Quake3World

Kills On Site wrote:Meaning that I feel that people who volunteer for the military and serve with honor and distinction deserve my respect, our country's respect and the necessary tools to get the job done.

As for the who Iraq situation I have a confusing view kind of. I think the war is justifyable by the fact that the Iraqis are no longer under Saddam's rule and free from that opression. I feel that Bush is a dumbass who should have said that instead of the "OMG they got WMDs!!!" because that was just plain stupid of him. I also think that Bush has really fucked up with the planning and execution of the war. So I do not support the way in which Bush started or is fighting this war, but I support our troops that have freed the Iraqis from Saddam.

That's pretty much exactly how I feel.... I'd guess the majority of the "moderate" US agrees.... Even diehard, full-on liberals felt proud when the Iraqis voted for the 1st time w/o fear of death if they didn't vote for Saddam....

I think hating the troops is a good deterrent for people who want to join the military to slaughter civilians in a bullshit war. Sometimes feelings need to be hurt in order to save lives.

Kills On Site wrote:I will always support the men and women in uniform.

Even rent-a-cops wear uniforms.

ScooterG wrote:That's pretty much exactly how I feel.... I'd guess the majority of the "moderate" US agrees.... Even diehard, full-on liberals felt proud when the Iraqis voted for the 1st time w/o fear of death if they didn't vote for Saddam....

yes, it was great the way all those "liberals" painted their fingers purple to salute the iraqi people who went to the polls thinking they could elect a government who would be able to negotiate a timetable for US/UK withdrawal (refused) and an end to the selling off of iraqi industry to US corporations (also refused). all those idiots who "felt proud" had no idea what the majority of iraqis had even voted for, because WHAT THEY ACTUALLY WANT is considered of no importance. all that matters is that they play their part in a piece of democratic theatre that can be replayed on CNN and give warm feelings to these "liberals"

Kills On Site wrote:I will always support the men and women in uniform. I know that soldiers were killed by Americans after returning home from Vietnam, I hope that that never happens again. I think that everyone, liberal, conservative has the right to protest any war, any administration, any policy and they all have the freedom of speech, but I also feel that our soliders need support, fuck Bush I really do hate him, but our soliders didn't have anything with him getting in office, except for those who voted for him, so I think they should be supported for their volunteering in the military.

can i just ask what exactly are you doing to support your troops? i mean, apart from saying you support them? (paying your taxes doesn't count) to my ears, calls from government to "support our troops" is just code for "shut up if you oppose this war or you're not a patriot"

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

dnoyc wrote:

bitWISE wrote: I had no credit and it was the best I could afford. Sure I could have gotten a 300zx or some other heavily used sports car but that's not what I wanted. I wanted something sleek, sexy and professional. Something I could feel proud of while driving to the job that pays for it. Something that could handle a few years worth of 110 miles per day. I get tons of compliments on it though; last weekend I actually had a group of HS girls yelling at me like my gf wasn't even in the car .

that car doesn't fit any of the requirements you just mentioned.

i'm agreeing that it's certainly not "professional".

Considering I used to drive a 1988 full size Chevy and then a 1990 Ford Probe, this was much better. Sure it doesn't say cubicle guardian as well as a Lexus or Acura but I like it .

seremtan wrote:

ScooterG wrote:That's pretty much exactly how I feel.... I'd guess the majority of the "moderate" US agrees.... Even diehard, full-on liberals felt proud when the Iraqis voted for the 1st time w/o fear of death if they didn't vote for Saddam....

yes, it was great the way all those "liberals" painted their fingers purple to salute the iraqi people who went to the polls thinking they could elect a government who would be able to negotiate a timetable for US/UK withdrawal (refused) and an end to the selling off of iraqi industry to US corporations (also refused). all those idiots who "felt proud" had no idea what the majority of iraqis had even voted for, because WHAT THEY ACTUALLY WANT is considered of no importance. all that matters is that they play their part in a piece of democratic theatre that can be replayed on CNN and give warm feelings to these "liberals"

Yeah, I hear ya.... I know they're not getting everything they thought they would and the US' motives are not always virtuous, but I try to look for the positives, and ending Saddam's regime is one of them....

