Quake3World

duffman91 wrote:Also, dependencies are no longer a problem with tools like apt-get and apt-rpm. In fact, you can apt-get a new kernel if I recall.

okay wtf is apt-get meant to be ?

RTFM dude

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-h ... ex.en.html

i have to agree with teh Duff. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and hell, even Kanotix needs no command line or script running to get things going. oh, and you only need to click once *gasp*

Dave wrote:RTFM dude

http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-h ... ex.en.html

my point being, the average user doesn't know what it is, and isn't going to look it up. they want to insert OS CD, press "okay", and click on "email".

Seriously, i hope someone comes up with an OS that simple. Every application must be installed to run, and must go into a certain program group, easily accessed (with big icons). Really, you don't need very much customisation from an OS (or its applications), outside of "Full view", "Compact" and "Minimal", because we will live inside our boundaries, if they are adequate. If you weren't able to customise sound schemes (outside of "OS Sounds", "Errors only" and "None"), you wouldn't know any other way (and would probably not care if you couldn't have Quagmire play on startup).

Linux still resides fully in the realm of the nerds, nerds.

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:i have to agree with teh Duff. Ubuntu, Kubuntu, and hell, even Kanotix needs no command line or script running to get things going. oh, and you only need to click once *gasp*

again, try their live cd's, you'd be surprised. unless you have some super old components, it will auto-configure everything.

Grudge wrote:Linux still resides fully in the realm of the nerds, nerds.

aye. was about to post about how we use linux at work and that we've got a solid, reliable system of clients and server that never gives us any grief - then i remembered we only have that because of captain redeye spacecakes along the corridor.

Live CDs are okay but they're static. You get the basic working system you have on the CD and if you want to go beyond that and do things like plug in a USB flash drive, or play a game, then you usually have to move to a proper installation, or mess about with the live CD to get it to go.

Live CDs are ok as a basic demo of a linux build. But from my experience they're practically unconfigurable, and very conveniently hide the big flaw of a lot of linux based oss which is the configuration. People laud them with 'oh try one of the live cds you'll be very impressed!' yeah true, but it's only marginally more of a reflection of the non-live OS as a 3 minute video would be.

Yeah, when my mum's computer next breaks down I'll tell her to apt-get a new kernel.

Anyway, Debian is still riddled with dependancies. The main benefit is that when there's a dependancy issue, a completely incomprehensible page of text pops up wich doesn't tell you how to deal with it.

Geebs wrote:Yeah, when my mum's computer next breaks down I'll tell her to apt-get a new kernel.

yes because most moms know how to reformat.

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

Geebs wrote:Yeah, when my mum's computer next breaks down I'll tell her to apt-get a new kernel.

yes because most moms know how to reformat.

See, that's exactly my point. To somebody that's never used a computer(or just isn't a techie), formating and fdisking is no different to apt-get or kernel compilation(which is unnecessary for regular use).

The tools today for the "hard" aspects of linux make it mind numbing. In freeBSD, kernel compilation is just a few steps.

If you really want to go pound for pound, you can get a pc with OS, media player/browsers, and an office suite in less clicks in Ubuntu than you can in Windows.

I realize it comes down to a matter of taste. My point still focuses on the concept that most criticism for windows or Linux happens to be moot.

The complaints about windows and the complaints about linux were only valid 6 years ago. Since then, much has changed. My XP pc and my Debian pc both run perfectly and have had constant "desktop" use. Both have an office suite, both play mp3s, etc, etc.

I haven't touched Dos or the linux command line in ages.

I contend that if people had never used Windows then there would be no huge outcry over the "difficulty" of using linux.

Not really. Windows is a ubiquitous, well supported operating system that does a surprisingly good job of running on any old mishmash of random, sloppily assembled hardware. It's also been designed to be usable with a mouse with less than 3 buttons, and never requires the average user to fart about with terminal windows.

On the other hand, once you've got your OS and media players with linux, you (the average computer user) are still stuck wondering:

a) how the hell do you use this badly organised interface, the only sensible features of which have been ripped off from Windows in the first place? Do I need to left, right or middle click this icon? Why are all the help files either not written, incomprehensible, shit or just a short document saying "if you can't set this up, you must be stupid"
b) why does none of the software I can get run?
c) who needs 5000 text editors and paranoid-grade crypto anyway?

Moms the world over are saying "Ubunt-who?"

Geebs wrote:Not really. Windows is a ubiquitous, well supported operating system that does a surprisingly good job of running on any old mishmash of random, sloppily assembled hardware. It's also been designed to be usable with a mouse with less than 3 buttons, and never requires the average user to fart about with terminal windows.

On the other hand, once you've got your OS and media players with linux, you (the average computer user) are still stuck wondering:

a) how the hell do you use this badly organised interface, the only sensible features of which have been ripped off from Windows in the first place? Do I need to left, right or middle click this icon? Why are all the help files either not written, incomprehensible, shit or just a short document saying "if you can't set this up, you must be stupid"
b) why does none of the software I can get run?
c) who needs 5000 text editors and paranoid-grade crypto anyway?

Moms the world over are saying "Ubunt-who?"

as Duff pointed out: that crap is five or six years old, what you're referring to.

unusable with a mouse with less than three buttons? wut?

You tried to install fonts for a *nix version of the GIMP recently?

I've been using apt-get pretty recently and it's still a pain in the arse.... and that's the EASY part. I've messed about with recent versions of both K and GNOME and they're both shit - it's easier to get a novelty clock to zip all over your desktop than find the root on your hard disk.

Then again, I am used to the most ergonomic, best designed OS out there

Geebs wrote:
Then again, I am used to the most ergonomic, best designed OS out there

Hehe, I luv OS X

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

as Duff pointed out: that crap is five or six years old, what you're referring to.

unusable with a mouse with less than three buttons? wut?

Those point sabout *nix are almost as valid today as they were back then but most of the nerds who use technology all the time just can't see it. Technical jargon and troubleshooting are part of how they think so its easy to forget that most users who are the majority still have trouble now and then with basic Word and Outlook navigation, let alone configuring poorly documented apps on a non-standard OS which is completely different than anything they are used to.

*nix has come a long ways but still has much further to go before it is truly ready for the average employee or home user.