Well i been wanting to get back in shape for years and i used to lift a lil last century, but stopped when the company redid the weight room and fucked it all up.
Anyway...
I just picked up a nice lil bench and a 300pd " olympic " set of weights or whatever. Basicly im just trying to figure out some sorta work out pattern and eating habits.
Basicly im not looking to be huge, but a few extra pounds of muscle and a few less pounds of fat wouldnt hurt. Im really looking to increase stamina and endurance. I wanna elevate my fitness so i can surf better and feel better in general.
So what kinds of foods should i be eating?
How much should i work out, meaning, should i do chest and arms one day and legs another or should i mash them all together.
How do you keep your energy levels up ?
I guess thats a good start. Thnx for any replies.
Looking for health advice.
-
[xeno]Julios
- Posts: 6216
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 1999 8:00 am
i can only speak from personal experience, so it'd be irresponsible to generalize.
What I can say is that HIT did work marvelously for me, though I sense it has its limitations. Basically I go twice a week to the gym for 25 min each. I do three exercises on one day, and a diff three on the other. I do 2 sets of each exercise, and use a weight which I fail after 5-8 reps. Then I up the weight incrementally each session or two. It's very heavy lifting and very brief. Low volume and low frequency (one exercise a week). Emphasis on rest and nutrition. I get my cardio from cycling and volleyball.
HST (hypertrophic specific training) is also a well researched body of ideas ( http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html ). I find it to be a good resource, if only because the guy behind it (bryan haycock) is a dude with integrity and fairly well educated.
Sleep and general mental health are fundamental. Diet also. You want to eat consistently healthy food.
If I were you, I'd work towards eliminating junk entirely. This means most fast foods, candy, pop, processed foods. Learn to appreciate the beauty of natural and healthy foods, and you'll find your taste growing away from unhealthy foods. Course this involves a bit of self brain-washing.
If possible, work towards a situation where you are purchasing all the raw material, and constructing your meals from them.
You want a good balance of macronutrients: carbs, protein, fats. And you don't want to skimp on your micronutrients (vitamins, minerals, etc.).
The key is to figure out a way to consistently have your hands on the raw materials - you need to get into a regular shopping routine.
About exercise, try a few diff things, but stick with it for a while to see what works.
What equipment do you have to work with? Do you have any access to a makeshift chinup or dipping bar?
What I can say is that HIT did work marvelously for me, though I sense it has its limitations. Basically I go twice a week to the gym for 25 min each. I do three exercises on one day, and a diff three on the other. I do 2 sets of each exercise, and use a weight which I fail after 5-8 reps. Then I up the weight incrementally each session or two. It's very heavy lifting and very brief. Low volume and low frequency (one exercise a week). Emphasis on rest and nutrition. I get my cardio from cycling and volleyball.
HST (hypertrophic specific training) is also a well researched body of ideas ( http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/hst_index.html ). I find it to be a good resource, if only because the guy behind it (bryan haycock) is a dude with integrity and fairly well educated.
Sleep and general mental health are fundamental. Diet also. You want to eat consistently healthy food.
If I were you, I'd work towards eliminating junk entirely. This means most fast foods, candy, pop, processed foods. Learn to appreciate the beauty of natural and healthy foods, and you'll find your taste growing away from unhealthy foods. Course this involves a bit of self brain-washing.
If possible, work towards a situation where you are purchasing all the raw material, and constructing your meals from them.
You want a good balance of macronutrients: carbs, protein, fats. And you don't want to skimp on your micronutrients (vitamins, minerals, etc.).
The key is to figure out a way to consistently have your hands on the raw materials - you need to get into a regular shopping routine.
About exercise, try a few diff things, but stick with it for a while to see what works.
What equipment do you have to work with? Do you have any access to a makeshift chinup or dipping bar?
Last edited by [xeno]Julios on Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Guest
Here's my brief take -
Until you've trained long enough to experiment a bit with different training methods and seen which gives you the best results for what it is you are after, don't put all of your eggs into one basket (all of these methods should have some basic commonalities like giving your body enough time to recuperate - although that time is an area of debate, there are some minimally 'accepted' lengths in that you won't seen anyone saying to train more frequently than them.)
When I started training about 13 years ago I pretty much went straight to a bodybuilding magazine and started taking workouts right from them. Made quick gains initially, because your body always takes off when you first begin hitting the weights hard. But I hit a plateau, and it wasn't until I really got into taking a more analytical and dedicated approach to the whole thing that I really got the gains I wanted. I've done pretty much every iteration of the 3 on 1 off or the 4 on 1 off, or the 2 on 2 off, or the 3 on 1 off 1 on 2 off, or the 5 on 2 off training splits there are...
