What's the closest star to the earth?

[Fjoggs]

Now that you know students don't want to stop and think, the question is how do you make them WANT to stop and think. Especially when it comes to math and science.

Call them idiots. *clap win smack*

[tnf]

Now that you know students don't want to stop and think, the question is how do you make them WANT to stop and think. Especially when it comes to math and science.

I find that fear works well with the freshmen.
I go drill sergeant on them.

[tnf]

I respect that man, but I perceive that there are also vultures amongst our converts who would use this same cause as a source of personal vindiction.

You know?

I think we're on the same page here.

Yea, I'm not asking the question to make fun of the kids or anything like that. It provides a dramatic example of the importance of thinking before writing.

[Tsakali_]

I respect that man, but I perceive that there are also vultures amongst our converts who would use this same cause as a source of personal vindiction.

You know?

I think we're on the same page here.

Yea, I'm not asking the question to make fun of the kids or anything like that. It provides a dramatic example of the importance of thinking before writing.

after the fact, you should make that quiz into extra credit.

all that's been said asside, I'd be ticked off at you too

[tnf]

Yea, most young people today are ticked off when asked to think.

And it was an extra credit question.

[Tsakali_]

well you can't penalize them for not being chalenged before.

their ignorance is as much their fault as it is their previous schooling.

needless to say I like what you're doing but unfortunately ignorance IS an excuse in this matter.

[tnf]

well you can't penalize them for not being chalenged before.

their ignorance is as much their fault as it is their previous schooling.

You haven't paid close attention to my argument. It's been all about the lack of having to think in their previous schooling.

[Tsakali_]

well you can't penalize them for not being chalenged before.

their ignorance is as much their fault as it is their previous schooling.

You haven't paid close attention to my argument. It's been all about the lack of having to think in their previous schooling.

k, yes... I'll stop before I find myself going in circles :icon32:

[Lenard]

I agree 100% with this style of schooling. Any really good teacher should make their highest goal the future of their students. There is no better way to ensure that than to install propper problem solving skills and a work ethic at a young age.

[Transient]

Trans-
that's a roll reversal in a way, where the teacher is the student and the student becomes somewhat the teacher. Now imagine all your teachers using a similar method, in effect they have introdused the students with all these different methods of tackling a problem/question...what level was this teacher on? highschool/ college?

College. It was a Freshman course.

[tnf]

I agree 100% with this style of schooling. Any really good teacher should make their highest goal the future of their students. There is no better way to ensure that than to install propper problem solving skills and a work ethic at a young age.

I try to give my kids a 'toolbox' of skills that they can take with them with them to solve all manners of problems life might throw at them.

[menkent]

hah, in my class i made my (2nd semester german) students interview one another about how much they spend on various things in their budget etc and graph their results to present their findings to the class. these are college students, and you'd think i'd asked them to invent a cold fusion generator using only popsicle sticks and dried beans. >_<
bar graph, motherfuckers! you can do it!

[MKJ]

obviously people will neglect the sun as their answer - even though they know its a star. society (scientists included) make single out the sun entirely when talking about space - "the sun, the moon and the stars" for instance. referring to the sun as "a sun" rather than "a star" is as common as naming God "God" rather than "a god named [insert one of the biblical variations here" or calling the moon "the Moon" rather than "Luna" or even "a sattelite".

for a teacher you kinda word your questions poorly, tnf you shouldve asked "what kind of body is the sun?" a) star b) planet c) sun is a classification by itself
homo

Odd that you would think I don't write good questions....I guess I write test questions well enough to have been one of the people who wrote questions for the test bank that accompanies this textbook series:
http://www.whfreeman.com/thelifewirebridge2/

I also co-wrote the instructor's manual for that series, and for another book by the same company designed for non-science majors taking biology.

Good thing they didn't talk to you before paying me for the work.

