Q3ct4

[cityy]

Some Screenshots:

[lvlshot]http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9507/shot0000h.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/8154/shot0001w.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/3585/shot0004jw.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/4075/shot0005w.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/2323/shot0007v.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/5171/shot0009if.jpg[/lvlshot]

To Do:

- Rework the PG-area
- Rework Jump pads
- some changes in ammo placement

[AEon]

• Image 4: That arced path looks interesting... reminiscent of q3dm6's path to the RG.
• Also noting some height variations... keep that up

[cityy]

The map feels much better since I added the height variations, IMO.

Thanks for your feedback (:

[cityy]

***UPDATE***

Link: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct4_a09.zip

Changelog:

- added more height levels
- changed JP texture
---- I'm having an issue here - seems like the JPs aren't sending out light. Only for me?
- reworked several paths (e.g. PG path)

Other stuff:

- started thinking about general lighting
- FPS drops in some areas - seems my favourite part of building a map has to start soon -- hinting :S
- Is it possible to edit IDs water shader, so that the water does send out light just like e.g. lava does?
- I'm thinking over switching the YA with the RL (in the YA-room :b ) Any thoughts about this?

@ Pat:
Do you use any references to build PHDM_C? I'm finding myself in the position not having much ideas to continue this italian sheme..
I looked up sock's materials page (http://www.simonoc.com/pages/materials.htm) but I'm currently looking for another way to get ideas.

Screenshot:


[lvlshot]http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/5429/shot0002.jpg[/lvlshot]

[AEon]

I like the changes to the map... the nifty details and the PG roof you took out.

• I don't understand why the JPs do not emit light, they should. Compared your shader with my original, and it should emit light... strange.
• Not sure you did, but presently all the action is happening in the outer arenas, you might want to add more player respawn points to the main arena to fix this.
• Your planks are floating at the upper end. To make the planks better fit onto geometry, you might like to do what I did in AEdm7, in RL2 arena, the rusted plank leading onto the square tubes (with the shards on them)... I added a sort of metal support on which the planks can rest. This way you can avoid the planks resting directly on geometry edges, plus the upper and lower end of the planks are flush with the lower and upper end of the path. In the RL1 arena I also did this.
• Height variation definitely helps the map.
• In the southern corridors (on the LG side), your walls are *very* high. Try to create some height variation with the top of the buildings, and maybe lower some parts of the walls there, i.e. those looking outside of the map. To make those corridors more open and less claustrophobic due to wall height.
• You used to have arcs above the MH... I really liked those. You could put a "mini-roof" on them. This would add a path to jump onto from the RG ammo window area.

[Pat Howard]

Well, I'm running out of things to suggest, which means it's probably time to hunker down and do some serious brushwork! For inspiration, I suggest you continue to browse Sock's website and pay close attention to the little details. Also, pick a couple real world locations in Italy that you like and Google that shit . I spent hours on end looking at photographs before I even started my alpha. Whenever I found something of possible use, I saved it and put it in a folder on my desktop, so now I have hundreds of images to use as concept art. I'd send you these images, but I think the process of finding a picture and deciding "I can use this!" is too important to skip.

You used to have arcs above the MH... I really liked those. You could put a "mini-roof" on them. This would add a path to jump onto from the RG ammo window area.

- Second that. Exactly what I was gonna say. It also adds more cover disabling the RG camper from some areas and making him more vulnerable to a sneak attack. It also adds a legitimate third height level. I'd either do this or make the RG window even smaller, making it easier to spam at a camper.

- Also in that area, the MH and the 50 right above each other is too much. You could take the 50 out entirely.

- I'd take the 5 shards from the YA room and put them in the center. A line of armor shards helps better establish a control point. People take time waiting for them and scooping them up. I also don't really like the awkward jump to the shards in their current location anyway.

- Did you lower the platform that the YA currently sits on? I don't like it because it's too easy to see from the path below. A player can now guard the MH and that key armor spot at the same time. I would raise it again and add some jump-able crates up to it.

- I think you should switch the YA/RA. The idea behind the TPs was that the YA base would have better attack options via his TP than the RA, which creates an interesting balance.

- Speaking of TPs, you need to make them more obvious for us!!! It must've taken me 15 minutes to realize they were there.

- You've got a lot of water pools on your floors. Sound cues are good but using so many kind of defeats the purpose for me. Right now when I hear a water splash I know my opponent is in one of like 8 places.

Overall I had lots of fun. You have the makings of a really solid tourney release here. Get to work!
-pat

P.S. You can't actually edit the id Software shaders because they are write protected, but you can paste one into your own shader file and add the "surfacelight x" line, where x is the amount of light you want to emit. Might be interesting to try a subtle light blue color if it's going to be night time or something.

