Quake3World

How much share of the profits does id get from their games
sold in Retail like the titles DOOM 3 or Quake 4?
How much percentage of the profits?

I ask this cause of the following...
Someone just said in Ritual's forum that Valve will get 50%
of Sin Episodes Sales and the poster justifies this being
good cause traditional Publishers only give 20% to devs.
Is this right?
For example does id only get 20% of the profit sales from
DOOM 3 or Quake 4 sold in Retail?
Does Activision have a 80% share profits?

Valve wanting to monopolize the market, and the way they
are so aggressively spreading the intrusive Steam system
without caring for customers is immensely worrisome.

Valve started all this by saying Publishers are evil when
what they want is replacing them and eat the distribution
profits and creating a monopoly.

--
post made in a steam-free computer
i said "NO" to valve and steam

I said yes to steam.

[Edit: ^^ You know who else said "yes" to Steam, don't you? That's right. Hitler.]

I don't understand what relevance the profit percentage has to anything. The fact is, whether devs normally make 20% or 50% or 90%, electronic distribution allows them to remove the middleman and make more; other issues aside, that's simply sensible business practice. Profit is good--that's the whole point of selling something. Monopolizing the market is a good thing to shoot for as well.

Not sure what you're referring to with "aggressively" and "without caring"; I personally find Steam to be convenient and have had no problems.

I find it sort of sad (and a little wacky) that you created a forum account and username that revolves entirely around your dislike for something that you don't even use, and you created that account on a Quake-oriented forum that has nothing to do with Steam.

There are decaffeinated brands that are pretty decent. Just sayin'.

I agree, it makes updating games and the like a snap. I'm guessing that you probably work for a publishing company sayNO2steam. I would prefer that the developers get the majority of the profit anyway, as they are the ones putting in the work to make the product in the first place. I still bought HL2 in a retail store, but have gotten other games off of steam and don't really see a problem with it. You don't have to run steam full time to play. You can set it to offline mode and only connect to steam when you want to update or something. I fail to see where it's a problem or that they are monopolizing anything.

You know, when I first read about Steam I didnt like it, I dont play HL/HL2/CS so really its irrelevant. However I do feel that something that I choose let affect me, Quake 4 MP, was rushed, and further feel that Activision was the reason it was pushed to make the holiday release.

If there is even a glimmer of truth in that then by all means, digital distro away, because counting on a fucking publisher that has little to no actual connection with the community isnt turning out to be a winning situation so far in Q4's life cycle.

There are plenty of people in the community who feel that id has lost touch with what made them so successful in the past, every company has to grow up I guess but more and more it seems like id is just selling out.

DooM Movie. No demons to found, not about hell at all. SELL OUT.

Bleh why continue this off topic rant. Either way, if the game developers can make more money and throw off the dead weight that is the publishing industry focused completely on profit all the better...

Say yes to steam.

Replying to "pjw"

. Relevance of profit percentage
Relevance of the profits has to do with the following:
The story goes like this, Ritual decided to release a sequel
to Sin which btw used id's Quake engine. The important part
of this is they decided to use Steam distribution system and
make Valve their publisher.
In Ritual forum they defend this is a good decision to choose
Valve over any other "traditional" Publisher like Activision,
cause Valve will "only" get 50% of the profits cause what is
usual is the "traditional" Publisher getting 80%.
Now Activision was the original publisher of "Sin" and is the
current publisher of all id Software games, so I want to know
if it is true that "traditional" Publishers like Activision
get 80% from profits, which makes Valve more "generous", and
that is why I want to know how much Activision is getting from
the sales of id's games DOOM 3 or Quake 4. Would id be better
of if they choose Valve (Oh God I hope not! that would be my
worse nightmare)

. No middleman is being removed
Ritual is not removing the middleman with Sin sequel they are
simply replacing one with another cause Sin Episodes still
has a Publisher and this time it is called Valve.
First Sin had Activision and now they choose instead Valve,
so the middleman is still there and eating what it seams to be
half of the profits.

. Balance between profitability and affordability
Profits are good for those who sell not for those who buy
You like profits but I don't cause I buy PC Games and the more
expensive they get the worse for me.
Obviously I want the PC Game industry to be profitable cause
only this way will we see more titles being released but I
also want PC Games to be affordable so there has to be a
balance between profits and PC Games being affordable...
Profitability of the PC Game market is essential but is
should be done by better fight against piracy and not with
the rise of prices.

