Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 10:41 pm
I actually beveled the edges on the blocks and in some cases added small amounts of detail.
Page 4 of 5
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:40 pm
Strange... that should have made "holes" in your walls and floors. Then again, your bevels seem to very fine less than 1u, and all your blocks are textured, so one would almost never see holes. My caulked edges in walls stand out pretty badly by contrast. Oh well
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:03 am
You are correct, the holes are hard to see though but they do exist. In the case of a proper art pass though this would be a consideration and the holes would be covered in some way.AEon wrote:Strange... that should have made "holes" in your walls and floors. Then again, your bevels seem to very fine less than 1u, and all your blocks are textured, so one would almost never see holes. My caulked edges in walls stand out pretty badly by contrast. Oh well
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:27 pm
Castle,
BTW looking forward to more videoes on Tesseract (follow link for free download of the game). About 10 days ago I installed that game. It seems to be quite amazing what can be done with it... another 3D-view-only editor that may inspire what could be done in Reflex. Though I found that using the FPS crosshair to edit a bit unprecise... then it occurred to me that a "good mapper" would probably reduce the mouse sensitivity for edit mode. Also looked at the edit key bindings of that game and there is a lot there.
Today I looked into the .ogz map format (under e.g. Tesseract\media\map\complex.ogz), a packed binary format my Total Commander file browser was able to unpack (gnu zip or something, not sure). The unpacked file has no file name extension but is in "TMAP" format, alas also a binary. The first few entries in that file (for the map complex) seem to mention things like sunlightyaw, atmoclarity, sunlightscale, skylightscale... one guess is they are attached to the "worldspawn" entity (i.e. any brush, if Tesseract actually had them) as Q3A and Reflex have.
Maybe the above slightly helps. Anyway interesting game and editor.
BTW looking forward to more videoes on Tesseract (follow link for free download of the game). About 10 days ago I installed that game. It seems to be quite amazing what can be done with it... another 3D-view-only editor that may inspire what could be done in Reflex. Though I found that using the FPS crosshair to edit a bit unprecise... then it occurred to me that a "good mapper" would probably reduce the mouse sensitivity for edit mode. Also looked at the edit key bindings of that game and there is a lot there.
Today I looked into the .ogz map format (under e.g. Tesseract\media\map\complex.ogz), a packed binary format my Total Commander file browser was able to unpack (gnu zip or something, not sure). The unpacked file has no file name extension but is in "TMAP" format, alas also a binary. The first few entries in that file (for the map complex) seem to mention things like sunlightyaw, atmoclarity, sunlightscale, skylightscale... one guess is they are attached to the "worldspawn" entity (i.e. any brush, if Tesseract actually had them) as Q3A and Reflex have.
Maybe the above slightly helps. Anyway interesting game and editor.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 4:33 pm
One of the things I have started to do, while trying to plug the holes in the walls, is simplify the geometry, i.e. instead of using 5 cubes... turn them into only one block... slightly adds some variation to the blocky look... and reduces the number of holes in the map.
- AEblocks, less holes - tedious... but slowly all the hole in the walls are getting plugged.
- AEblocks, water feature - probably will be adding something like a water curtain under the bridge too.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:32 am
So, after a week of work, I pretty much plugged all the holes in the map (must have been around 1000)... except for about 30+ I found after the compile. Finally I can get back to actually building something, instead of repairing the map.
Since I usually build maps using most of the existing geometry as caulk hull... not having any such hull takes a bit of getting used to. To optimized player clip, you usually work towards filling all areas of the caulk hull, to minimize the space the bots will then roam in... a space map is a bit different in that respect. So, I'll have to create caulk hull first, and get it "airtight"... oh joy
. Hopefully that will take only a day...
Since I usually build maps using most of the existing geometry as caulk hull... not having any such hull takes a bit of getting used to. To optimized player clip, you usually work towards filling all areas of the caulk hull, to minimize the space the bots will then roam in... a space map is a bit different in that respect. So, I'll have to create caulk hull first, and get it "airtight"... oh joy
. Hopefully that will take only a day...Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 9:21 pm
After quite a bit more work than I had hoped, finished the caulk hull... looks like a real map now...