[cityy]

Get to work!

YES SIR!

***UPDATE***

Link: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct4_a10.zip

Changelog:

- switched YA and RL (in the YA-room :b)
- readded arches to the platform over the MH
----- caused some changes at the RG area
- removed shards from the southern hallway
- switched GL and LG
- worked on the skybox again - compile time was shorter this time!

Screenshots:

[lvlshot]http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/9634/q3ct41.jpg[/lvlshot]
The new RG area

[lvlshot]http://img686.imageshack.us/img686/2196/q3ct42.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8132/shot0003f.jpg[/lvlshot]

Feedback:

- How do you like the changes in the item layout (especially LG/GL swap)
- Comments about the new RG area
- how to make the teleporters visible (I liked AEon's idea with the water - any other ideas tho?)


Other stuff:

- damn I forgott to look at the spawn points
- the light issue with the JP isn't really important - I'm not sure if I will continue using the AEcell textures when the map goes beta since I need to learn to create my own.
- school sucks, I have less time than I actually would like to have :/

[AEon]

Just had my best bot game in a long time... I actually played tactically because just running around had me beat by the bots (on Hardcore)... picking up the RA and the MH, plus going for the RG and health all over the place.

• I'd make the ledge for the RG less wide so that someone up there cannot hide, and you have a chance to either rail him yourself or splash damage him with a RL.
• Your JPs all have a severe case of over-bounce, I'd suggest you lower the JP destination entity by at least 32u.
• Add a few 5H on your stairs (middle arena, SG up to the RG) to give the player some intensive to take those stairs.
• IMO, you could place the LG right in the middle of the central arena, not on the side.
• The rounded off corner (arena1, to the JP) with the 2x25H is great... the health there is *really* helpful... I always JP backwards into the ledge, and then into the health. Plus you can RL the bots coming up the stairs below. Neat! But please cut off the wall brush at the start of that rounded off path, the corner gets in the way.
• Hope you'll find something to make the TPs unique, for better recognition.
• On the upper level of the central arena you have placed 3x5H near the wall (on the GL side)... it would be nifty to put them on the planks... again as a path motivator.
• I wanted to suggest a different placement for the weapons, but I have thought the better of it... well maybe swap the LG with the PG, and the PG right in the center of the central arena.
• There are still several corners where I tend to get snagged, some angled playerclip brushes could help here.
• I'd remove the pool for the GL... it's hard enough to properly get up that JP, the water slowdown makes it even worse, IMO.

[dONKEY]

A few quick observations:


The above image shows one of a couple of areas where you can still 'escape' outside the map.


This is something you have probably got in mind anyway, but high flat walls like this could be problematic when you come to texture properly. It looks ok with the temporary textures, but brick/stone/wood will show repartitions. Think about how to break up the surface.


Another small detail issue, apart from the cylinders looking a bit thick, might be best to do details like this with 2D images and a shader, vary the amount of sag as well.


Have you thought about what you are going to replace the chocolate brown upright roof trim with? The sloping roof sections look real enough, I just started wondering about Venetian roof tops. I think mostly the roof should be pitched gently, rather than upright and flat somewhat like a castle battlement.


Similar thoughts to above in terms of map realism. The detail there seems a bit chunky. As you texture and detail out the map, I think I would try to make the small details like that finer and less blocky.

Overall, looks like it's gonna be a really nice level

[cityy]

I am glad you enjoy the map AEon =)
I like your idea about the weapon placement.

@ dONKEY:

I Just started using other textures and discorvered thes problems myself. :/
I also noticed that I suck at texturing and adding details... Are there any general things a map should have detail wise?

[dONKEY]

I think decals can work wonders for creating the illusion that texture repartition isn't happening. Decal rust, decal splats, decal dirt, decal climbing plants...any thing that can cover up areas. Small details like the wooden beams sticking out the wall can be made into ase models or static brushes and rotated, scaled; anything to give the illusion that the map isn't purely axial (following the square grid).

[AEon]

Seems like Tabun's decals (using those in AEdm7 a lot) will be showing in many maps now, alas because there are not many "readily available" decals out there. Again, we could rip them out of all the maps, and collect them, but that may not be "allowed" or "appreciated" by the original mappers.

[cityy]

Where do I find Tabun's decals or at least the shader he is using? :O

[AEon]

The direct link to Tabun's decals is this:

• tab_decals_a.zip @ tabun.nl

(shaders included).

Originated in the thread:

• Decals for Q3A - Rust, ... ?

[cityy]

Thank you =)

I'm gonna mess arround with it!

[AEon]

Sly self-ad: I used the decals all over the place in AEdm7, so if you look out for them, you'll be able to see what could work for you.