People who think this was in some way a trick question need to realize that students today do not STOP AND THINK about questions. They cannot decode questions. And the bottom line is this is FAR from a poorly worded question. There's absolutely no trick to it. But you need to STOP AND THINK before you answer it. That was the point here. I am trying to get kids to STOP AND THINK before they answer questions. Forgive me for being a bit put off by the insult. I struggle mightily getting young people to apply logic to an answer. They are so trained by this age to simply look up info and regurgitate it that they rarely engage the material before answering. If I give a simple reading assignment with some questions to accompany it, most of the students will read the questions, then just skim around the text until they find direct answers. They write them down and call it good. It works in history and other subjects for them, or they wouldn't do it. But I give them questions that they won't find direct answers to in the reading. They'll get the information they need, but they will need to understand and apply it to answer the question. Drives me nuts, because you'll always hear someone complaining "I can't find the answer to #4. It's not in here." Again, they will be looking for a section in the text that directly answers the question - something akin to "What is the closest planet to the sun?" for the question that would let them scan the reading until they found "THE CLOSEST PLANET TO THE SUN IS MERCURY."

It's not a poorly worded question, and I am able to tell the difference between a good and bad question.

whoa, defense mode
let me rephrase - if you wanted to prove your students lack common knowledge you shouldve asked the question so that there was only one direct answer available, technicalities aside

[Whiskey 7]

Sad thing is, if you quizzed some of these kids junior-high science teachers they'd probably come up with some of the same answers.

Good read, and I have no doubt on this tnf :icon26:

[ek]

obviously people will neglect the sun as their answer - even though they know its a star. society (scientists included) make single out the sun entirely when talking about space - "the sun, the moon and the stars" for instance. referring to the sun as "a sun" rather than "a star" is as common as naming God "God" rather than "a god named [insert one of the biblical variations here" or calling the moon "the Moon" rather than "Luna" or even "a sattelite".

for a teacher you kinda word your questions poorly, tnf you shouldve asked "what kind of body is the sun?" a) star b) planet c) sun is a classification by itself
homo

Odd that you would think I don't write good questions....I guess I write test questions well enough to have been one of the people who wrote questions for the test bank that accompanies this textbook series:
http://www.whfreeman.com/thelifewirebridge2/

I also co-wrote the instructor's manual for that series, and for another book by the same company designed for non-science majors taking biology.

Good thing they didn't talk to you before paying me for the work.

People who think this was in some way a trick question need to realize that students today do not STOP AND THINK about questions. They cannot decode questions. And the bottom line is this is FAR from a poorly worded question. There's absolutely no trick to it. But you need to STOP AND THINK before you answer it. That was the point here. I am trying to get kids to STOP AND THINK before they answer questions. Forgive me for being a bit put off by the insult. I struggle mightily getting young people to apply logic to an answer. They are so trained by this age to simply look up info and regurgitate it that they rarely engage the material before answering. If I give a simple reading assignment with some questions to accompany it, most of the students will read the questions, then just skim around the text until they find direct answers. They write them down and call it good. It works in history and other subjects for them, or they wouldn't do it. But I give them questions that they won't find direct answers to in the reading. They'll get the information they need, but they will need to understand and apply it to answer the question. Drives me nuts, because you'll always hear someone complaining "I can't find the answer to #4. It's not in here." Again, they will be looking for a section in the text that directly answers the question - something akin to "What is the closest planet to the sun?" for the question that would let them scan the reading until they found "THE CLOSEST PLANET TO THE SUN IS MERCURY."

It's not a poorly worded question, and I am able to tell the difference between a good and bad question.

whoa, defense mode
let me rephrase - if you wanted to prove your students lack common knowledge you shouldve asked the question so that there was only one direct answer available, technicalities aside

Excuse me, but what fucking technicalities? The Sun is the closest star to Earth. Period.

[Pooinyourmouth]

I think a large part of it stems from a lack of common sense from good parenting also. I knew about the sun, and the stars, and even gravity before the 6th grade. I have my Dad to thank for that, and for spending so much time with me as a child. He also gave me brithday presents that would help teach me and stimulate me to want to learn more. Things like a telescope, or a microscope, and books about our galaxy. He also gave me magic sets to show me that science was involved behind most every illusion.


Teachers only have a students attention for an hour or two out of the day before they are passed off to another, and if the parents have not laid a solid foundation of commen sense, then teachers are only going to be building on a weak stucture. One thing the school systems have never taught, and have rarely used is commen sense. It's a base for almost all learning.

[MKJ]

Odd that you would think I don't write good questions....I guess I write test questions well enough to have been one of the people who wrote questions for the test bank that accompanies this textbook series:
http://www.whfreeman.com/thelifewirebridge2/

I also co-wrote the instructor's manual for that series, and for another book by the same company designed for non-science majors taking biology.

Good thing they didn't talk to you before paying me for the work.

