Quake3World

plained wrote:crazy scroll pad doen clicky click twice

you could've deleted the second one

Reading through this thread I gotta disagree with the majority on this one - Always overdress. And you're on a business trip for fucks sake. Suit and accessories, no question.

If you're going with your boss, you've got a safety net, AND a chance to impress him. This trip is a test, if it's your first. You can rise to the occasion and project yourself as an ambitious, professional person, or you can 'bare minimum' your way through and be mystified down the line when you don't get many more travel opportunities.

I'd say your baseline should be:
Dark Gray or Navy suit of some description
White or Blue shirt (you can fuck about with 'power' colours if you really know what you're doing but these are the totally safe picks)
A conservative, patterned tie
Black/Dark brown formal shoes.

On the accessories front you want a briefcase, pad and good pen, but you'll have to decide on rollover cuffs or cufflinks (tends to hang better on an older person) and french cuffs

Seriously, you cannot overdress for a formal meeting with clients, and because you're going with your boss you can confirm with him just before you go in. In the extremely unlikely eventuality that he thinks you're overdressed, or you've even upstaged him, then you'll be able to ditch the suit jacket or tie right there and then before going in.

Seriously though, approach this like you would a job interview. As it's your first trip your boss will pay good attention to how much thought you put into your presentation to clients.

If you want some decent links to more advice, hit me up. I've been reading up on business etiquette and professionalism issues for the past month solid, and most of what applies here in the UK applies in the US too. The UK follows the US lead on that at the moment, I think.

bitWISE wrote:

plained wrote:crazy scroll pad doen clicky click twice

you could've deleted the second one

yea ey

i hate seeing 22 year olds in suits like it means something.
meanwhile the pimplescars are still fresh in his neck

well ive seen some that plain and simple own it up

jelluz upset ?

jellus, upset, and i have questions...

hehe

questions i ask myself i got

Foo wrote:Reading through this thread I gotta disagree with the majority on this one - Always overdress. And you're on a business trip for fucks sake. Suit and accessories, no question.

yep, :icon14:

MKJ wrote:i hate seeing 22 year olds in suits like it means something.
meanwhile the pimplescars are still fresh in his neck

The problem isn't the age. The problem is that they're still too poor/dumb to wear fitting suits, so the all look like they're attending their own Bar-Mitzvah.

Foo wrote:Reading through this thread I gotta disagree with the majority on this one - Always overdress. And you're on a business trip for fucks sake. Suit and accessories, no question.

It depends. If you look like shit in your (cheapo) suit, don't wear it.

Last job interview I went to (at a bank), all the people in quality casual clothes (like me) got the job, while the fuckers in the cheapo suit-and-ties were told to fuck off.

If you don't feel comfortable in your suit or it looks like shit on you, don't wear it.

plained wrote:crazy scroll pad doen clicky click twice

fuck off did you spaz, you head butted the big old enter key twice. what happened, did you have a spak attack?

To all of you who said wear a suit no matter what:

Hey I got your email about massey...just wear whatever like you're coming into work. If you want to wear dockers and an oxford or polo or whatever.

Gotta love small businesses where VP is just a title.

It's not just small businesses.

A lot of people will also try to tell you that you'll never get hired if you don't shave your facial hair. The business world isn't the same place it was 10 years ago. Especially in IT it isn't.

R00k wrote:It's not just small businesses.

A lot of people will also try to tell you that you'll never get hired if you don't shave your facial hair. The business world isn't the same place it was 10 years ago. Especially in IT it isn't.

I shave before interviews (and I'll shave for this client) but I'm generally a lazy bastard when it comes to shaving. I'm always running late enough in the morning without adding another 10 minutes to shave.

bitWISE wrote:

R00k wrote:It's not just small businesses.

A lot of people will also try to tell you that you'll never get hired if you don't shave your facial hair. The business world isn't the same place it was 10 years ago. Especially in IT it isn't.

I shave before interviews (and I'll shave for this client) but I'm generally a lazy bastard when it comes to shaving. I'm always running late enough in the morning without adding another 10 minutes to shave.

he means an actual beard or goatee. not stubble. that shit should be shaved daily.

R00k wrote:It's not just small businesses.

A lot of people will also try to tell you that you'll never get hired if you don't shave your facial hair. The business world isn't the same place it was 10 years ago. Especially in IT it isn't.

IT is changing. The days of socially inept and pasty nerds dressed in stained metal tshirts and sandals are coming to an end pretty much anywhere except small dev or web design shops. IT is a part of the professional business world and is usually not its own entity anymore, just the same as any other corporate department. Granted, IT can get away with more casual clothes than the sales departments would but companies are beginning to realize that they can hire techs who can communicate, work with others, and have a sense of professionalism while still having good technical abilities.

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

bitWISE wrote:

R00k wrote:It's not just small businesses.

A lot of people will also try to tell you that you'll never get hired if you don't shave your facial hair. The business world isn't the same place it was 10 years ago. Especially in IT it isn't.

I shave before interviews (and I'll shave for this client) but I'm generally a lazy bastard when it comes to shaving. I'm always running late enough in the morning without adding another 10 minutes to shave.

he means an actual beard or goatee. not stubble. that shit should be shaved daily.