. Monopoly will never be a good thing to consumers
I really don't understand how can you say monopoly can be a
good thing... I really don't cause everyone knows monopoly
brings prices up and quality down and that will be always a
bad thing to consumers.

. The agressive way Valve is pushing Steam upon PC Gamers
I say Valve is very aggressively pushing Steam upon PC Gamers
and not caring for them cause they simply cut out a fairly
big number of them:
Valve simply neglected with no justification PC Gamers that
don't have a internet access in the PC they use to play
PC Games or even those that have, but only a narrowband dial
up internet connection.
You can not install and play Half-Life 2 single-player if
you don't have a internet access.
Making it mandatory net access to install and play a single
player Retail game, which was the first time anyone did it
in the PC Game market is in my point of view very agressive
and not caring for a big number of PC Gamers cause they only
did it to fight piracy even if that means damaging customers
like me.

. My name account
Yes I do agree my name account is not totally correct but the
reason is simple, I don't have broadband, but even if I had
I don't agree and accept buying a Retail PC Game with any
kind of Product Activation, so Steam simply means I'm out of
my favorite Hobby PC Games.
Attention but it is only in Retail cause I don't have anything
against online delivery systems but I do oppose Retail PC Games
that require Product Activation and internet access to install
and play the single-player portion of the game.
So basically I'm only defending my stay as a PC Gamer and I do
respect anyone that chooses Steam but putting Steam in a Retail
game with product activation and net access to play a single
player game I think is disrespectful and is a way to pushing
me out of PC Games and that I will try and fight my best to
stop.
Valve with the Steam system damaged me and I'm simply trying
to defend myself.

. My presence in this forum
I agree probably the best is I change name account but I do
think I deserve being in this forum cause I'm really an id fan
And it is ironic you question my presence here when in the
other forums people accuse me of always talking about id
and being a id fan. If you ask me what gives me hope when I
see Publishers like Valve not caring about PC Gamers is id.
For me it is simply inconceivable id doing what Valve does.
. Do you believe id will ever include Product Activation in a
Retail product?
. Do you believe id will ever force gamers to have a internet
access to install and play a single-player game?
. Do you believe id will ever force you to create an account so
you can install and play a Retail game you just bought?
. Do you believe id will ever stop releasing patches in separate
and individual files for manual offline patching?
. Do you believe id will ever include a system made for online
distribution like Steam to be included as mandatory in a Retail
game?

This is the big connection between id and Valve.
id has a totally different approach from Valve.
For example, let me compare two FPS released in 2004 one from
id and another from Valve.

DOOM 3 vs Half-Life 2
Both are FPS released in 2004 for the PC and available in Retail
Price
DOOM 3: 19.99
Half-Life 2: 39.99
Why Half-Life 2 cost two times what DOOM 3 cost in Retail? why?
Patches
DOOM 3: Available in individual files for manual patching and
not requiring a internet access to do it.
Half-Life 2: End of patches available in individual files and
you can only patch the game if you have a internet access.
Copy Protection
DOOM 3: With patches none at all and no need for CD inserted to
play meaning id is giving customers full freedom
Half-Life 2: Need to do a Product Activation, create an account
to install and play and have a program always resident in mem
to monitor you.
Internet requirement
DOOM 3: For single-player none
Half-Life 2: Mandatory Internet requirement to install and to
play the single-player portion of the game

Like you see id is all about freedom and letting consumers choose
when Valve is all about restrictions and impositions.
My idols are id and my enemy is Valve, that is the connection I
see in both.

------------------------------------------------------------------

replying to "scourge34"
I work for a publishing company? so "pjw" says I should want more
profits and monopoly in the market and I obviously disagree cause
as a consumer I suffer and you say I work for a publisher?
For God sake I'm a simple PC Gamer and the reason why I appose
Valve and Steam is cause they are making it mandatory to do a
product activation and have internet access to install and play
a single player game.
If I worked for a Publisher you bet I would defend Product Activation
but I am a consumer, a PC Gamer, someone that buys PC Games so I
will never ever accept a Product Activation in a Retail Game.