Decal location tip: Near all the floor plants, the APs, the planks, the square tubes connection to walls, the "ceiling windows" (though here you might need to use noclip to get a better look at them), all the walls that have "black" ledges above them, etc. Some of the decals are from AEcell (pads, cog, Strog logo).

[cityy]

I was looking into AEdm7 today - wow you use loads of details :O

I am currently playing arround with the shader for the water texture.
I took a look into id's liquids.shader and copied all the nessecary things to q3ct4.shader.
Here is a part the code:

Code: Select all

// q3ct4.shader

textures/liquids/clear_ripple1_q3dm1
	{
		qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3.tga
		qer_trans .5
		q3map_globaltexture
		surfaceparm trans
		surfaceparm nonsolid
		surfaceparm water
		q3map_surfacelight 600

		cull disable
		deformVertexes wave 64 sin .5 .5 0 .5
[...]
}

Still the water isn't sending out light. Is it not possible to "overwrite" ID's shader with your own or why doesnt it work?

[AEon]

"Shadowing" id shaders - what you are *not* doing BTW, since you created a newly named custom shader (you are just re-using id shader code) - is not the problem.

You seem to be missing:

• q3map_lightimage textures/[mapname]/color.tga

The light color is derived from the qer_editorimage, those with transparency or black edges will not emit light. IIRC, the top left pixel is sampled to determine the color of the light, so if it is transparent or black your shader will not emit light. Using the above command you can explicitly define the color, just create a 8x8 pixel 24bit TGA image that has only one color, the color you want.

[cityy]

I did what you said but nothing changed.

Here the whole code:

Code: Select all

textures/liquids/clear_ripple1_q3dm1
	{
		qer_editorimage textures/liquids/pool3d_3.tga
		qer_trans .5
		q3map_globaltexture
		surfaceparm trans
		surfaceparm nonsolid
		surfaceparm water
		q3map_surfacelight 600
		q3map_lightimage textures/q3ct4/watercolor.tga

		cull disable
		deformVertexes wave 64 sin .5 .5 0 .5	
	
		
		{ 
			map textures/liquids/pool3d_5.tga
			blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
			rgbgen identity
			tcmod scale .5 .5
			tcmod transform 1.5 0 1.5 1 1 2
			tcmod scroll -.05 .001
		}
	
		{ 
			map textures/liquids/pool3d_6.tga
			blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
			rgbgen identity
			tcmod scale .5 .5
			tcmod transform 0 1.5 1 1.5 2 1
			tcmod scroll .025 -.001
		}

		{ 
			map textures/liquids/pool3d_3.tga
			blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_one
			rgbgen identity
			tcmod scale .25 .5
			tcmod scroll .001 .025
		}	

		{
			map $lightmap
			blendFunc GL_dst_color GL_zero
			rgbgen identity		
		}

What exactly do you mean with "shadowing"?

[AEon]

As I understand "shadowing" means to create another version e.g. of a shader, keeping the exact same name of the original. Thus you are "replacing" the original. This is what id is doing in all the pak?.pk3, the higher numbered files are "shadowing" the older versions, the game only uses the last version ignoring the older versions.

Strange that the shader light does not work, but we already had that issue with the AEcell JPs - not working for you - that *should* and *do* create a light source in the map. Maybe you could post the -light q3map2 compile options, possibly you are doing something differently here.

If all fails, you could zip up everything in a pk3... including the .map, and I could run a test compile on my system... just to be sure the issue can be reproduced. Be sure to include the textures/q3ct4/watercolor.tga texture.

[cityy]

Here is the log file:

http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/lightlog.log


Edit:

Seems like uploading broke the text-layout abit..

