Quake3World

Many of us are in a mixed bag about next gen stuff. Some people like X but hate Y, some people dont even know why dev teams are still working on Y, when X is still years behind etc etc...

What I mean is, its obvious that in a few years, games will look fan-fucking-tastic, high res textures, high poly models, per wibble wobblers etc Look at Gears Of War, thats out this year I believe, and its probably the best looking game on the planet at this time.

But really... Forget higher res textures, forget higher poly models...

What do YOU think would be a nice next step that hasn't really been worked on as much as it should of been?

I've heard some people say animations, its all well and good having CGI quality animation but when they still rotate on the same spot, ya know...

What do you think?

(I know I'm asking for a butt whoopin with this thread, but do try and keep it on track)

o'dium wrote:MWhat do YOU think would be a nice next step that hasn't really been worked on as much as it should of been?

Something not related to graphics

i agree with the animation stuff, really. HL2 had some hardcore animations going on, but the people-on-rails thing is still as primitive as ever.
i personally dont need 3 joints per finger, it just has to look a lot smoother than it does now. it sucks playing a great immersive game, only to get a reality check cause some animation looks downright awkward

AI

gameplay. a few steps back maybe.

MKJ wrote:i agree with the animation stuff, really. HL2 had some hardcore animations going on, but the people-on-rails thing is still as primitive as ever.
i personally dont need 3 joints per finger, it just has to look a lot smoother than it does now. it sucks playing a great immersive game, only to get a reality check cause some animation looks downright awkward

Ahuh, I agree.

Why do some games have weapons floating a good 3 inches away from the hand? Doom 3 solved this in quite a good way. Each weapon in the game was actually modeled ONTO the player model and had its own animation set. This means that if you wanted to have the player put his finger on the trigger, it was possible and would look perfect. The problem was, that it goes un-noticed, simply due to the fact Doom 3's world weapon models (read: Pick up models) are very, very low poly. This means that you wont really get a chance to see it, because there wont even BE a trigger, lol.

As for the rails thing, yeah. Players in Doom 3 walk at 30 frames a second i believe, CGI quality, and look fantastic. BUT, again, when walking, they seem to "slide". It would be nice to see a player walk, but have his foot actually stick to the floor while his next foot moves along, and repeats. I dont know how hard that would be however

Eraser wrote:

o'dium wrote:MWhat do YOU think would be a nice next step that hasn't really been worked on as much as it should of been?

Something not related to graphics

Zyte wrote:gameplay. a few steps back maybe.

1. THERE IS NO MONEY FOR #2 IN THE TRADITIONAL CONSOLE RACE
Nintendo has realized that in the high-spec hardware race the
- margins on hardware are incredibly small to negative
- first-party games are huge, 10-20M USD risks every time
- taking in account HW margin and 1st party risk, lifetime platform profitability will be achieved only by market leader
- Nintendo hasn't got in traditional terms an edge on Sony, so why waste cash trying like MS

2. SONY VS. MICROSOFT BATTLE WILL DRAIN THE MARKET FROM ANY PROFIT
With two resourceful companies fighting for number one spot, the market profitability will be destroyed. The following means will be used:
- Hardware pricing below profitability
- Cuts in third-party margins
- Excessive marketing campaigns

3. NINTENDO PROFITS BY CHANGING INTO A DIFFERENT MARKET SETTING
Nintendo DS is a manifestation of Nintendo's thinking - an affordable device that plays simple yet fun games, with low-spec components and day one profitability on HW.

4. USE THE NARROW YET TALENTED DEVELOPMENT BANDWIDTH WISELY
Nintendo's development and 2nd party management resources are very limited but extremely talented. Nintendo can maximize the benefit of them by using them to do a multitude of smaller projects. Nintendo DS software (in Japan) has shown the most astounding shift we've seen in 10 years towards entirely new types of content - simpler, shorter, more accessible titles. Key examples of very recent franchises are:
- Elektroplankton
- Nintendogs
- Brain Training for Adults
- Made in Wario
- Polarium
- Daikasso! Band Brothers
- Another Code
- Simple DS

5. CATER A LIMITED "BIG SCALE" OFFERING OF SURE HITS
Nintendo realizes that within the people who buy simple and fun devices there is some, albeit limited, appreciation for deeper and more immersive games. Hence, Nintendo keeps on bringing out a limited amount of big scale blockbusters, such as Zelda and Metroid.