As for developers getting the majority of profits you bet that is
not happening to Ritual with Sin Episodes cause Valve is getting
half! half of the profits of Sin Episodes will go to Valve that
now became a Publisher and everything else together
Don't forget with Steam Valve is not only the Publisher but also
the Distributor and the Retailer.
A single entity with all these power and getting half the profits
from developers... I'm sorry I really don't see this as good, and
that is why I fear a monopoly.
A btw you didn't see a problem having to create an account and do
a product activation to simply install and play a Retail game?
Do you want Retail PC Games to have a mandatory product activation
and the need to create an account every time you buy/install/play
one? is that what you want for the future of PC Games?

------------------------------------------------------------------

Replying to "jester"
Quake 4 was rushed? Totally disagree with you cause first it is a
big improvement over DOOM 3 and they are developing it for over 3
years and I personally have finished without ever crashing and
they have only released a single patch and the game has been out
for 3 month now... Quake 4 is solid and stable... and not like the
Steam games that Valve advertises as being patched every week...

And to conclude... id philosophy is to give freedom to the consumer
and let us choose
Valve philosophy is imposing, and making consumers do what they want
even if that damage us

I was damaged by Valve when they decided a single-player Retail game
requires Product Activation and internet access to install and play
a single-player game.
id in the other way has always been good to me and giving me games
that are easy to buy, install, play and patch and most of all giving
me freedom to play them the way I want.
Thank you id and you will always have a extremely loyal customer.
And if anyone can finally reply to my question I would be grateful
What profit percentage id gets from their Retail games?

sayNO2steam wrote:Valve wanting to monopolize the market

To clarify, monopolise which market? If you mean the PC games distribution market, can you clarify how Steam would help them do this?

and the way they
are so aggressively spreading the intrusive Steam system
without caring for customers is immensely worrisome.

Again, can you clarify what you mean here? By aggressively, do you mean that all of their products now require Steam, or are they doing something beyond that?

Steam accomplishes more than just one function. Aside from cutting out the distributor, it also serves as a platform for: Anti piracy, anti-cheat, automatic updating, pickup game matching.

It's worth bearing in mind that although Steam is here first, other vendors will follow suit and come out with electronic delivery systems. From what you've said, you seem to base a lot of your worries on the notion that Steam will somehow become the only method of content delivery for every PC game at some point in the future, which is obviously a complete load of rubbish. The only people who are going to be using Steam are people who are willing to do so.

Get you facts straight. Online-access is NOT required to play Steam games at all. Once you logon to Steam and have your games installed, you can set each of them to function in "offline mode".

That makes the notion of downtime almost non-existant. ISP has blackout while you're in the middle of your singleplayer game? Well no problem, set the game to boot in offline mode. I think anyone that has the funds to build a decent pc these days to play the latest games has some form of internet access. Cmon lets not kid ourselves. You bought Half-Life 2? I'd be very suprised if you don't at least have access to a buddys network or something that you can logon and install your game.

I think Steam itself is a great product. Patch managment and deployment is a lot more efficient. Well, more like hotfixes actually, as Valve is able to rollout fixes per bug-basis, and most the time it's really transparent, when you launch Steam you don't notice it even patching because it's usually finished.

Also, Steam is a really excellent platform of choice for indy developers. People that would otherwise not have the resources to have their game show up in brick and mortar stores. The unreal tournament mod, red orchestra is a perfect example. They will ship their retail mod in the coming weeks, via Steam. The burden of having resources to launch the game in stores is effectively lifted. Sure Valve will take a slice of that pie, but I'm sure the RO developers are happy and extatic that their game will actually see the light of day.

"Quake 4 was rushed? Totally disagree with you cause first it is a
big improvement over DOOM 3 and they are developing it for over 3
years and I personally have finished without ever crashing and
they have only released a single patch and the game has been out
for 3 month now... Quake 4 is solid and stable... and not like the
Steam games that Valve advertises as being patched every week...
"



Note that I am only talking about the MP, I dont give a shit about single player. The MP was rushed and just tacked on at the end of development. The End.

sayNO2steam wrote: The agressive way Valve is pushing Steam upon PC Gamers
I say Valve is very aggressively pushing Steam upon PC Gamers
and not caring for them cause they simply cut out a fairly
big number of them:
Valve simply neglected with no justification PC Gamers that
don't have a internet access in the PC they use to play
PC Games or even those that have, but only a narrowband dial
up internet connection.
You can not install and play Half-Life 2 single-player if
you don't have a internet access.
Making it mandatory net access to install and play a single
player Retail game, which was the first time anyone did it
in the PC Game market is in my point of view very agressive
and not caring for a big number of PC Gamers cause they only
did it to fight piracy even if that means damaging customers
like me.