Jules swears by the HIT, and it seems like he's made good gains from it. Some pro-bodybuilders (Mike Mentzer, Casey Viator - both from the 70s and early 80s...even Dorian Yates to some extent) have used training methods similar - but not identical to the way it is described by Jules and his resource.
If you want to gain muscle and want to avoid overtraining, then you should basically be doing as much as it takes to get that hypertrophic response going without creeping into overtraining. That is a fine line, and perhaps one that is best found for you as an individual by starting with a lower volume and increasing this volume until you start to notice your gains are stopping or you are too fatigued.
If I were you I wouldn't jump into HIT until you'd built up some experience in the lifts and gotten the muscles and joints ready a bit - since it espouses the use of heavy weights.
So, here's what I'd do for a month or two - a very basic, cut and dry, bare bones plan with the sole purpose of getting you a base of lifting experience and some muscle upon which you can build from.
Start each workout with a 10-15 minute warm up - walk around teh block, a light jog, get teh blood flowing. Then 5 minutes of stretching or so - NEVER STRETCH BEFORE WARMING UP.
There are thousands of routines that would work for what I think your goals should be in this first month or two - it could be a simple circuit routine that has you hitting your uppper body one day, your lower body the next, cardio the next, and then repeating the cycle...
I'm going to give you something right off the top of my head that would involve high to moderate numbers of reps. This is by no means the only plan that would work.
Day 1 - Chest/Triceps/Front delts
Flat Bench Press - 1 warm up set of 20 reps or so, light, focus on form. We can go over the correct form later, it is critical though.
Follow this with 3 sets of 15,12,10 reps (or thereabouts). Weight should be heavy enough that you are struggling to get the last rep, but not so heavy you are buried. We're not going to failure for the first 2 or so weeks. Don't neglect the negative portion of the lift.
Follow this with close grip bench presses - hands about 12 inches apart, bring the bar down below the nipples. Only 2 sets here, 15 reps.
Follow this with 3 sets of dips, or seated dips of you don't have a dip bar. 3 sets of however many you can do.
That's it for chest and tris. Then go on to standing military presses - you'll need to go light, and may want to wear a belt. the whole focus here is form, because later on in your career a good standing push press can be a great mass builder for shoulders. You can start using just the bar. It will be brought down to your collarbones. Press it up, but stop short of locking out your arms. We are going light so we can keep the tension on the front delts constant. You will be getting a good burn in your delts and upper chest if you are doing this right. You're also hitting your tris here (and you've alredy hit your front delts on teh bench). 2 sets of 15 reps.
Finish the workout off with a set or two of pushups just to flush some more blood into the areas you worked.
5 mins of stretching post workout. rest period should be no more than 1 minute between each set. Important - if you were training for pure strength rest woudl be longer, but here its about building that foundation of endurance, keeping the heart rate up a bit more, etc.
That's just one quick workout.
day 2 - Back/biceps/side and rear delts and traps
day 3 - cardio
day 4 - legs
day 5 - cardio or rest
day 6 - cycle begins again
I'd hit abs on cardio days.
I might go into more detail about the workouts later, but this gets a bit time consuming. Once again, this routine isn't rocket science. But the first 2 months of training don't need to be. You could stick with something like this for a month and we could modify it from there.
Diet - also not necessarily rocket science for the beginning stages. Get enough protein, cut out the obviuos junk, eat most of your carbs in the morning or early afternoon.
I'd need height/weight and overall body composition info to really get into spefics of caloric intake and protein/carb/fat ratios.
Go to a bookstore and get a book on something like this. For your goals, I'd stay away from looking at bodybuilding books or mags. You're probably better off going with one of those 'health magazine' oriented workouts that are designed for getting lean and muscular, not soley for strength and mass.
Until you've trained long enough to experiment a bit with different training methods and seen which gives you the best results for what it is you are after, don't put all of your eggs into one basket (all of these methods should have some basic commonalities like giving your body enough time to recuperate - although that time is an area of debate, there are some minimally 'accepted' lengths in that you won't seen anyone saying to train more frequently than them.)
