Quake3World

yea i'd agree with that

Iccy wrote:

I dont know, i feel my opinion was fairly well reasoned and left open minded enough for reasonable debate. I read it again and yup, still makes sense. I think you might wanna contemplate who you were really talking to in that reply.

Peace out brotha.

If you ignore the fact your opinion wasn't based on facts then yes, you could consider it well reasoned. You told someone to "skip Vista because in a few years the real next MS OS will be out". My point is that you should at least read up on the subject a little before posting advice like that. If you had read any of the Vista white papers which cover what has changed under the hood then you'd know this is definitely a worthwhile upgrade and is far more than just a UI overhaul.

Iccy wrote:

Tormentius wrote:

Iccy wrote:Simple. XP.


skip vista, in a few years the real next MS OS will be out, i think its 2 years. XP is perfect as it is and vista is still problematic with drivers and such not to mention its a considerably large resource hog. They both arent that bad though, so for whatever reason if your leaning to vista, i doubt you will have serious regrets, especially after the first service pack.

my 2 cents.

You don't really have a clue what you're talking about, do you? MS will put out a minor revision to Vista in 2 years as per the commitment Bill made last year to release minor versions every 2 years and major versions every 4 years so in order to entice corporations into signing up for Software Assurance. The "R2" version might add a few features but it will mostly be a security overhaul and patch rollup along the lines of XP SP2. It will be 4 years at least before we see another major version of Windows, so no, Vista isn't going anywhere.

Plained: If you're getting a new laptop then go with Vista.

Well that was a dickish response.


I dont know, i feel my opinion was fairly well reasoned and left open minded enough for reasonable debate. I read it again and yup, still makes sense. I think you might wanna contemplate who you were really talking to in that reply.

Peace out brotha.

What? His response makes perfect sense.

If you happen to be taking sides.

PROGRESS!

plained wrote:what benefits will i see whilst useing vista?

atm i'm falling towards xp

Bottom line is this plained. I work in the field with XP and vista and mac. What i have seen is this.

1. XP works. Anything you want is already optimized and if you know your way around PC's even just a tad, you can make it very secure and run very fast.

2. Vista currently has been received as the new windows millennium. Simple programs like norton anti virus, quicken and many other important programs including games simply do not run in vista. Its a temp situation ofcourse, but what worries me is that people have had quite some time to dev for vista and things still dont work right. Drivers for certain nvida cards arent expected for months yet. The reception of vista tot he PC community has me worried and doesnt make me wanna run out and get it.

3. Vista is a hog. This is a fact. On average i find vista pulls about 300+ more mb sitting still then a stock install of winxp. I have no doubt there is many tweaks to help this, but the fact reamins in its default state its a hog on a equal system running XP. The question i ask is, if your going to disable everything to make it run as good as XP, which includes the aero interface, why not just run XP.

4. The piss poor job that MS did with the development of this OS should in my opinion not be rewarded this cycle. For MS to learn that they cant just throw something together and toss it too us ala winME is going to require profits to reflect our feelings and im not alone since vista has seen some lack luster sales as well as over all excitement. Ofcourse there are people that will back up the newest OS from MS for fanboi reasons or reasons like they just like to be in the minority or perhaps they truly enjoy the things in vista. But in my opinion, as a technician that works on vista daily, i see nothing but winxp with a cute interface with things simply moved aorund and disguised with very little that is inovative or new. The fact that they just move everything around and just change how interfaces to them look and play it off likes its some wonderful new OS, speaks to me on the quality of the company.

5. Supporters of MS, people who blog, podcast and work in shops and business that i meet on a daily basis, that are microsoft certified like i myself am, simply arent impressed.




So to sum up and clarify.

winXP is the best OS out right now. While vista has some improvments that are worth noting and has potential to GROW into a solid little OS a true succesor of winXP, in its CURRENT state i would stay away from it and really in the next 2 years the only advantage to having vista is dx10. Thats up to you if thats important or not and if you ask me i think they will cave on that anyway.


Anyway, good luck plained, i hope my post was productive and helpful to you.

Peace.

Foo wrote:If you happen to be taking sides.