You merged 2 points into one here and only justified one of them, giving the illusion that you had somehow justified both.

All you do is expand on your point about "not caring for gamers" and you do not justify your main point, "Valve is very aggressively pushing Steam upon PC Gamers".

Also you included a factual error by stating that "narrowband dial up internet connections are not supported" by Steam.
I activated HL2 over dialup via Steam, thus this is incorrect.

My name account
Yes I do agree my name account is not totally correct but the
reason is simple, I don't have broadband, but even if I had
I don't agree and accept buying a Retail PC Game with any
kind of Product Activation, so Steam simply means I'm out of
my favorite Hobby PC Games.

I do not understand how Steam renders you unable to indulge in your PC gaming hobby. If you're unable or unwilling to use Steam then you are excluded from playing Steam games, nothing more.

Second, your inability or unwillingness to use Steam results in a lost sale for Valve. Hence if there really is a large number of people who are unable or do not want to use Steam, there will be a supply to meet this demand.

I don't have anything
against online delivery systems but I do oppose Retail PC Games
that require Product Activation and internet access to install
and play the single-player portion of the game.

This constitutes a pretty lengthy discussion topic in its own right. Suffice to say, I go back to my point that if you don't agree with the terms of sale of a product, your power lies in not buying it. Becoming some evangelical online presence and attempting to 'turn' others to your cause is a point of view on which you will likely receive a great deal of well-deserved mockery.

DOOM 3: 19.99
Half-Life 2: 39.99

Why Half-Life 2 cost two times what DOOM 3 cost in Retail? why?

You have biased this information. Doom 3 was not that price when released. For this to be a fair comparison I suggest you find the original RRPs at the time of release.

Second, Doom 3 has been highly unpopular compared to HL2. It only takes a glance at the bargain bins in town for me to verify this. We could go in-depth on a debate on whether/why D3 was a flop compared to HL2, but lets not.

Popular games remain at higher prices and unpopular games reach the 5.99 bin much faster. This is just a regular aspect of retail.

Patches
DOOM 3: Available in individual files for manual patching and
not requiring a internet access to do it.

Half-Life 2: End of patches available in individual files and
you can only patch the game if you have a internet access.

Really? Where do you get patches from if not from the internet? Cover CDs on magazines which you pay for?

Half-Life 2: Mandatory Internet requirement to install and to
play the single-player portion of the game

You do not require an internet account beyond initial activation for half life 2. Steam features an 'offline mode' as well as a DVD back-up option to enable you to play without a connection after activating the game just once.

My idols are id and my enemy is Valve, that is the connection I
see in both.

You have issues if you're prepared to regard games companies in this manner. My advice to you would be to take things just a little less seriously, make informed decisions on your purchases, and realise that as a consumer your 'power' lies in choosing what you purchase and what you leave on the shelf.

http://www.petitiononline.com

sayNO2steam wrote:replying to "scourge34"
I work for a publishing company? so "pjw" says I should want more
profits and monopoly in the market and I obviously disagree cause
as a consumer I suffer and you say I work for a publisher?
For God sake I'm a simple PC Gamer and the reason why I appose
Valve and Steam is cause they are making it mandatory to do a
product activation and have internet access to install and play
a single player game.
If I worked for a Publisher you bet I would defend Product Activation
but I am a consumer, a PC Gamer, someone that buys PC Games so I
will never ever accept a Product Activation in a Retail Game.

As for developers getting the majority of profits you bet that is
not happening to Ritual with Sin Episodes cause Valve is getting
half! half of the profits of Sin Episodes will go to Valve that
now became a Publisher and everything else together
Don't forget with Steam Valve is not only the Publisher but also
the Distributor and the Retailer.
A single entity with all these power and getting half the profits
from developers... I'm sorry I really don't see this as good, and
that is why I fear a monopoly.
A btw you didn't see a problem having to create an account and do
a product activation to simply install and play a Retail game?
Do you want Retail PC Games to have a mandatory product activation
and the need to create an account every time you buy/install/play
one? is that what you want for the future of PC Games?