I was happy to find out that my careful caulk hull build has not messed into the lighting of the otherwise detail brush map... a few more holes have become more apparent though, so those will also need fixing... but only around 20 or so.
Running about, the caulk hull started to cull parts of the map... alas not quite as well as I would have hope... but that is normal... hint brushes will need to be added soon. Most of the time the tris count is at 15-20k... but in a few areas it ups to 35k briefly... not so wonderful. Though I am pretty sure a few hint brushes will bring it down to worst case 25k... hopefully.
Alas the bot compile still fails even with a caulk hull... too many patches in the map apparently... and bot clipping the winding patch ramps could get ugly. Not sure how to approach this properly... anyway player and bot clip is next... hopefully that gets the map finally working with bots for me to play test the gameplay of the map.
- AEblocks, caulk hull — the hull in Radiant, huge ceiling/sky brush removed
I was happy to find out that my careful caulk hull build has not messed into the lighting of the otherwise detail brush map... a few more holes have become more apparent though, so those will also need fixing... but only around 20 or so.
Running about, the caulk hull started to cull parts of the map... alas not quite as well as I would have hope... but that is normal... hint brushes will need to be added soon. Most of the time the tris count is at 15-20k... but in a few areas it ups to 35k briefly... not so wonderful. Though I am pretty sure a few hint brushes will bring it down to worst case 25k... hopefully.
Alas the bot compile still fails even with a caulk hull... too many patches in the map apparently... and bot clipping the winding patch ramps could get ugly. Not sure how to approach this properly... anyway player and bot clip is next... hopefully that gets the map finally working with bots for me to play test the gameplay of the map.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 7:57 pm
AAS File Compile Issues
I am presently player clipping the map... and I had hoped that covering the many patches and walls with clip would not only simplify the pathing for the bots, but also fix the compile error I have been seeing from the very start. I did a output compare of r170 and r170 of the map... and the bspc compile did not improve at all.
Compiling with:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
If the number of patches is a issue, I could simple delete the caulked patch sides of my modules.
Thanks.
Update
From our own thread:
Hmmm... converting patches to models... might be something I could do... creating ASE models is not such a big deal, and I pretty much need to clip them anyway.
Though I would hope someone could up the values for BSPC instead... anyone have a working compile tree installed to "hack" up the values as ydnar suggests?
Would simplifying my patch modules help? I.e. remove unseen caulked patch faces?
I am presently player clipping the map... and I had hoped that covering the many patches and walls with clip would not only simplify the pathing for the bots, but also fix the compile error I have been seeing from the very start. I did a output compare of r170 and r170 of the map... and the bspc compile did not improve at all.
Compiling with:
Code: Select all
bspc.exe -bsp2aas "D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps\aeblocks173.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -optimize
[spoiler]
Code: Select all
D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps>REM ##############################################
D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps>REM ### AAS ######################################
D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps>REM ##############################################
D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps>call D:\Games\Quake3\Radiant\bspc.exe -bsp2aas "D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps\aeblocks173.bsp" -forcesidesvisible -optimize
Opened log bspc.log
BSPC version 2.1h, May 6 2001 16:15:03 by Mr Elusive
forcesidesvisible = true
optimize = true
bsp2aas: D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps\aeblocks173.bsp to D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps\aeblocks173.aas
-- Q3_LoadMapFromBSP --
Loading map from D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps\aeblocks173.bsp...
creating planar surface planes...
searching visible brush sides...
49107 brush sides
49107 brush sides textured out of 49107
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nummapbrushsides = 94082
1354 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
1410 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
1450 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
1490 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2018 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2046 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2192 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2220 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2252 curve brushesWARNING: AAS_CreateCurveBrushes: no winding
2366 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2394 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2687 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2735 curve brushesWARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
WARNING: CM_AddFacetBevels... invalid bevel
2767 curve brushesWARNING: AAS_CreateCurveBrushes: no winding
3886 curve brushesERROR: MAX_MAPFILE_PLANES
Closed log bspc.log
D:\Games\Quake3\baseq3\maps>REM ##############################################
If the number of patches is a issue, I could simple delete the caulked patch sides of my modules.
