you knew anything about real chritianity besides from mickey mouse phony christians who dont know what the bible is really about then you would know that according to real christianity, prayer does not change your situation

stocktroll wrote:uh if you knew anything about real chritianity besides from mickey mouse phony christians who dont know what the bible is really about then you would know that according to real christianity, prayer does not change your situation

what happens if you do it three times in a row and rub your lucky testicle?