#IStandWithAhmed

[Silicone_Milk]

Opening a clock, looking at which wires connect to which parts of a circuit board, and moving the parts into another case is not impressive for a 14-year-old unless maybe he was mentally challenged and had the mental capacity of a 6-year-old. It's a clock. Look at it. It's got like 6 wires max. It was probably beeping because it was an alarm clock with a 9-volt battery attached and it just happened to hit the time to go off.

Even better, he didn't even need to mess with any of the wires at all lol
[youtube]VncIUsm2g-c[/youtube]

Also, word is, his sister was suspended for making a bomb threat at that very same school 3 years earlier. I can't find any reputable news sources to confirm that though but holy fuck that'd be hilarious if it turns out to be confirmed.

[Eraser]

Everyone wants to assume it's a bomb and prove it's not. I would rather assume it's not and prove that it is.

[Eraser]

now why that seems more likely? Because Ahmed went ahead and admitted that his clock was suspicious to begin with

Or, maybe he though "I really do not want this to look suspicious, so I'm taking extra precautions to make sure it doesn't".
At this point that's all speculation and assumption, but like Transient said, it's almost Ahmed's guilty until proven innocent.

There's no credible source that can prove his intentions were ill mannered and we may never know what the intentions were. So all I've got to base my judgment here is that there's a kid, who clearly has an above average interest in electrical engineering, who made a clock, brought it to school to show it to his teacher and then everybody else blew the whole thing out of proportion while the kid keeps repeating that it's not a bomb! Doesn't matter, police says, we think it looks like a bomb and therefor you are going to be punished. Justice 101, no?

Maybe slightly beside the point, but he also says he was brought to a juvenile detention center and questioned without his parents being there or him being allowed to contact his parent. It just baffles me that it wasn't his parents that were called first before chiming in the police. Clearly there was no real threat, so there also was no real need for the police to get involved at this stage.

[Eraser]

Oh by the way, I do think all the positive attention he's getting (freebies from Microsoft, messages from POTUS, scholarships from MIT, whatever) is blowing things out of proportion as well. That shouldn't have happened either.

[Silicone_Milk]

So then why is it that he and his supporters are insisting it looks only like a clock and there's no way it could look like anything but a clock if he's admitting that it looked suspicious and was taking steps to make it not suspicious? That doesn't add up. Why would it be suspicious if it were just a simple clock?

He didn't make a clock. That's a pretty important fact that Ahmed's supporters keep glossing over. He unscrewed the cover of an existing clock and placed the parts in a shady looking box. Why is he bringing that to his teacher acting as if it's something to be proud of? Why is he calling this his "invention" when all he did was pull the parts out of a clock?
What, exactly, do you think a kid would say if they DID intend to stir shit up by pulling a clock apart and intentionally trying to make it look like a bomb while maintaining plausible deniability? "Yeah it's a fake bomb you got me guys." ? Of course he's going to say it's not a bomb (it's not) even though it looks like it was designed to make people concerned. I already addressed the police thing twice now but it's as if people aren't actually reading my posts before replying to me or something.

[Silicone_Milk]

Everyone wants to assume it's a bomb and prove it's not. I would rather assume it's not and prove that it is.

Also nobody assumes it's a bomb. At all. That's not what's being said. What's being assumed is that it was made to look like it could be a bomb on purpose because this kid's a rabble-rouser.

[Eraser]

So then why is it that he and his supporters are insisting it looks only like a clock and there's no way it could look like anything but a clock if he's admitting that it looked suspicious and was taking steps to make it not suspicious? That doesn't add up.

Nope, I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible for anyone to not understand what it is. I'm also not saying the teacher shouldn't have asked him what it is and let him explain. I'm also not saying the principle shouldn't get involved. I'm also not saying that it would be out of bounds to call his parents.

What I'm saying is that it feels like too much of a knee jerk reaction to call the police, who then handcuff him (usually reserved to those who actually form a threat to the officers involved), arrest him, bring him to a juvenile detention center, deny him contact with his parents and start questioning him (probably without the presence of a lawyer).

He didn't make a clock. That's a pretty important fact that Ahmed's supporters keep glossing over. He unscrewed the cover of an existing clock and placed the parts in a shady looking box. Why is he bringing that to his teacher acting as if it's something to be proud of? Why is he calling this his "invention" when all he did was pull the parts out of a clock?

Irrelevant. This is all after-the-fact information. At the moment it happened, no one considered the amount of engineering involved. Besides, would it be any different if he actually hand-made a clock from scratch? I guess not. Even if his intentions were bad, this whole thing could've been contained and kept out of the media by not getting the police, handcuffs, detention centers and interrogation rooms involved in the first place. That's basically the point I'm trying to make.

I can't judge about his intentions because I'm not sure what they were. A lot of people are bringing all sorts of information about his family, phone interviews and whatever into this to prove his intentions were bad. The fact remains that the thing got blown out of proportion not by his intentions but by the way it's been handled.

[Eraser]

Everyone wants to assume it's a bomb and prove it's not. I would rather assume it's not and prove that it is.