Thanks.
Update
From our own thread:
My map has *no* models at all in it.33 Q : MAX_MAPFILE_PLANES (max mapfile planes) [kat]
A : Associated with AAS files for BOTs or AI. Usually caused by using large numbers of models (with q3map_clipModel in a shader) or large numbers of patch meshes in a map.
For models - removing q3map_clipModel from shader and manually clipping with weaponsclip (or some other clip brush) seems to fix this.
For patchmesh - depending on the number of models in a map, converting patch mesh work to ase models sometimes helps (leave clipModel out of shader) to remove the error.
But for AAS problems ydnar has noted that "BSPC needs to be updated with larger allowable values for planes, brush sides, etc." This effects any quake3 engined games using BOTs or AI. [kat]
Hmmm... converting patches to models... might be something I could do... creating ASE models is not such a big deal, and I pretty much need to clip them anyway.
Though I would hope someone could up the values for BSPC instead... anyone have a working compile tree installed to "hack" up the values as ydnar suggests?
Would simplifying my patch modules help? I.e. remove unseen caulked patch faces?
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 8:42 pm
So... luckily removing all the unseen caulked patches, was just a few GTKradiant key presses: turn off structural and detail brushes... leaving only the patches in view, then select caulk in the texture browser, and press Shift+A to select all caulked patches and delete them.
According to bspc that removed 920 curved brushes (from 3886 to 2966). The AAS compile works at least again. Hmmm... is 3000 curved brushes another one of those "magic limiting numbers"?
According to bspc that removed 920 curved brushes (from 3886 to 2966). The AAS compile works at least again. Hmmm... is 3000 curved brushes another one of those "magic limiting numbers"?
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:41 pm
My first two matches against hardcore bots, 7 of them up to a frag limit of 100. Found a few trivial issues... but the bots seem to love the map, even in this not completely clipped state (also missing extra health and ammo). They use the JPs and the APs to grab the RA... neat. 7 bots is mayhem though, 5 would probably be more appropriate.
Steeper ramps, though not a problem for the player seem to confuse them though... will be adding botclip steps for them on there.
Over all... map seems to be fun... but needs tweaking.
After fixing the more obvious issues, would upload a first test version for everyone to play... question is... would a 248 MB download be "too" annoying? I still have all of Socks textures in my .pk3.
Steeper ramps, though not a problem for the player seem to confuse them though... will be adding botclip steps for them on there.
Over all... map seems to be fun... but needs tweaking.
After fixing the more obvious issues, would upload a first test version for everyone to play... question is... would a 248 MB download be "too" annoying? I still have all of Socks textures in my .pk3.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:43 pm
EEK
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Wed Jan 28, 2015 9:50 pm
Seems I need to look through my folders and find a "packer" tool that sorts out all the stuff the map actually uses
Update: Strange, even though I do not really use that many textures from Sock's Industrial Set (36 presently) I am already up at 45.3 MB pk3 file size.
Update: Strange, even though I do not really use that many textures from Sock's Industrial Set (36 presently) I am already up at 45.3 MB pk3 file size.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:13 pm
So... cleaning up AEblocks now... to polish it for final release (though that will be probably two more weeks of work).
But one thing I have learned about all this is that bevels are evil... and that for my next map also using modules, I will create a "dumbed down" set of blocks that use mildly clever texturing instead to fake the look of real "angled edges"... this way I can build the map quickly and it will look not completely trivial, but automatically be structural from the start (so I can skip having to create a caulk hull and also having to create a player clip hull for the bots). And there will be no annoying holes in the walls and floors. This way I can experiment with the layout for longer.
This means creating a slew of new crete textures based on Sock's Industrial set, that has "texture edges" (outlines of sort) added to them... following the shapes of the geometry. I may probably be getting into all sorts of trouble with the textures in this next map.