Code: Select all

--- Light ---
Fast mode enabled
Lightmap filtering enabled
Ordered-grid supersampling enabled with 4 sample(s) per lightmap texel
Map has shader script C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/../scripts/q3map2_q3ct4.shader
entering scripts/shaderlist.txt
entering scripts/base_button.shader
entering scripts/base_door.shader
entering scripts/base_floor.shader
entering scripts/base_light.shader
entering scripts/base_object.shader
entering scripts/base_support.shader
entering scripts/base_trim.shader
entering scripts/base_wall.shader
entering scripts/common.shader
entering scripts/ctf.shader
entering scripts/eerie.shader
entering scripts/gfx.shader
entering scripts/hell.shader
entering scripts/gothic_block.shader
entering scripts/gothic_button.shader
entering scripts/gothic_door.shader
entering scripts/gothic_floor.shader
entering scripts/gothic_light.shader
entering scripts/gothic_trim.shader
entering scripts/gothic_wall.shader
entering scripts/liquids.shader
entering scripts/menu.shader
entering scripts/models.shader
entering scripts/organics.shader
entering scripts/sfx.shader
entering scripts/skin.shader
entering scripts/skies.shader
entering scripts/tech1soc.shader
entering scripts/dsi_textures.shader
Script file scripts/q3hh2.shader was not found
Script file scripts/q3hh4.shader was not found
Script file scripts/evil8.shader was not found
entering scripts/e7.shader
Script file scripts/ct.shader was not found
Script file scripts/ct2.shader was not found
Script file scripts/env.shader was not found
Script file scripts/ct3.shader was not found
Script file scripts/template.shader was not found
Script file scripts/solarae.shader was not found
entering scripts/andromeda.shader
Script file scripts/andromeda2.shader was not found
entering scripts/elbrus.shader
entering scripts/aecell_base.shader
entering scripts/aecell_floor.shader
entering scripts/aecell_sfx.shader
entering scripts/aecell_trim.shader
entering scripts/aecell_wall.shader
Script file scripts/tab_decal.shader was not found
     1563 shaderInfo
Loading C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/q3ct4.bsp
Loading C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/q3ct4.srf
--- LoadMapFile ---
Loading C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/q3ct4.map
entering C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/q3ct4.map
       44 light entities
--- SetupBrushes ---
     1892 opaque brushes
--- SetupDirt ---
       48 dirtmap vectors
--- SetupSurfaceLightmaps ---
     3178 surfaces
     2519 raw lightmaps
       57 surfaces vertex lit
     3121 surfaces lightmapped
     2994 planar surfaces lightmapped
        0 non-planar surfaces lightmapped
      127 patches lightmapped
       77 planar patches lightmapped
--- SetupTraceNodes ---
   106354 trace windings (26.78MB)
   197924 trace triangles (16.61MB)
    62380 trace nodes (3.81MB)
    31191 leaf nodes (1.90MB)
        3 average windings per leaf node
       32 max trace depth
--- SetupGrid ---
Grid size = { 64, 64, 128 }
    25641 grid points
--- CreateLights ---
WARNING: light at (632 136 268) has missing target
Sun: textures/skies/hellsky2
      223 point lights
        0 spotlights
      236 diffuse (area) lights
        1 sun/sky lights
--- SetupEnvelopes (fast) ---
      444 total lights
       16 culled lights
--- TraceGrid ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
63 x 37 x 11 = 25641 grid
   858404 grid points envelope culled
     6839 grid points bounds culled
--- MapRawLightmap ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (1)
  1029912 luxels
   594720 luxels mapped
    97125 luxels occluded
--- SetupEnvelopes (fast) ---
      444 total lights
        0 culled lights
--- IlluminateRawLightmap ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (6)
  1029912 luxels illuminated
--- IlluminateVertexes ---
0...1...2...3...4...5...6...7...8...9... (0)
    20228 vertexes illuminated
    20205 lights plane culled
   248121 lights envelope culled
        0 lights bounds culled
   850656 lights cluster culled
--- StoreSurfaceLightmaps ---
Subsampling...collapsing...sorting...allocating...storing...projecting...done.
   194763 luxels used
   196608 luxels stored (99.06 percent efficiency)
     1300 solid surface lightmaps
     1520 identical surface lightmaps, using 20569 luxels
        0 vertex forced surfaces
        0 vertex approximated surfaces
       12 BSP lightmaps
       12 total lightmaps
      104 unique lightmap/shader combinations
Writing C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/q3ct4.bsp
Wrote 2.5 MB (2641016 bytes)
       11 seconds elapsed
Disconnecting
Connection closed.

Sorry for spamming

[AEon]

You seem to have not added a line called "q3ct4" to your shaderlist.txt file, at least the compile does not seem to be loading a q3ct4.shader file, thus whatever you are editing in the shader is ignored by q3map2.

Just noted you do have this:

• Map has shader script C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/../scripts/q3map2_q3ct4.shader

... strange.

[cityy]

I cleaned up my shaderlist.txt.

New (proper)log:

http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/lightlog.txt

Edit:

C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/../scripts/q3map2_q3ct4.shader doesn't exist. :/

Gonna try to compile with radiant 1.4.

[AEon]

Well the q3ct4.shader is now getting loaded for your light compile, so things should be starting to work...

It seems that C:/Programme/QuakeIIIArena/baseq3/maps/../scripts/q3map2_q3ct4.shader, is the default shader q3map2 tries to load, i.e. q3map2_[mymap].shader... you can probably ignore this shader, since your real shader is getting loaded.

Not sure if this is related but you might want to check the coordinates in-editor:

• WARNING: light at (632 136 268) has missing target

and check what it up with that light, possibly delete it and recreate it.

[cityy]

Fixed the messed up light . Still doesn't work..