When I started training about 13 years ago I pretty much went straight to a bodybuilding magazine and started taking workouts right from them. Made quick gains initially, because your body always takes off when you first begin hitting the weights hard. But I hit a plateau, and it wasn't until I really got into taking a more analytical and dedicated approach to the whole thing that I really got the gains I wanted. I've done pretty much every iteration of the 3 on 1 off or the 4 on 1 off, or the 2 on 2 off, or the 3 on 1 off 1 on 2 off, or the 5 on 2 off training splits there are...
Jules swears by the HIT, and it seems like he's made good gains from it. Some pro-bodybuilders (Mike Mentzer, Casey Viator - both from the 70s and early 80s...even Dorian Yates to some extent) have used training methods similar - but not identical to the way it is described by Jules and his resource.
If you want to gain muscle and want to avoid overtraining, then you should basically be doing as much as it takes to get that hypertrophic response going without creeping into overtraining. That is a fine line, and perhaps one that is best found for you as an individual by starting with a lower volume and increasing this volume until you start to notice your gains are stopping or you are too fatigued.
If I were you I wouldn't jump into HIT until you'd built up some experience in the lifts and gotten the muscles and joints ready a bit - since it espouses the use of heavy weights.
So, here's what I'd do for a month or two - a very basic, cut and dry, bare bones plan with the sole purpose of getting you a base of lifting experience and some muscle upon which you can build from.
Start each workout with a 10-15 minute warm up - walk around teh block, a light jog, get teh blood flowing. Then 5 minutes of stretching or so - NEVER STRETCH BEFORE WARMING UP.
There are thousands of routines that would work for what I think your goals should be in this first month or two - it could be a simple circuit routine that has you hitting your uppper body one day, your lower body the next, cardio the next, and then repeating the cycle...
I'm going to give you something right off the top of my head that would involve high to moderate numbers of reps. This is by no means the only plan that would work.
Day 1 - Chest/Triceps/Front delts
Flat Bench Press - 1 warm up set of 20 reps or so, light, focus on form. We can go over the correct form later, it is critical though.
Follow this with 3 sets of 15,12,10 reps (or thereabouts). Weight should be heavy enough that you are struggling to get the last rep, but not so heavy you are buried. We're not going to failure for the first 2 or so weeks. Don't neglect the negative portion of the lift.
Follow this with close grip bench presses - hands about 12 inches apart, bring the bar down below the nipples. Only 2 sets here, 15 reps.
Follow this with 3 sets of dips, or seated dips of you don't have a dip bar. 3 sets of however many you can do.
That's it for chest and tris. Then go on to standing military presses - you'll need to go light, and may want to wear a belt. the whole focus here is form, because later on in your career a good standing push press can be a great mass builder for shoulders. You can start using just the bar. It will be brought down to your collarbones. Press it up, but stop short of locking out your arms. We are going light so we can keep the tension on the front delts constant. You will be getting a good burn in your delts and upper chest if you are doing this right. You're also hitting your tris here (and you've alredy hit your front delts on teh bench). 2 sets of 15 reps.
Finish the workout off with a set or two of pushups just to flush some more blood into the areas you worked.
5 mins of stretching post workout. rest period should be no more than 1 minute between each set. Important - if you were training for pure strength rest woudl be longer, but here its about building that foundation of endurance, keeping the heart rate up a bit more, etc.
That's just one quick workout.
day 2 - Back/biceps/side and rear delts and traps
day 3 - cardio
day 4 - legs
day 5 - cardio or rest
day 6 - cycle begins again
I'd hit abs on cardio days.
I might go into more detail about the workouts later, but this gets a bit time consuming. Once again, this routine isn't rocket science. But the first 2 months of training don't need to be. You could stick with something like this for a month and we could modify it from there.
Diet - also not necessarily rocket science for the beginning stages. Get enough protein, cut out the obviuos junk, eat most of your carbs in the morning or early afternoon.
I'd need height/weight and overall body composition info to really get into spefics of caloric intake and protein/carb/fat ratios.
Go to a bookstore and get a book on something like this. For your goals, I'd stay away from looking at bodybuilding books or mags. You're probably better off going with one of those 'health magazine' oriented workouts that are designed for getting lean and muscular, not soley for strength and mass.
-
[xeno]Julios
- Posts: 6216
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 1999 8:00 am
just a quick clarification - the link i posted (HST) is very different from HIT.tnf wrote:... but not identical to the way it is described by Jules and his resource.
And TNF is right - as i said, I feel HIT has its limitations, and I can't generalize my results. I mainly do HIT because it's so damn convenient for my schedule.