6. CREATE NEW CHANNEL OF DISTRIBUTION TO OVERCOME RETAIL SHORTHAND
Nintendo has been experimenting on online distribution and DRM with iQue for some while. These learnings will be leveraged on Revolution and the back catalog.

7. TAKE HOME CONSOLE TO A SIMILAR ROUTE AS DS - NOT CUTTING EDGE BUT FUN
Everything we know about Revolution shows that it follows the DS example of innovating through simpler games and intuitive controls. Key factors for Revolution are
- Day 1 profitability on hardware due to lower spec components
- Deliver bare acceptable minimum to minimize cost, as with no HD
- Innovate on interface to create new types of games, the "revolution"
- Very easily accessible hardware that is easy to fire up for short gaming sessions

8. LEGITIMIZE NEW "SIMPLE GAMING" APPROACH WITH MARKET NEED
Nintendo's rhetoric has been for a long time that "games have become too complex" and "gamers have gotten bored". They key here, I believe, is that Nintendo believes that it cannot have a competitive edge on complex games in a big scale - their development pipeline doesn't scale to 10-20 games per year, nor does their 2nd party management capability.

The conclusions I would make at this point is that

- Expect difference between Revolution and PS3 / Xbox 360 reflect difference between PSP and DS
- Nintendo will not be doing high end multimedia devices
- Nintendo will not be doing "PSP killers" or "PS3 killers"
- Nintendo will do simple and affordable devices
- Microsoft and Sony will compete traditional market to zero profitability
- Nintendo will make a lot of money





not my ideas completely. But this is a very likely scenario for the future of "the big 3".

Nintendo could bring out a small wooden device with a piece of elastic on it with a ball on the end. As long as it has "nintendo" on it, it will sell in Japan.

The past has also proven a few things.
Unlike Microsoft, the current generation has been profitable for Nintendo. Their market share might be a slight bit smaller than that of Microsoft, but they make profit from it, while MS only loses money over it.

next big thing in gaming? my cock in ur ass...now go get me the remote...

AI per NPC and animation.


I played HL2 yesterday and I find it bemusing that after you die the guard troops go back to a walk routine. I acutally wached one of them walk into a table and keep walking on the spot.


Also on a side note. HL2 is good. Dont get me wrong, but there are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many flaws with it, it has totally ruined my perception of what the game would be. I read reviews from established magazines that usually dont talk bollocks (see EDGE) who gave the game 10/10 (they dont do that often at all maybe once every 18 months). I heard people rave on and on about this game about how emmersive it was and how you felt part of the world. I read and heard that the graphics were UBER.......



I've played this game for around 10 hours now and not only were my perception of believability totally shattered the first itme I picked up a gun and shot my NPc "team-mate" only for nothing to happen I also shot various inanimate obejcts for ..... nothing to happen..... christ I must have put about 50 rounds in a radio and it still worked.


You cant tip the boat on the river sections, The whole game is a total corridor shooter where you must go from a--->b in a specific way on a specific path.


Don't get me wrong I hate free-roaming games where you have no idea of what to do next, but I think that is because of poor signposting or whatever, this game is just a plain and simple corridor shooter in an outdoor enviroment. It doesnt even attempt to do ANYTHING like FarCry and I dont even consider that to be free-roaming, again a---->b but at least you can approach that game from almost any angle.


I think some serious serious serious lessons need to be learned from gaming just now if it is going to survive. My attention span for games is slowly beggining to wane due to not a single developer getting any aingle player game right just now. Doom 3 sucked donkey dick, HL2 isnt what its cracked up to be, Halo 2 was just plain boring, Quake 4 looks like its going to suck. Sure most of these games have good or fantastic multiplayer elements to them and personally I think that this is where gaming needs to go.


With the advent of Optical networks being installed in almost every new home thats being built and the next generation of broadband here (upto 8meg a second) I think its time to take computer controlled characters out of the equation for FPS and racing games at least.