It makes sense regardless and has nothing to do with "sides". Iccy gave some advice that wasn't based on anything more than FUD he may have seen on a forum somewhere and I commented on it, nothing more and nothing less.

Tormentius wrote:

Iccy wrote:

I dont know, i feel my opinion was fairly well reasoned and left open minded enough for reasonable debate. I read it again and yup, still makes sense. I think you might wanna contemplate who you were really talking to in that reply.

Peace out brotha.

If you ignore the fact your opinion wasn't based on facts then yes, you could consider it well reasoned. You told someone to "skip Vista because in a few years the real next MS OS will be out". My point is that you should at least read up on the subject a little before posting advice like that. If you had read any of the Vista white papers which cover what has changed under the hood then you'd know this is definitely a worthwhile upgrade and is far more than just a UI overhaul.

Id have to disagree. I have read and listened too quite a lot about vista and i have seen nothing so far thats a significant reason to upgrade to it. I base my opinion on the facts i have been witness too.

If you have some facts then present them, instead of just telling me that i have no clue. I would welcome the chance to be enlightened rather then jabbed at for having a differing view. I know you have had this arguement with other people, i know how it goes int he tech world, but im not the last 15 people you told your story too, please remember that.

Fact is i believe in my stance, i have done enough research to satisfy myself that i am not just talking out my ass and i stand by my view. Like i said, if you care to enlighten me, im all ears, otherwise i fail to see a reason for furthur communication on this topic with you.

Foo wrote:PROGRESS!

let us know when you goto vista later this year rofl

Tormentius wrote:

Foo wrote:If you happen to be taking sides.

It makes sense regardless and has nothing to do with "sides". Iccy gave some advice that wasn't based on anything more than FUD he may have seen on a forum somewhere and I commented on it, nothing more and nothing less.

olo postabove.

Anyway, most of your opinions just seem to stem from the root OMG I LUV MICROSOFT, so I don't see how iccy sources can be any less credible than your anus ???

Doombrain wrote:

Foo wrote:PROGRESS!

let us know when you goto vista later this year rofl

Let me know when you have actual reasons to switch rather than just buzzwords.


PROGRESS!

just install the damn thing and behold the wow

Foo wrote:

Doombrain wrote:

Foo wrote:PROGRESS!

let us know when you goto vista later this year rofl

Let me know when you have actual reasons to switch rather than just buzzwords.


PROGRESS!

What are you talking about I already run vista and i can do EVERYTHING on vista i did on XP.

The question was (again) ‘if I buy a NEW computer should I go with the latest OS or stick with the last gen OS’. So, if I buy NEW, should I get it with a old OS or should I progress on to the next OS which everyone will be using in the next year thus saving me the need to update later on this year, advancing my knowledge of said OS, make myself future proof, start on a platform now rather than later or should I just buy a good spec PC and retard it with an OS that’s about to be made obsolete.

Why does this upset you so much? It makes sense to update the OS when it’s in rollout if you’re updating the hardware. Sorry mate.

Iccy wrote:1. XP works. Anything you want is already optimized and if you know your way around PC's even just a tad, you can make it very secure and run very fast.

Sure, now that's true. But where do you think developers are putting their efforts right now? XP?

Iccy wrote:2. Vista currently has been received as the new windows millennium. Simple programs like norton anti virus, quicken and many other important programs including games simply do not run in vista. Its a temp situation ofcourse, but what worries me is that people have had quite some time to dev for vista and things still dont work right. Drivers for certain nvida cards arent expected for months yet. The reception of vista tot he PC community has me worried and doesnt make me wanna run out and get it.

Norton works fine now AFAIK. Nvidia has a working Vista driver (no SLI support yet though).

Iccy wrote:3. Vista is a hog. This is a fact. On average i find vista pulls about 300+ more mb sitting still then a stock install of winxp. I have no doubt there is many tweaks to help this, but the fact reamins in its default state its a hog on a equal system running XP. The question i ask is, if your going to disable everything to make it run as good as XP, which includes the aero interface, why not just run XP.