No I didn't mind making an account and activating my game. That's becoming quite common place with most software, why not games as well. Only took two minutes to make the account, 10 or 15 to unlock the game and it was up and running. Make a DVD backup of the data and you don't ever have to log on to steam again to play, unless you want updates. And what's the difference if Valve as a publisher or, say, Activision for an example as the publisher getting the profits? So far you're not making any headway with that one, because, as you said Valve would only get 50% as opposed to 80% by Activision. I fail to see where that would be bad for Ritual. You wold prefer them to lose 80? I guess I'm just not seeing your point here.

sayNO2steam wrote:DOOM 3 vs Half-Life 2
Both are FPS released in 2004 for the PC and available in Retail
Price
DOOM 3: 19.99
Half-Life 2: 39.99
Why Half-Life 2 cost two times what DOOM 3 cost in Retail? why?

Oh, and this. Foo already covered the release price angle. I just wan tot add that PC games if anything have maintained a price range over the last 15 years. HL2 included. It didn't cost me anymore for HL2 or D3 than it did for Hexen in '95. There goes that theory out the window. They are not getting more expensive, fact.

One more thing, I'd be willing to say that the majority of gamers on the internet these days have broadband. Yes, dial-up is still around, but it's on it's death bed as far as gaming goes. Those who won't or can't move up will be left behind. I also hardly think that steam would be a monopoly. This form of distribution will catch on and steam will only be one of many. Yes I think id will probably one day be doing the same thing. Ok, that was more than one more thing.

Replying to "Foo":
Monopoly in Valve and Steam
1. Monopoly cause a single entity controls development,
publishing and distribution.
2. Monopoly cause until now Steam games are all Steam
dependant meaning if a Game has Steam then he is not
available without it.
3. Monopoly cause Valve is now releasing third party
games using it and replacing all at once the publisher,
distributor and retailer.
4. Monopoly cause Valve is advertising and wanting others
to use Steam, and at least until now Steam doesn't seam
to coexist with any other distribution system.
My main worry is seeing Steam unable to coexist in competition
with other systems... look at Retail... Steam is not competing
with Retail but rather using it, talking advantage of it and
INFECTING it damaging the Retail market and Retail customers.

Valve aggressive way of forcing Steam
1. Decided that PC Gamers that don't have net access can't
play single-player games which was the first ever anyone
in the industry made mandatory for no apparent reason that
is incredibly agressive in my book.
2. Steam has to be present in every single version available
which includes even Retail PC Games, and Retail should be
kept independent and in competition and not having Steam.
3. Complete disregard for requests by customers and acting
in a absolutely arrogant way, which for me is also very
agressive.

Lets clarify... when I criticize Steam it is only cause of
its presence in Retail
Steam in Retail is not a distribution system cause Retail
is the distribution system.
Steam in Retail only means:
. Retail games having product activation
. Retail games needing the creation of an account
. Retail games needing net access to install and play even
single-player ones

This is very important, I'm not talking about Steam as a
online distribution system, but rather Steam in Retail, the
presence of Steam in a Retail packaged box PC Game version.

I do agree and think it is very positive the PC Game market
having the online distribution available so more choice is
present for PC Gamers but not the way Valve is doing with
Steam cause what Valve is doing with Steam is wrong and is
including in a Retail PC Game Steam which is damaging the
Retail customers like myself.
Steam yes but only as a online delivery system and what I
ask is for games to be also available in the traditional
Retail packaged box with no product activation or need for
net access to install and play single-player game.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Replying to "dzjepp":
The facts are very clear, internet access is required to
install and play a single-player game with Steam like HL2
This is not something you can argue about. It is a fact.
For you to install and play Half-Life 2 Retail version you
need to have a internet access in the PC you use to play
games.
As for what kind of internet access?
For me it is deceiving to say you can have a dial-up cause
One think Steam does is when you first install the game and
do the product activation it immediately does a check for
online updates and it only lets you play the game if you
fully patch the game... so for what I know the current
patches for Half-Life 2 can be up to many megas. Suppose
it is 100mbs, it means if you have dial-up pay-by-the-
minute you have to pay for at least 8 hours of internet
access and have your phone line occupied for straing 8
hours!
8 hours only to start a single-player Retail game you
just bought?! Is this acceptable? for God sake! NO!