ID got the idea right 7 years ago or whatever where it was Quake 3 Arena. Unreal Tournament ETC. The only thing companies need to do now is do something like BF2 but make it massively multiplayer. IE THE vietcong versus THE GI's. 64 - 64 or 128 - 128. Make it so that you can have ranked players that determin squad patterns. Massively destructive enviroments eg If I shoot something it better break. Massive Vehicular enviroments too. IE you could spend a couple of days training to be a pilot or a gunner at a base camp before entering the "real" world of fighting. This would lead to any number of exciting possibilities. You could have people that acutally train you and go into the game with you making sure you do okay.

Its been attempted before with Battlefront, but lets face it, lucas arts is poor at making good games.

AI, nuff said.

On the SP front, Doomer's right on with AI development. About the best so far has been Far Cry (right? Not sure what's better out there...) and even that wasn't brilliant.

On the MP side, I hope some time in the next 5 years an MMOFPS will come along by one of the bigger players, get a big fanbase, and take MP gaming in an interesting direction.

i'm sorry but there is nobody here who can convince me that this game will look like that

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/ ... 03023.html

Tsakali_ wrote:i'm sorry but there is nobody here who can convince me that this game will look like that

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/ ... 03023.html

Then I guess you will have to watch the in-game movies that have been out for a while... It does look that good. And thats on beta 360 kits.

EDIT: Ah, I see which pic your on about. No thats a concept art drawing fool

o'dium wrote:What I mean is, its obvious that in a few years, games will look fan-fucking-tastic, high res textures, high poly models, per wibble wobblers etc

The problem is, this will ALWAYS be the case...

Canis wrote:

o'dium wrote:What I mean is, its obvious that in a few years, games will look fan-fucking-tastic, high res textures, high poly models, per wibble wobblers etc

The problem is, this will ALWAYS be the case...

Exactly. You can always go higher. But thats all most people seem to do, and forget other areas that really do need to be brought back to life.

Good point. I've seen folks cram the graphics in, but it's useless having a great looking bad guy who's physics are all fucked up and who keeps beating it's head against the wall. D3 had better AI, but it still is very limited. Lets hope they do a better job with Q4. I want to battle someone who's smart. I want the battle to be different every time so when I repeat a level I'm not just going from memory. This stuff is rather tough to program, but they can get it done. They have to remember that games will only look so real through a computer monitor. There's a limit to how good something will look. I'm looking forward to the next unreal. Lets hope it's got some damn good physics and solid AI.

"IF" they do another Unreal...

I'm hoping they do, in-house, and another return to a dead sexy na'pali... No more of this "unreal 2" style bollocks, that just wasn't "unreal".

The tech demos they have showed of UE3.0 are fantastic, watch them. The physics are crazy!

o'dium wrote:

Tsakali_ wrote:i'm sorry but there is nobody here who can convince me that this game will look like that

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/747/ ... 03023.html

Then I guess you will have to watch the in-game movies that have been out for a while... It does look that good. And thats on beta 360 kits.

EDIT: Ah, I see which pic your on about. No thats a concept art drawing fool

soon enough they will have to specify what's what

The next big thing in gaming is..better graphics!

no...that's just the next "thing". There's nothing big about it.

I don't know what the next big thing will be, but I know what I want. And what I can prodict.

• * Original games; katamari for instances.
  * Short attention span games.
  * Generated characters by parameters. If there is going to be 100 gards in black spandex and night vision goggles. They might as well vary in size, shape, weight, sex.
  * Dynamic animation, so characters interact with the invirement.
  human simulation. Creating a realistive vertual human.
  * VR. SL proved there is a market.
  * companies that specialize on the development of MMO rendeirng engines.
  * Biology a whole new level of gore. Bodies that bruise. Broken bones, severed lims, Bullet holes.
  * subscription sport games
  online distribution and sells of games, attachment, levels, mods.
  * Free games, with add in the games.
  * advertisements in levels, I hate the idea, but it would give level desgins a way to make profit building levels, and yet still be able to distribute the levels for free.
  * full statistics for online play, even awards
  * tools for player created content.

riddla wrote:The next big thing will be a virus that infects the minds of MMORPG players so they die in their sleep.

It's already happened...something about WoW getting infected and towns and such in the game getting a plague.