Thnx a Jules and tnf. I havent been this serious about getting in shape in years and your expertise which i already know of is very much appreciated.
I have a concern about back exercises. Now i work on computers, siting in chairs all day and whats worse is i drive around all day, so i know the power of a bad back pain. Its only recently i been taking steps to prevent it by making sure im supported with a small pillow on my back in the car, making sure i dont sleep on the couch ( old habit ) or basicly do anything to harm it. I know many people that lift or lifted to some extent and too many of them have back problems now and crushed lower lumbars or whatever. Im very concerned about this problem and want to be sure i avoid it. My question is, should i avoid heavy lifting on my back and just focus on light weight reps in more of a cardiovascular approach or do you feel confident that it wont be a problem. I wonder if proper weight training simply is just gradual increase and people that get hurt are lifting too much too fast before the body and gain strength and inturn hurt themsleves, badly.
Just to outline my goals, i dont want to be huge and powerful. My natural physical form as always been of a fairly light weight and agile nature. Sports i excelled in were basketball and soccer and things of the like. So like i said, i want to play to the strengths i have always had. Just trying to clarify my goals.
Lastly, the things i have access too are my new weight set which is a 300 pounder and this bench.
I live by the beach so im thinking a good run in the sand will be great for the warm up runs that you were talking about tnf. I have a bike also and im sure i can rig something for chin ups but i wonder if i need to do them since i have weights.
Also, i did a lil work out last night, nothing big, just some lifting to wake my body up and let it know something is coming, but im curious cause im a lil sore, not too bad and im wondering how long i should wait to work that area again.
Ok thnx again guys and jules after i wake up some more im going to go through that link you posted and see whats up.
p.s. How big are you guys? I think its important to know your goals before i try to apply you path to the path im chosing.
I have a concern about back exercises. Now i work on computers, siting in chairs all day and whats worse is i drive around all day, so i know the power of a bad back pain. Its only recently i been taking steps to prevent it by making sure im supported with a small pillow on my back in the car, making sure i dont sleep on the couch ( old habit ) or basicly do anything to harm it. I know many people that lift or lifted to some extent and too many of them have back problems now and crushed lower lumbars or whatever. Im very concerned about this problem and want to be sure i avoid it. My question is, should i avoid heavy lifting on my back and just focus on light weight reps in more of a cardiovascular approach or do you feel confident that it wont be a problem. I wonder if proper weight training simply is just gradual increase and people that get hurt are lifting too much too fast before the body and gain strength and inturn hurt themsleves, badly.
Just to outline my goals, i dont want to be huge and powerful. My natural physical form as always been of a fairly light weight and agile nature. Sports i excelled in were basketball and soccer and things of the like. So like i said, i want to play to the strengths i have always had. Just trying to clarify my goals.
Lastly, the things i have access too are my new weight set which is a 300 pounder and this bench.
I live by the beach so im thinking a good run in the sand will be great for the warm up runs that you were talking about tnf. I have a bike also and im sure i can rig something for chin ups but i wonder if i need to do them since i have weights.
Also, i did a lil work out last night, nothing big, just some lifting to wake my body up and let it know something is coming, but im curious cause im a lil sore, not too bad and im wondering how long i should wait to work that area again.
Ok thnx again guys and jules after i wake up some more im going to go through that link you posted and see whats up.
p.s. How big are you guys? I think its important to know your goals before i try to apply you path to the path im chosing.
I'm not 'big' in the bodybuilding sense of the word. At my best shape I was 6'1" and about 187-190 at fairly low bodyfat.
Iccy, I'm going to do some searching for a book that I think would give you a lot of information towards what you're after - both in terms of diet and workouts. Although you'll get plenty of information here, sometimes it helps to just have one plan and stick with it for awhile.
Also Iccy, I can put together workouts for leaning out, building mass, powerlifting, etc...so don't apply 'me' in that sense to the path you are choosing. That simple little chest/tricep/shoulder workout I gave you was something that really would be good for you during the first month of training - for all the reasons I mentioned.
Iccy, I'm going to do some searching for a book that I think would give you a lot of information towards what you're after - both in terms of diet and workouts. Although you'll get plenty of information here, sometimes it helps to just have one plan and stick with it for awhile.
Also Iccy, I can put together workouts for leaning out, building mass, powerlifting, etc...so don't apply 'me' in that sense to the path you are choosing. That simple little chest/tricep/shoulder workout I gave you was something that really would be good for you during the first month of training - for all the reasons I mentioned.