EDIT: Wasn't it the neo-cons who waved the "purple fingers of solidarity" at the State of the Union? Dorks.

seremtan wrote:

Kills On Site wrote:I will always support the men and women in uniform. I know that soldiers were killed by Americans after returning home from Vietnam, I hope that that never happens again. I think that everyone, liberal, conservative has the right to protest any war, any administration, any policy and they all have the freedom of speech, but I also feel that our soliders need support, fuck Bush I really do hate him, but our soliders didn't have anything with him getting in office, except for those who voted for him, so I think they should be supported for their volunteering in the military.

can i just ask what exactly are you doing to support your troops? i mean, apart from saying you support them? (paying your taxes doesn't count) to my ears, calls from government to "support our troops" is just code for "shut up if you oppose this war or you're not a patriot"

Well the thing is like I said, everyone has a freedom of speach. So you can say and believe what you want. That is what is so awesome

haha "cubicle guardian'

haha "freedom of speach'

glossy wrote:haha "freedom of speach'

haha "speach"

haha "americans"

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:haha "cubicle guardian'

Sometimes I feel like that should be a task on my Niku timesheet I got stuck as level 2 support (I support shit the help desk can't fix) so I get like no fucking calls and no dev work.

Grudge wrote:haha "americans"

boring

bitWISE wrote:

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:haha "cubicle guardian'

Sometimes I feel like that should be a task on my Niku timesheet I got stuck as level 2 support (I support shit the help desk can't fix) so I get like no fucking calls and no dev work.

haha Niku rox (not really). i have to do quarter hour increments and have almost 20 different fields to fill out.

so to sum up, Kills on Site (sp?) has a small penis

Kills On Site wrote: Well the thing is like I said, everyone has a freedom of speach. So you can say and believe what you want. That is what is so awesome

Honestly, where do you come up with this stuff? It's just not true at all... personal freedom has declined in Iraq since the removal of Saddam, not increased.

It used to be possible to order alcohol in bars, listen to western music and not wear a beard. Now you'll get murderous wahhabist freaks who'll chop your head of when you do any of those things. Iraq was also quite an emancipated country for middle eastern standards regarding womens rights - not anymore.

Sure, you used to get at least a couple of years of horrible Iraqi prison if you said anything bad about Saddam and there was a reasonable chance you'd just dissapear, but the same goes for saying bad things about the insurgents or the paramilitary death squads these days. Except you won't get prison, they'll just kill you on the spot.

Kills On Site wrote:

seremtan wrote:

Kills On Site wrote:I will always support the men and women in uniform. I know that soldiers were killed by Americans after returning home from Vietnam, I hope that that never happens again. I think that everyone, liberal, conservative has the right to protest any war, any administration, any policy and they all have the freedom of speech, but I also feel that our soliders need support, fuck Bush I really do hate him, but our soliders didn't have anything with him getting in office, except for those who voted for him, so I think they should be supported for their volunteering in the military.

can i just ask what exactly are you doing to support your troops? i mean, apart from saying you support them? (paying your taxes doesn't count) to my ears, calls from government to "support our troops" is just code for "shut up if you oppose this war or you're not a patriot"

Well the thing is like I said, everyone has a freedom of speach. So you can say and believe what you want. That is what is so awesome

i don't really understand how this post answers my question unless i'm missing something. i wonder sometimes if free speech is seen by elites (business/government) as nothing more than a safety valve, i.e. you can speak freely, just don't try to radically change anything in the process

same here - when i read it my first thought was that he has the right to his opinion because of freedom of speech.

but that's not really a reply.

It's like someone asking me to justify why I think the sky is inhabited by invisible flying iguanas and my reply consists of praising the virtues of free speech...

So, from what I can kind of see here with my cursory reading of this thead - people think that the 'I support the troops but disagree with the war entirely' position is a bit off.

My question to those folks (jules maybe) - what should we think about those young men and women who are over there, many fighting a war they absolutely do not want to, but realizing that following their duty is required of them - both for their own safety and for the safety of others? Should we only say that we support those troops who are trying to go AWOL or sabatoging the war effort? Or should we regard them all with equal contempt?

I don't believe contempt is the right answer. I am not advocating for a certain attitude toward the troops.

Rather, I'm concerned with those who claim to support the troops to specify what exactly they mean.

It's an ambiguous "verb", and needs clarification, since it can mean an entire range of things.

Yet I feel that many who claim to "support the troops" do not even reflect upon what this might mean - they are just saying it because they believe it's right to do so.

the point of my question to KOS was to get at what exactly "support" means beyond just having a certain mental attitude or thinking a certain way about 'our troops'. i mean, i could support a political party by voting for them or donating to them for example. what's equivalent of that regards the troops?