-----------------------------------------------------------

Replying to "jester":
I only play single-player mode and I guess most in this forum
only play multi-player so that is why nobody understands the
issue of Steam... obviously multi-player gamers will never have
any issues with Steam... but try and not be so selfish and
think about other PC Gamers also
Please get out of your multi-player "world" for once and thing
about the others
Don't look at PC Gaming as multi-player only
Include everyone!
Don't exclude PC Gamers
PC Games is losing gamers so don't exclude those PC Gamers
that play mostly single-player games and btw this is a forum
dedicated to id and the last 3 games from id are all mainly
single-player games (fortunately)

-----------------------------------------------------------

Again replying to "Foo":
In part I've replied about why I felt Valve is so aggressive
as for not caring... come on... they don't give a damn about
all the PC Gamers that don't have internet access in the PC
they use to play games.
You guys are all so focus in multiplayer and don't realize
there are many many PC Gamers out there that simply don't
have access to fast internet and only play single-player.
So yes Valve does care and doesn't give a damn about PC
Gamers like myself

As for dial-up being enough for Steam in Retail I've already
replied to "dzjepp" and for me it is not
For me it is not acceptable to have to:
. Pay many hours of dial-up internet access to install a single
player game I just bought
. Wait many hours for a single-player game download patches
just cause the Retail game I bought makes me.
. Have my phone line busy for many hours just cause I am
downloading a patch i didn't ask for.
For me dial-up is not at all recommended or capable for
Retail games with steam and that is why I ask for Steam not
to be present in Retail

Fortunately only Valve is using these abusive Steam in Retail
and nobody else but this discussion started cause of a game
that is not being developed by Valve but will still have steam
I'm only fighting so the future PC Game market will not be
Steam centric and also cause I simply want to play Half-Life 2
don't you respect my simple will to want to buy and play HL2?

And btw these is the list of current Retail PC Games I can't
buy and play cause they have Steam
Half-Life 2
Counter-Strike Source
Half-Life 1 Anthology
Counter-Strike 1 Anthology

And soon I will unfortunately have to add Sin Episodes to the
list.

As for the lose of sales Valve is getting from customers like
me...
Don't you get it? Valve predicted this all along and they
simply don't care? Why?
Why they don't care about PC Gamers like me with no internet
access in the PC they use for gaming? cause Steam will give
them power and control over those that don't mind to use
Steam
Steam is an investment for the future.
Steam system will give Valve power and with power will come
more money.
For Valve, PC Gamers like me are expendable cause what they
want is the power Steam gives them even if with fewer number
of customers, cause they will make those customers pay what
they want.

Just do the math...
Valve already said next Half-Life will be in episodes...
But before that they will use Ritual to try Sin Episodes
and Sin Episodes will sell for 20 bucks each and have 4/5
hours of gameplay... and their will be 9 Episodes...
So you do the match... total 40 hours gameplay will cost
180 dollars!
So now tell me what the hell they need me for when they
will be able to ask for 180 dollars for each game?
I'm expendable cause the future of Steam is very bright
for Valve.
They can affort to lose me and many other PC Gamers with
no net connection cause Steam will make they ask more
for each individual game.

As for the price... these are current figures... not
past figures...
The facts are clear currently in the present FPS PC Games
released in 2004 like Painkiller, Far Cry, Riddick, Tribes
Vengeance and DOOM 3 all cost 19.99 in Retail and Half-
Life 2 costs 39.99 in Steam
These are facts so check the numbers.
You can say Half-Life 2 is better than all those so it
deserves being sold 2 times the price of all the others
but I don't buy it and I think Steam is responsible for
Half-Life 2 being still more expensive than any other
FPS released in 2004.

Where do I get my patches?
First I don't always need to patch...
Let me give you an example...
The last FPS I've bought/installed/played and finished...
FEAR, ended playing it and didn't patch
Serious Sam 2, ended playing it and didn't patch
Quake 4, only patched cause of the no need for DVD inserted
to play, cause otherwise I wouldn't.
So you see first in the majority of cases I don't patch at
all and second when I need it I ask friends and I copy the
file to a 512MB USB memory stick I have and carry back home
This is freedom and not like Valve that doesn't let me
patch offline and have patches available in individual files
and makes mandatory to fully patch your game when you first
install it even if you only have a narrowband dial-up pay
by the minute connection.