Presently, any significant change to the AEblocks layout would almost be as painful as trying to do that to AEdm7... well not really... but the more detail I add the worse it would get. And the one thing I did learn was that I really need to be able to play the map against bots from the very start... and not towards the end of the build process.
Onwards to the stars... or something...
But one thing I have learned about all this is that bevels are evil
... and that for my next map also using modules, I will create a "dumbed down" set of blocks that use mildly clever texturing instead to fake the look of real "angled edges"... this way I can build the map quickly and it will look not completely trivial, but automatically be structural from the start (so I can skip having to create a caulk hull and also having to create a player clip hull for the bots). And there will be no annoying holes in the walls and floors. This way I can experiment with the layout for longer.This means creating a slew of new crete textures based on Sock's Industrial set, that has "texture edges" (outlines of sort) added to them... following the shapes of the geometry. I may probably be getting into all sorts of trouble with the textures in this next map.
Presently, any significant change to the AEblocks layout would almost be as painful as trying to do that to AEdm7... well not really... but the more detail I add the worse it would get. And the one thing I did learn was that I really need to be able to play the map against bots from the very start... and not towards the end of the build process.
Onwards to the stars... or something...
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 4:43 am
Starting to add decals and plants to the map. Gives the map a more "living" feel.
- AEblocks, its "water under the bridge" - adding greenery to the map, Sock's POM plants.
- AEblocks, the tree - Tree lighting still needs better motivation.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 5:30 am
With that much water around that concrete there would be moss/algae growing on concrete in gradient form
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:35 pm
Looks really cool AEon. I see some sparklies in the tree screenshot though, in the bulkhead above the passage on the left.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:48 pm
Theftbot,
the map world may be brand spanking new... or they clean up all the moss/algae on a daily basis...... but you did remind me of a "moss"-ish decal texture I could place in a few areas... that might help.
Eraser,
Thanks... ironically those "sparklies" are actually angled edges that for some reason or other get a huge amount of direct sunlight from the skybox, making them brighter than the ambient texture faces. Since Q3A, IIRC, does not have AA, they then end up looking like that when you look at the lit angled face from a "strange" angle.
Anyone had such a problem before and found a solution? I.e. angled faces and "strange" lighting. I am probably doing something wrong here.
Hacky Solution: I actually cut off some of the angled edges, to make them flush with the brushes above it (or below it in a few other cases)... a very bad brushwork hack... but that slightly helped.
There are other strange lighting issues... almost like light-wells along some of my geometry... even though all the brushwork above should be "air-tight". Strange. Will get back to such cases towards the end of the map build, when I'll make a concerted effort to fix all such lighting issues.
the map world may be brand spanking new... or they clean up all the moss/algae on a daily basis...
... but you did remind me of a "moss"-ish decal texture I could place in a few areas... that might help.Eraser,
Thanks
... ironically those "sparklies" are actually angled edges that for some reason or other get a huge amount of direct sunlight from the skybox, making them brighter than the ambient texture faces. Since Q3A, IIRC, does not have AA, they then end up looking like that when you look at the lit angled face from a "strange" angle.Anyone had such a problem before and found a solution? I.e. angled faces and "strange" lighting. I am probably doing something wrong here.
Hacky Solution: I actually cut off some of the angled edges, to make them flush with the brushes above it (or below it in a few other cases)... a very bad brushwork hack... but that slightly helped.
There are other strange lighting issues... almost like light-wells along some of my geometry... even though all the brushwork above should be "air-tight". Strange. Will get back to such cases towards the end of the map build, when I'll make a concerted effort to fix all such lighting issues.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:49 pm
AEblocks II - The Return of the Decals
Even though AEblocks will take another few days to finish off... I was thinking about the new set of modules that does not us bevels but fakes that look using "edges" via decals. Hmm... there was a shader "effect" that seems to have done something like that, forgot how it was called though.