:icon14:

Tormentius wrote:

R00k wrote:It's not just small businesses.

A lot of people will also try to tell you that you'll never get hired if you don't shave your facial hair. The business world isn't the same place it was 10 years ago. Especially in IT it isn't.

IT is changing. The days of socially inept and pasty nerds dressed in stained metal tshirts and sandals are coming to an end pretty much anywhere except small dev or web design shops. IT is a part of the professional business world and is usually not its own entity anymore, just the same as any other corporate department. Granted, IT can get away with more casual clothes than the sales departments would but companies are beginning to realize that they can hire techs who can communicate, work with others, and have a sense of professionalism while still having good technical abilities.

So if I don't wear a suit, and I have a goatee, then I can't communicate or work with others, and don't have a sense of professionalism?

It sounds like part of this is your own biased view of people.

bitWISE wrote:To all of you who said wear a suit no matter what:

Hey I got your email about massey...just wear whatever like you're coming into work. If you want to wear dockers and an oxford or polo or whatever.

Gotta love small businesses where VP is just a title.

hhmm ye i think everyone here seems to think of dressing well as a sort of neccessity, im of the complete opposite opinion, i love wearing suits, so cool. i take advantage of every oppurtunity i can to wear one!

ps i dont believe in overdressing, its a made up concept to me

R00k wrote:

Tormentius wrote:

R00k wrote:It's not just small businesses.

A lot of people will also try to tell you that you'll never get hired if you don't shave your facial hair. The business world isn't the same place it was 10 years ago. Especially in IT it isn't.

IT is changing. The days of socially inept and pasty nerds dressed in stained metal tshirts and sandals are coming to an end pretty much anywhere except small dev or web design shops. IT is a part of the professional business world and is usually not its own entity anymore, just the same as any other corporate department. Granted, IT can get away with more casual clothes than the sales departments would but companies are beginning to realize that they can hire techs who can communicate, work with others, and have a sense of professionalism while still having good technical abilities.

So if I don't wear a suit, and I have a goatee, then I can't communicate or work with others, and don't have a sense of professionalism?

It sounds like part of this is your own biased view of people.

I don't think he's implying that IT is shifting towards suited techs (they're not). just the unshaven and unkept nerd-look.

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:
I don't think he's implying that IT is shifting towards suited techs (they're not). just the unshaven and unkept nerd-look.

Exactly. I wasn't having a dig at R00k either since I've never met him and have no idea what he dresses like or whether he has facial hair (which doesn't matter anyways).

I don't wear a suit in my day to day work since it would be overkill but for board meetings or anytime I'm representing my company when meeting with a client or vendor its worth it IMO.

Maybe, but if so he's reframing the discussion. We were talking about not wearing suits and not shaving beards - that's not the same thing as unkempt.

All I'm saying is that you can look very professional and demand respect without wearing a suit. And a lot of employers are realizing that, just as they're realizing the same thing about facial hair.

I have a close friend (old roommate) who travels around the country managing large installation projects in hospitals for one of the top companies in the world in that field. He never wears a suit jacket/blazer, and he doesn't need to. All they care about, is that their multimillion-dollar project goes smoothly and they meet their deadlines. He meets with executives regularly and has never had any issues. Once he develops a rapport with them, he often won't even wear a tie.

R00k wrote:Maybe, but if so he's reframing the discussion. We were talking about not wearing suits and not shaving beards - that's not the same thing as unkempt.

All I'm saying is that you can look very professional and demand respect without wearing a suit. And a lot of employers are realizing that, just as they're realizing the same thing about facial hair.

I have a close friend (old roommate) who travels around the country managing large installation projects in hospitals for one of the top companies in the world in that field. He never wears a suit jacket/blazer, and he doesn't need to. All they care about, is that their multimillion-dollar project goes smoothly and they meet their deadlines. He meets with executives regularly and has never had any issues. Once he develops a rapport with them, he often won't even wear a tie.

Yeah. Now that I think about it, most of the nerds (myself included) I worked with back when I was in the IT department for a giant corporate financial company were pretty rough looking but not homely or unprofessional.

R00k wrote:Maybe, but if so he's reframing the discussion. We were talking about not wearing suits and not shaving beards - that's not the same thing as unkempt.

All I'm saying is that you can look very professional and demand respect without wearing a suit. And a lot of employers are realizing that, just as they're realizing the same thing about facial hair.

I have a close friend (old roommate) who travels around the country managing large installation projects in hospitals for one of the top companies in the world in that field. He never wears a suit jacket/blazer, and he doesn't need to. All they care about, is that their multimillion-dollar project goes smoothly and they meet their deadlines. He meets with executives regularly and has never had any issues. Once he develops a rapport with them, he often won't even wear a tie.

So until he meets them he dresses in more formal business attire - thats pretty normal.
IT guys can be lucky with dress codes, but the 3 I work with all wear ties each day. Dunno why, theyre just in the office most times

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy looking like a champ. But like Splish mentioned I really haven't been making enough cash to have a large wardrobe of nice clothes. I'm working on it but I'm not there yet.