That is because you don't know how Vistas memory manager works. It's not the same as XP, which tries to keep as much RAM free as possible all the time. Instead Vista uses the free and unused RAM for caching data for it's processes and services. Unused RAM isn't helping you do anything, Vista puts it to use instead which benefits the user

Iccy wrote:4. The piss poor job that MS did with the development of this OS should in my opinion not be rewarded this cycle. For MS to learn that they cant just throw something together and toss it too us ala winME is going to require profits to reflect our feelings and im not alone since vista has seen some lack luster sales as well as over all excitement. Ofcourse there are people that will back up the newest OS from MS for fanboi reasons or reasons like they just like to be in the minority or perhaps they truly enjoy the things in vista. But in my opinion, as a technician that works on vista daily, i see nothing but winxp with a cute interface with things simply moved aorund and disguised with very little that is inovative or new. The fact that they just move everything around and just change how interfaces to them look and play it off likes its some wonderful new OS, speaks to me on the quality of the company.

I'm not even going to comment on this retarded rant. Comparing it with winME is fucking stupid, and you know it. And just claiming that it's a new UI on top of old XP is pretty damn ignorant. If you're an technician who works on vista daily I really hope you aren't trusted with any real responsibilities, because it sounds like youre pretty damn incompetent.

Iccy wrote:5. Supporters of MS, people who blog, podcast and work in shops and business that i meet on a daily basis, that are microsoft certified like i myself am, simply arent impressed.

lol, what has this to do with anything? People will always whine and complain about new things. "Oh noes, this doesn't meet up with every single expectation I had, boo hoo." *cry*

Doombrain wrote:

Foo wrote:

Doombrain wrote: let us know when you goto vista later this year rofl

Let me know when you have actual reasons to switch rather than just buzzwords.


PROGRESS!

What are you talking about I already run vista and i can do EVERYTHING on vista i did on XP.

The question was (again) ‘if I buy a NEW computer should I go with the latest OS or stick with the last gen OS’. So, if I buy NEW, should I get it with a old OS or should I progress on to the next OS which everyone will be using in the next year thus saving me the need to update later on this year, advancing my knowledge of said OS, make myself future proof, start on a platform now rather than later or should I just buy a good spec PC and retard it with an OS that’s about to be made obsolete.

Why does this upset you so much? It makes sense to update the OS when it’s in rollout if you’re updating the hardware. Sorry mate.

I'll concede. But you're still a Big Fucking Fag (tm)

delete your posts

delete your..... face..

Yeah.

lord, when I ran xp for the first time, that broke a lot of programs and drivers down too

everybody was like: win2k is way better, more stable bla bla

who gives a shit. in less then a year, all the nei sayers will be running Vista

lets just sit it out then shall we?

Iccy wrote:
2. Vista currently has been received as the new windows millennium. Simple programs like norton anti virus, quicken and many other important programs including games simply do not run in vista. Its a temp situation ofcourse, but what worries me is that people have had quite some time to dev for vista and things still dont work right. Drivers for certain nvida cards arent expected for months yet. The reception of vista tot he PC community has me worried and doesnt make me wanna run out and get it.

If you're reading one of the many forums full of nerds who whine about every last software release from every last vendor on the planet then yes, you could probably find some of them comparing Vista to ME. That said, it doesn't make that information any more correct. If you Google hard enough you can find a group of nerds whining about pretty much anything. You state you're a technician though and should know how to spot BS information such as the quote you just made. If you know anything about the built-in compatibility mode at all then most of those problems can be solved with a few mouse clicks. Most major antivirus vendors have Vista compatible software out already but you're right, older versions aren't going to work. But then again, any technician worth his salt knows that AV products should stay updated and that older software versions are more prone to errors and incompatibility.

Iccy wrote:

3. Vista is a hog. This is a fact. On average i find vista pulls about 300+ more mb sitting still then a stock install of winxp. I have no doubt there is many tweaks to help this, but the fact reamins in its default state its a hog on a equal system running XP. The question i ask is, if your going to disable everything to make it run as good as XP, which includes the aero interface, why not just run XP.