Initially I thought it would be best to create a huge collection of textures with such dark edges for the various module shapes... but if you bake the decal onto a texture, so to speak, you cannot change the main texture on the fly and you would need to create many variations of modules, i.e. for each main texture you want to add. Extremely redundant, and would also bloat the .pk3 file size.
Question: Is there a downside to using massive amounts of decals?
Thankfully... all new modules will be basic without, as mentioned, bevels, i.e. true cubes, ramps etc. Very easy to create, no unwanted holes in geometry. So they will be minimal in tris, and plastering decals on them should be also simple. Also the modules should actually take advantage of the compile optimization process, i.e. I can use the modules to crate the caulk hull directly, not having to create a caulk hull manually like before.
Question 2: Did q3map2A merge brushes? E.g. a wall made up of 5x3 cubes would become one large brush during compile? I think this has been happening, but I am not quite aware of the details and limitations. Manual mitering seemed to mess into automatic brush merging during compile, IIRC.
Will be fun to create simplified modules and the new decals for them. Hopefully this lets me create some new shapes that were to complicated to properly do for the bevelled module versions.
Even though AEblocks will take another few days to finish off... I was thinking about the new set of modules that does not us bevels but fakes that look using "edges" via decals. Hmm... there was a shader "effect" that seems to have done something like that, forgot how it was called though.
Initially I thought it would be best to create a huge collection of textures with such dark edges for the various module shapes... but if you bake the decal onto a texture, so to speak, you cannot change the main texture on the fly and you would need to create many variations of modules, i.e. for each main texture you want to add. Extremely redundant, and would also bloat the .pk3 file size.
Question: Is there a downside to using massive amounts of decals?
Thankfully... all new modules will be basic without, as mentioned, bevels, i.e. true cubes, ramps etc. Very easy to create, no unwanted holes in geometry. So they will be minimal in tris, and plastering decals on them should be also simple. Also the modules should actually take advantage of the compile optimization process, i.e. I can use the modules to crate the caulk hull directly, not having to create a caulk hull manually like before.
Question 2: Did q3map2A merge brushes? E.g. a wall made up of 5x3 cubes would become one large brush during compile? I think this has been happening, but I am not quite aware of the details and limitations. Manual mitering seemed to mess into automatic brush merging during compile, IIRC.
Will be fun to create simplified modules and the new decals for them. Hopefully this lets me create some new shapes that were to complicated to properly do for the bevelled module versions.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:38 pm
Starting a new set of much more simple module blocks, for AEmod, that will be covered with "edge decals":
Grey and orange chequered look is only to better set off the brushes.
Grey and orange chequered look is only to better set off the brushes.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 8:59 pm
Depends on what you mean by "massive". They certainly add polys and an extra rendering pass with a blendFunc. Generally, this is manageable but I imagine on certain extremes, it could possibly break something/be bad for performance.AEon wrote:Question: Is there a downside to using massive amounts of decals?
Yes and no. Surfaces might become merged if they have co-planar faces and form a convex shape. Also, any differences in textures, shaders, texture coordinates, brush properties, etc. will also prevent them from merging. I'm pretty sure detail brushes will prevent merging, but don't quote me on that. Strictly speaking, Q3Map2 doesn't really merge entire brushes the way the editor might with CSG Merge. It turns all visible surfaces into triangle soup, then tries to remove certain unnecessary stuff like T-juncs if possible, thereby removing unnecessary vertexes and edges.AEon wrote:Question 2: Did q3map2A merge brushes?
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Tue Feb 03, 2015 9:04 pm
obsidian,
thanks... I was aware of most of your points regarding the "merge", but having them concisely listed certainly helps. So it is still a good idea to manually merge brushes, when one notices them. Did that pretty much all these years.
About the amount of decals... pretty much every visible face will also have a decal on it too. Though there is some room for optimization... i.e. a wall would not be made up of many cube faces, but one larger brush, and one larger decal brush.
thanks... I was aware of most of your points regarding the "merge", but having them concisely listed certainly helps. So it is still a good idea to manually merge brushes, when one notices them. Did that pretty much all these years.