And if you follow my advice about focusing on correct form with light weights for the first two or so months before going to failure with your training, you'll greatly reduce your chances of injury. It is a gradual process of increase, though.
And people who are always hurt usually are lifting incorrectly or too heavy. For example, doing a bent row with a rounded back, or not getting their core muscles strong enough to support the midsection during heavy lifts. A lot of guys stand with a sway-back when lifting, putting a lot of extra foce on the lower back...proper posture involves having the hips thrust forward a bit, stomach tight, lower back neutral.
And people who are always hurt usually are lifting incorrectly or too heavy. For example, doing a bent row with a rounded back, or not getting their core muscles strong enough to support the midsection during heavy lifts. A lot of guys stand with a sway-back when lifting, putting a lot of extra foce on the lower back...proper posture involves having the hips thrust forward a bit, stomach tight, lower back neutral.
Ok tnf. I think im just going to follow your plan up there for now. I figure the easiest i can make this the better ill be cause ill be less frustrated cause i know what worked for you and if i keep going at it like that, ill get better. Sometimes it helps to know someone else has been there and done that and it worked.
Also, what is failure?
Also, what is failure?
meaning training until you can't do anymore reps. Without a spotter it's a bit tricky to go to failure..heh.
That workout there, like I said, its nothing magic or unique...but since you've not trained much, the goal for you at this point to get your form down and a simple routine to follow initially.
I'd also get a book so you can have a reference for correct form on the lifts.
Something like this -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157826 ... oding=UTF8
Its not a huge reference, as some of the reviews say, but it outlines some good basic things, diet, workouts, etc.
It'd be a good place to start.
That workout there, like I said, its nothing magic or unique...but since you've not trained much, the goal for you at this point to get your form down and a simple routine to follow initially.
I'd also get a book so you can have a reference for correct form on the lifts.
Something like this -
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/157826 ... oding=UTF8
Its not a huge reference, as some of the reviews say, but it outlines some good basic things, diet, workouts, etc.
It'd be a good place to start.
-
[xeno]Julios
- Posts: 6216
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 1999 8:00 am
yea, like TNF says, you want to prioritize form over weight. I spent the first couple weeks in the gym using just the bar for squats and straight legged deadlifts.
If you want to do chins properly, then build up your strength to the point where you can do around 12 full chinups with your own bodyweight. I prefer close grip pronated, but I hear that a neutral grip (so palms are facing each other) is best. Of course you need a special bar for that.
Then buy a dipping belt, and you can do weighted chins.
Same principle applied to dips if you choose to do dips.
Chinups are fantastic since they target multiple muscle groups in one movement - a compound exercise. You get a lot of bang for your buck with those movements, and they're great for building up a good foundation.
As for (lower) back muscles, I'd highly recommend developing them. They will serve to protect you from injury if you use good form. You'll also develop a lot of core strength.
back extensions seem pretty safe -
easy to add weight - just grab a plate and hug it while you're doing the movement.
Key is to be able to latch onto something with your ankles.
If you want to do chins properly, then build up your strength to the point where you can do around 12 full chinups with your own bodyweight. I prefer close grip pronated, but I hear that a neutral grip (so palms are facing each other) is best. Of course you need a special bar for that.
Then buy a dipping belt, and you can do weighted chins.
Same principle applied to dips if you choose to do dips.
Chinups are fantastic since they target multiple muscle groups in one movement - a compound exercise. You get a lot of bang for your buck with those movements, and they're great for building up a good foundation.
As for (lower) back muscles, I'd highly recommend developing them. They will serve to protect you from injury if you use good form. You'll also develop a lot of core strength.
back extensions seem pretty safe -
easy to add weight - just grab a plate and hug it while you're doing the movement.
Key is to be able to latch onto something with your ankles.
Last edited by [xeno]Julios on Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
-
Dark Metal
- Posts: 5496
- Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2000 8:00 am
-
[xeno]Julios
- Posts: 6216
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 1999 8:00 am
-
Guest
I did a 7 min 6.5-10.5mph session of HIIT today. Our gym has replaced all the old treadmills with cool new ones and they have heartrate counters. After 2 minutes of HIIT I was hitting 191bpm, so thats 95% of my max and the suggested is 90%, therefore even a 10.5mph sprint is very, very intense for me :icon14:
-
[xeno]Julios
- Posts: 6216
- Joined: Fri Dec 10, 1999 8:00 am