Aero is an entirely new interface which renders everything in 3D. OF COURSE its going to take up more memory but if you have 1-2GB of RAM it shouldn't really matter. It has far better caching and memory management than XP does and makes better use of unused system memory. On decent hardware it will run just as quickly as XP will. I support Vista on a test bed and am currently running it at home and on my system at my main network and notice no difference in speed. Office 2007, on hte other hand, seems clunky still compared to 2003 but thats a different topic.

Iccy wrote:
4. The piss poor job that MS did with the development of this OS should in my opinion not be rewarded this cycle. For MS to learn that they cant just throw something together and toss it too us ala winME is going to require profits to reflect our feelings and im not alone since vista has seen some lack luster sales as well as over all excitement. Ofcourse there are people that will back up the newest OS from MS for fanboi reasons or reasons like they just like to be in the minority or perhaps they truly enjoy the things in vista. But in my opinion, as a technician that works on vista daily, i see nothing but winxp with a cute interface with things simply moved aorund and disguised with very little that is inovative or new. The fact that they just move everything around and just change how interfaces to them look and play it off likes its some wonderful new OS, speaks to me on the quality of the company.

5. Supporters of MS, people who blog, podcast and work in shops and business that i meet on a daily basis, that are microsoft certified like i myself am, simply arent impressed.

You're a PC repair tech, so you should know that there is a LOT more to the new OS than a "cute interface". In case you don't know then here's a ton of information to start with:

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVi ... x?mfr=true

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVi ... x?mfr=true

http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVi ... x?mfr=true

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/wind ... 05073.aspx

Those are all really basic examples of improvements but if you take the time to read the white papers on Vista you'll quickly realize that a lot more has gone into it than just interface changes (just like a lot more went into XP than interface changes from 2000 Pro). Nerds complained about XP being fluffy back then too and guess what OS most of them are happily using now?

In closing, please for the love of fuck don't throw the overplayed "I'm Microsoft certified" line around. Many people hold Microsoft certs (personally I have 15 or more kicking around plus some CompTIA ones). That said, I know some fine admins who hold no certs at all and many more certified admins that couldn't find their own asses with both hands and a map if you gave them all day. The rule of thumb is that certs are nice to have but they don't mean much on their own without the experience to back them.

nerds

I'm not buying Vista because I hear Google OS will be out soon with support for quantums.

Im not going to bother rebutting. Your not getting what im saying, tweaking and applying my view i guess to people you have talked too before and insinuating that im one of those " look look i have paper" guys. I got nothing to prove.

We are basicly on the same page cept i dont recommend vista at this time.

its just not worth the hassle of undoing all of the misunderstandings in this this thread. I waste good VG time.

Peace out guys.

Iccy wrote:Im not going to bother rebutting. Your not getting what im saying, tweaking and applying my view i guess to people you have talked too before and insinuating that im one of those " look look i have paper" guys. I got nothing to prove.

We are basicly on the same page cept i dont recommend vista at this time.

From what you've said so far we're not even in the same book. You've made some sweeping statements in this thread that show you have little to no understanding of the OS' advantages for home or corporate users beyond it's "cute interface" or any idea at all about what has changed under the hood.

From what you've posted you don't seem to be coming from an informed standpoint of knowing the ins and outs of the product and just not preferring it for a logical reason. People like Foo don't think its a good product yet for a variety of reasons such as it being a large expense for businesses, dealing with legacy hardware compatibility, etc and thats fine since at least they're aware of the underlying features and for their own reasons think its too early to upgrade (I'm paraphrasing from our earlier discussions here Foo so correct me if I'm wrong).

As for my insinuation about your certs, if you didn't want anyone to comment on them then you shouldn't have said something insinuating that being MS certified somehow makes the slightest difference in the weight of your opinion.

Iccy wrote:

Supporters of MS, people who blog, podcast and work in shops and business that i meet on a daily basis, that are microsoft certified like i myself am, simply arent impressed.

dude plained just install linux

bottom line there is no clear cut reason why you should jump on vista right now, I personally wouldn't bother.
If you are getting a new prebuild system that bundles the OS then it might just worth getting vista simply because you're getting the OS,
I'm sure you already have a copy of xp somewhere near