About the amount of decals... pretty much every visible face will also have a decal on it too. Though there is some room for optimization... i.e. a wall would not be made up of many cube faces, but one larger brush, and one larger decal brush.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:48 pm
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:41 am
This is always a good read if you haven't already read it. It'll give you some things to consider as you think aboot your various workflows and methods.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JoelBurg ... Design.php
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/JoelBurg ... Design.php
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 8:01 am
I decided to drop the corridor layout... even though it is systematic, it is boring IMO, and was not getting anywhere. The decal outlines I created are subtle and look OK, but somehow the new simpler blocks are a lot less inspirational.
Looking into a texture set by philipk: that was created for Quake 4 initially. Will need a lot of work to create the shaders for Q3A though (or did someone already create such shaders?), and obviously any specular or bump-mapping will not be usable. The textures looks really nice and Science-Fictiony. Maybe I can come up with something.
wattro,
I played about 700 hours of Skyrim, and was really impressed how they were able to e.g. make every cave look different even though the devs apparently only had a limited set of assets to do that. Seems like the article will be a very interesting read, thanks.
Looking into a texture set by philipk: that was created for Quake 4 initially. Will need a lot of work to create the shaders for Q3A though (or did someone already create such shaders?), and obviously any specular or bump-mapping will not be usable. The textures looks really nice and Science-Fictiony. Maybe I can come up with something.
wattro,
I played about 700 hours of Skyrim, and was really impressed how they were able to e.g. make every cave look different even though the devs apparently only had a limited set of assets to do that. Seems like the article will be a very interesting read, thanks.
Re: AEblocks - Modular Mapping
Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 9:48 am
Thoughts (basically repeating some of the concepts in the article, commenting on them):wattro wrote:
Indeed an interesting read... it turns out that in most cases I did the right things for my first set of modules or kit as it called in the article. Keeping the size of the player in mind, define the footprint of your basic blocks (64u in my case, paths are 3-4 blocks wide), also think about the height doorways should have and how high corridors and rooms should be (also about 3-4 blocks in my case). Create the basic pieces to "block out" your layout, and then add additional pieces for details, using multiples of the largest possible grid. When naming try to think of an easy to remember and understand format and apply it consistently. Did the latter for the outline decals in my second kit, and that really helped.
So I did already do most of the things "properly" or came up with similar solutions. But the article still inspires by demonstrating that what you (I) came up with, already has been tried and tested by professionals, plus they came up with new and different ideas to go steps further. Will take some more thinking on my part to see how any of those ideas could be used for a map.
Castle's proof of concept in his map using modules was far more of an eye-opener to me. Though Castle may have been aware of this article or the ideas presented... and I just analysed what Castle did quite thoroughly.
Looking at this Skyrim kit screenshot, is much more of an inspiration to me, because it presents a working solution to what modules might be needed to create e.g. corridors or tile floors:
- [lvlshot]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-q7M9ZyKUWpI/UXAcJT3pSUI/AAAAAAAAAak/FvXRSHtOsik/s1600/DwarvenKitShot.png[/lvlshot]
Obviously all this is based on a mesh or model approach for mapping, massively using instancing, not a brush-based one as I had to do in Q3A.
Interesting how the topic of the pivot point also came up. In my very quick model test that seems to have failed (not letting me use many models in Q3A for some reason, i.e the compile failed), Hipshot pointed out that I should have placed the pivot point of my basic cube in the centre of the cube. He was right of course.
Hero Pieces (visually unique meshes, rarely used)... I think so far I tried to come up with unusual ways of using the basic kit pieces to create something of "Hero Piece"... the flooring design under the Quad would be such an example. Creating of really unique pieces is something to think about though...
"Going off the Grid - Pivot and Flange"... here things get evil for Q3A. Just filling gaps with other meshes is not something you will want to do in Radiant. They call it "kit bashing"... but this does open up a few interesting opportunities, if one keeps the "bashing" to an absolute minimum, I could imagine.
Would be interesting to hear about your thoughts and experiences with the above ideas...