Also nobody assumes it's a bomb. At all. That's not what's being said. What's being assumed is that it was made to look like it could be a bomb on purpose because this kid's a rabble-rouser.

Replace "bomb" with "hoax-bomb" and we're set.
But like I said, it's not really relevant to me.

[Silicone_Milk]

So then why is it that he and his supporters are insisting it looks only like a clock and there's no way it could look like anything but a clock if he's admitting that it looked suspicious and was taking steps to make it not suspicious? That doesn't add up.

Nope, I'm not saying it wouldn't be possible for anyone to not understand what it is. I'm also not saying the teacher shouldn't have asked him what it is and let him explain. I'm also not saying the principle shouldn't get involved. I'm also not saying that it would be out of bounds to call his parents.

What I'm saying is that it feels like too much of a knee jerk reaction to call the police, who then handcuff him (usually reserved to those who actually form a threat to the officers involved), arrest him, bring him to a juvenile detention center, deny him contact with his parents and start questioning him (probably without the presence of a lawyer).

He didn't make a clock. That's a pretty important fact that Ahmed's supporters keep glossing over. He unscrewed the cover of an existing clock and placed the parts in a shady looking box. Why is he bringing that to his teacher acting as if it's something to be proud of? Why is he calling this his "invention" when all he did was pull the parts out of a clock?

Irrelevant. This is all after-the-fact information. At the moment it happened, no one considered the amount of engineering involved. Besides, would it be any different if he actually hand-made a clock from scratch? I guess not. Even if his intentions were bad, this whole thing could've been contained and kept out of the media by not getting the police, handcuffs, detention centers and interrogation rooms involved in the first place. That's basically the point I'm trying to make.

I can't judge about his intentions because I'm not sure what they were. A lot of people are bringing all sorts of information about his family, phone interviews and whatever into this to prove his intentions were bad. The fact remains that the thing got blown out of proportion not by his intentions but by the way it's been handled.

OK so I think we've established that everybody here thinks calling the police was unnecessary?

It's not irrelevant by any means. It doesn't matter if it's "after-the-fact information". His initial claim for bringing the clock in and saying it was his invention (motivation for bringing it to school) would actually sound like the most probable reason if he actually did make the clock by hand from a kit or whatever. He didn't though so it makes one wonder what, exactly, he was wanting to proudly show to his teachers. He's playing this victim act as if people are shitting on his dreams when all he did was solder some wires when really he emptied an existing clock into a suspicious looking box. If he actually did make the clock then that would be a better reason for why it looks haphazard. At the time this happened, the actual amount of engineering involved was irrelevant because whether he took the case off a clock or soldered his own home-made clock didn't change the fact that it looked like it was intended to be misinterpreted as a bomb. The fact that he didn't actually make the clock, like I've said before, just makes one question what the actual point was for putting it in a different container and then just randomly bringing it into school.

I'm not trying to prove his intentions were bad. I'm just saying his story doesn't add up as more facts are rolling in and that I'm extremely skeptical of this innocent victimized Muslim hero the media is making this kid out to be. Also, word is that the parents won't sign a release for the school and police to go into any detail about their side of what happened. Why not?

[Silicone_Milk]

To clarify my wall of text:
Made the clock - believable that he just wanted to show his neat clock to his teachers.
Didn't make the clock - why even bring it in? Why not just bring the clock in it's original casing in and be like "its a clock."?

Let's say a kid brings in a piece of paper with a dick entering a vagina scrawled on it. A few well placed dots and maybe a line or two to make it seem like it's a guy with big lips and a funny nose.
Teachers: "This looks like a penis and vagina. Why are you bringing porn to school?"
Kid: "It doesn't look like porn to me."
Kid to media: "I don't understand. I want to be a famous artist one day and just love creating art. I wanted to show my latest drawing I was really proud of to my teachers."
Kid gave a copy or two away to friends while at school. Police are called in. Kid arrested for distributing porn to minors (charges later dropped). Kid berated by police after being handcuffed and dragged off to detention center.

It later turns out the kid didn't even draw the questionable looking drawing and had photo-copied it from a book filled with drawings of different faces constructed out of genitals.

Rabble-rouser trying to see what he could get away with and piss off some teachers or just a misunderstood artist who will be the Michelangelo of our time?

[Eraser]

it looked like it was intended to be misinterpreted as a bomb.

That's your (and some other people's) interpretation, and exactly the jumping to conclusions that I find so typical of (American) society.
Instead of just asking him what it is and showing interest in it, they decided to call the cops. I italicize "showing interest" there, because I strongly believe that if you show genuine interest in his creation, not out of suspicion, but to truly listen to what he has to say about it, then they may have just as well found a really enthusiastic kid that genuinely believed he had achieved something cool and everyone could go on their merry ways.
Whether his creation is impressive or not in your eyes or the eyes of experienced adult electo-engineers is completely irrelevant.

[Eraser]

It later turns out the kid didn't even draw the questionable looking drawing and had photo-copied it from a book filled with drawings of different faces constructed out of genitals.