People who think this was in some way a trick question need to realize that students today do not STOP AND THINK about questions. They cannot decode questions. And the bottom line is this is FAR from a poorly worded question. There's absolutely no trick to it. But you need to STOP AND THINK before you answer it. That was the point here. I am trying to get kids to STOP AND THINK before they answer questions. Forgive me for being a bit put off by the insult. I struggle mightily getting young people to apply logic to an answer. They are so trained by this age to simply look up info and regurgitate it that they rarely engage the material before answering. If I give a simple reading assignment with some questions to accompany it, most of the students will read the questions, then just skim around the text until they find direct answers. They write them down and call it good. It works in history and other subjects for them, or they wouldn't do it. But I give them questions that they won't find direct answers to in the reading. They'll get the information they need, but they will need to understand and apply it to answer the question. Drives me nuts, because you'll always hear someone complaining "I can't find the answer to #4. It's not in here." Again, they will be looking for a section in the text that directly answers the question - something akin to "What is the closest planet to the sun?" for the question that would let them scan the reading until they found "THE CLOSEST PLANET TO THE SUN IS MERCURY."

It's not a poorly worded question, and I am able to tell the difference between a good and bad question.

whoa, defense mode
let me rephrase - if you wanted to prove your students lack common knowledge you shouldve asked the question so that there was only one direct answer available, technicalities aside

Excuse me, but what fucking technicalities? The Sun is the closest star to Earth. Period.

read the other post and you'd get it

I think a large part of it stems from a lack of common sense from good parenting also. I knew about the sun, and the stars, and even gravity before the 6th grade

exactly what im talking about. making a disticntion between "the sun" and "the stars" is all too common

[mjrpes]

I agree with Michael Kwanza Jordan, it would have been more interesting a result if the answer was directly in front of them, without chance of being tricked.

[ek]

I did read the other post, thats what is so retarded about it. The only correct answer is the Sun, and since the Sun is a star tnf's question is spot on, no hidden meanings or technicalities. If the student doesnt understand this or know this then bad fucking luck.

Also, I dont really care about the argument if he had the right or didnt have the right to include that kind of question, was totally up to him.

[Pooinyourmouth]

I think a large part of it stems from a lack of common sense from good parenting also. I knew about the sun, and the stars, and even gravity before the 6th grade

exactly what im talking about. making a disticntion between "the sun" and "the stars" is all too common

I didn't say that to make your case though, and I still would have answered the question with our sun as the closest star. It's not even close to a trick question really. Just because the sun is significant to us, does not mean it's not a star. The only distinction is that this star happens to be the center of our solar system, and gives us life. Nothing was wrong with the question, and there is only one right answer.

[ek]

What he said.

[Transient]

I agree with Michael Kwanza Jordan, it would have been more interesting a result if the answer was directly in front of them, without chance of being tricked.

Despite tnf explaining the whole point of this thread multiple times, you still fail to get it. :icon27:

[MKJ]

I think a large part of it stems from a lack of common sense from good parenting also. I knew about the sun, and the stars, and even gravity before the 6th grade

exactly what im talking about. making a disticntion between "the sun" and "the stars" is all too common

I didn't say that to make your case though, and I still would have answered the question with our sun as the closest star. It's not even close to a trick question really. Just because the sun is significant to us, does not mean it's not a star. The only distinction is that this star happens to be the center of our solar system, and gives us life. Nothing was wrong with the question, and there is only one right answer.

oh im not disputing the answer nor am i saying it was a trick question, i'm just advocating the logic applied by society to neglect the sun as the common answer. you applied the same custom, even though you know the sun is the correct answer.

[mjrpes]

I agree with Michael Kwanza Jordan, it would have been more interesting a result if the answer was directly in front of them, without chance of being tricked.

Despite tnf explaining the whole point of this thread multiple times, you still fail to get it. :icon27:

I don't read tnf's posts anymore. They're too long. He needs to take lessons from Freakaloin. Then, ironically, he would be the "student", and Freakaloin his "master".

In Japanese, we have a word for this "master-student" relationship. It is called, Messatsu.

[S@M]

Messsatusu is a bit sexy esp if u get to swap roles

I bought my kids a magnifying glass each, and we do science experiments each week - simple stuff like making crystals, or watching colours diffuse through water. Tried a carb soda rocket but it fizzed :/
paper planes can be good too - prolly a bit young for your mob tnf.