You need internet connection to install, play and patch a
Steam Retail game like Half-Life 2.
Again these are not things you can argue, these are facts.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Again replying to "dzjepp":
Done it already
http://www.petitiononline.com/NewHL2SE/
please sign it
Thanks

-----------------------------------------------------------

Replying to "scourge34":
I didn't say Activision has 80%! I asked if they have 80% of
the profits... do they have? does Activision get 80%? it is a
question I'm asking now but I guess no one in the forum knows

So again anyone knows what margin profits does Activision has
for sales of DOOM 3 and Quake 4 in Retail?

And it does matter if people have broadband or not, what is
important is Retail single-player PC Games don't need net
access to install and play.
Retail single-player PC Games can't have as requirement the
need for net access even if everyone in the world has a T1
connection!
Just think about the following
Do you want to buy a record and only after you "asked for
permission to use" to the record label can you listen to it?
Do you want to buy a book and only after you "asked for
permission to use" to the publisher can you read it?
Do you want to buy a movie and only after you "asked for
permission to use" to the Studio can you watch it?
Come one... come on! Product Activation in Retail is BAD!
BAD! what the hell is happening to consumers???? getting
all submissive???? don't be submissive!
product activation which means asking for permission to use
something you just bought is WRONG! Gosh

sayNO2steam wrote:Replying to "Foo":
Monopoly in Valve and Steam
1. Monopoly cause a single entity controls development,
publishing and distribution.
2. Monopoly cause until now Steam games are all Steam
dependant meaning if a Game has Steam then he is not
available without it.
3. Monopoly cause Valve is now releasing third party
games using it and replacing all at once the publisher,
distributor and retailer.
4. Monopoly cause Valve is advertising and wanting others
to use Steam, and at least until now Steam doesn't seam
to coexist with any other distribution system.
My main worry is seeing Steam unable to coexist in competition
with other systems... look at Retail... Steam is not competing
with Retail but rather using it, talking advantage of it and
INFECTING it damaging the Retail market and Retail customers.

You do not understand the term monopoly, or what a monopoly is. That is all there is to this.

Valve aggressive way of forcing Steam
1. Decided that PC Gamers that don't have net access can't
play single-player games which was the first ever anyone
in the industry made mandatory for no apparent reason that
is incredibly agressive in my book.
2. Steam has to be present in every single version available
which includes even Retail PC Games, and Retail should be
kept independent and in competition and not having Steam.
3. Complete disregard for requests by customers and acting
in a absolutely arrogant way, which for me is also very
agressive.

Yet again, you start by talking about valve 'aggressively forcing Steam' then proceed to talk about things completely unrelated to that point.

Lets clarify... when I criticize Steam it is only cause of
its presence in Retail
Steam in Retail is not a distribution system cause Retail
is the distribution system.

Steam in Retail only means:
. Retail games having product activation
. Retail games needing the creation of an account
. Retail games needing net access to install and play even
single-player ones

WHAT?
I get the distinct feeling english isn't your first language.

Which part of 'then dont buy steam games' is difficult to grasp?

I only buy Fair-trade coffee. Why? Because I agree with the practice and disagree with the practices of those who do not follow fair trade standards.

Do I rant and rave online about how everyone else should say 'no' to regular coffee? No. And I would be a fool to do so.

I think everything I might have replied with has already been said (and hasn't seemed to have made much impact).

sayNO2steam wrote:Replying to "pjw"

Like you see id is all about freedom and letting consumers choose
when Valve is all about restrictions and impositions.
My idols are id and my enemy is Valve...

You seem to have a very black-and-white simplistic view of some things, and seem to take those things very personally.

Good luck with that.

How's life pjw?

I PLAY MONOPLU WAY2MUCH FOR IT TO b BAD.

Fjoggs wrote:How's life pjw?

Ah, you know man, it comes and goes. Some days are like



while others are more like



or even



but it's mostly



so it's :icon31:.

Foo wrote: This guys gets ridiculed pretty much everywhere he goes

Wow. That's a lot of energy raging against something.

Foo wrote:This guys gets ridiculed pretty much everywhere he goes

Lol. I'm done with him. Kinda reminds me of rep in a more ignorant sort of way.