Just like Ahmed downloaded a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook and used that as inspiration to create his clock, eh?

[Silicone_Milk]

It later turns out the kid didn't even draw the questionable looking drawing and had photo-copied it from a book filled with drawings of different faces constructed out of genitals.

Just like Ahmed downloaded a copy of the Anarchist Cookbook and used that as inspiration to create his clock, eh?

Just like how he grabbed a clock off a shelf and simply removed it's case. What part of that aren't you understanding? This isn't a case of being a curious tinkerer. He didn't do anything except take somebody else's work and call it his own when all he did was remove the screws.

[Silicone_Milk]

it looked like it was intended to be misinterpreted as a bomb.

That's your (and some other people's) interpretation, and exactly the jumping to conclusions that I find so typical of (American) society.
Instead of just asking him what it is and showing interest in it, they decided to call the cops. I italicize "showing interest" there, because I strongly believe that if you show genuine interest in his creation, not out of suspicion, but to truly listen to what he has to say about it, then they may have just as well found a really enthusiastic kid that genuinely believed he had achieved something cool and everyone could go on their merry ways.
Whether his creation is impressive or not in your eyes or the eyes of experienced adult electo-engineers is completely irrelevant.

They did ask him and reports are that he was being super uncooperative and wouldn't elaborate past simply saying "its a clock.". People are defending this by saying that maybe he felt it's ridiculous that was being questioned about it. It doesn't sound like somebody who's passionate about what they do would have done though; they'd be talking the person's ear off about every aspect of what went into the project.

It's not about whether the creation is impressive or not. It's about the fact that he DIDNT CREATE THE CLOCK. He was going around claiming he made a clock he bought. It's not that nobody is impressed by this and so his treatment was justified; there's nothing to be impressed about in the first place. That isn't to say his treatment was still justified but I think the teachers saw through his bullshit and did the right thing.

I'm unsure why you're trying to portray him as a misunderstood electrical engineer enthusiast when he's simply stealing people's inventions and saying they're his own.

What are your thoughts for the rationale behind taking the case off a clock, transferring the parts to a new shady looking case and then bringing it to school with wires sticking out to show your teachers your "invention" keeping in mind Ahmed already mentioned that he thought it would look suspicious before he even brought it to school (and so was taking steps to make it look not suspicious)?

The whole story stinks.

[shaft]

Eraser is our resident expert on typical (American) society.

[Tsakali]

I'm with silicunt and twaft on this one. Maybe if the prick had put some actual effort on the electronics, it would give him more credibility

[syp0s]

Think Eraser has ever said "Oh OK, I take your point"?

[xer0s]

lol, not a fucking chance...

[seremtan]

That's your (and some other people's) interpretation, and exactly the jumping to conclusions that I find so typical of (American) society.

seriously, right now you sound like someone trying to win a fight by punching himself in the face

[syp0s]

I'm surprised by Eraser here. It's fair enough to take his stance, but the fact that he can't even fathom how someone could interpret a circuit board and a clock as something suspicious is itself unfathomable.

Not least because in America, there's some lunatic kid every week blowing some shit up or shooting a bunch of people.

[Silicone_Milk]

Kid takes case off a clock. Gets invited to attend the Google Science Fair where other kids who actually make shit participate - Temperature-Independent, Portable, and Rapid Field Detection of Ebola Via a Silk-Derived Lateral-Flow System won first place and was made by a 16-year-old. No he obviously didn't participate but how silly for his mediocre shit to get him invited to attend.

[Tsakali]

never underestimate the power behind social media and the establishments' eagerness to appease the machine.

Was it all premeditated? probably not, but it makes for an interesting case study.

[seremtan]

Kid takes case off a clock. Gets invited to attend the Google Science Fair where other kids who actually make shit participate - Temperature-Independent, Portable, and Rapid Field Detection of Ebola Via a Silk-Derived Lateral-Flow System won first place and was made by a 16-year-old. No he obviously didn't participate but how silly for his mediocre shit to get him invited to attend.

holy shit that's fucking amazing work for a 16 year old

but if only he'd wrapped some wires and a circuit board around his ebola-detector; he could have been kicking back with Obama, OJ and pretzels at the White House right now, getting the recognition he deserves

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Yeah this was all an elaborate ploy. Holy fuck some of you people are idiots.

[losCHUNK]

So now circuit board + display now = bomb ?

Srsly ?, and not only that, the schools 1st reaction wasn't to evacuate the school, the police didn't call the bomb squad - they both knew it wasn't a bomb. He told his engineering teacher and he understood that it was a clock. Ahmed was arrested for a hoax bomb, despite telling his teachers that it was a clock, despite his engineering teacher determining it to be a clock, despite the police confirming it was a clock and at no point was it hinted at by Ahmed that it was a bomb but instead making repeated attempts to explain that it was a clock.

Trying to defend the actions of the school or police is fucking retarded, this shouldn't have gotten past the head teacher / principle let alone lead to his arrest.

This is without taking into account for thinking a bomb actually looks like a bomb from Die Hard if anyone actually thought it was a bomb