Quake3World

Nightshade wrote:Sure the world would be a better place without guns, but that's not going to happen for a LONG time, if at all.

That what this example with cold war was for. Disarming people in Texas would be really stupid idea, and giving all Canadians a guns would be even more stupid.
A common man is just much more dangerous if he got a pistol. Of course a psycho can kill me using a spoon, but the gun would make his "job" much easier.
Don't get me wrong, I'm against the action in SF. It's obvious that the place won't be safer because of the single law act. I like the idea of unarmed society. It just can't be done in a way they want to make it. The administration should start from reducing crime, then they could increase legal requirements needed for having a gun, and maybe someday a total prohibition would have sense.

Lukin wrote:... The administration should start from reducing crime, then they could increase legal requirements needed for having a gun, and maybe someday a total prohibition would have sense.

Violent crime of all sorts has been on a steady decline for the past 20 years in the US. The only places where violent crime has increased are the areas with bans on guns. I hate guns. I don't want anyone to have them, but it is pretty hard to argue with hard facts that an armed populace has a lower rate of violent crime.

Ryoki wrote:

Nightshade wrote:
Just because a drunk misuses a car and kills someone while driving doesn't mean you ban cars.

...

Also, the car analogy is flawed, since cars are meant as a transportation device rather than a killing apparatus. Even knives are a bad analogy, they can be used for cooking. Hey, i'm all for personal responsability, but people are fucking stupid and things should be done to protect them against themselves.

A fundamental error being made by peeps is that guns are only for killing people. Also, remember that some people use guns for hunting and even more condoned are the sports at the Olympic games. i.e. see

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/find_ ... 887219.stm

or

"The shooting events are divided into four different groups: shotgun, rifle, pistol and running-target events."

http://www.olympic.org/uk/sports/progra ... iscCode=SH

International society seems to condone these kinds of sports as a credible activity.

Furthermore, how do your arguments work with fencing? Should the world ban swords because the main goal of a sword/foil/epee is to inflict damage on human being?

What about boxing Should it be banned? At least boxing is honest in that everyone agrees that its violent.

Don't ban boxing, it's the gloves that are to blame. Sue the glove manufacturer and ban the gloves. That will stop fighting.

Fender wrote:

Lukin wrote:... The administration should start from reducing crime, then they could increase legal requirements needed for having a gun, and maybe someday a total prohibition would have sense.

Violent crime of all sorts has been on a steady decline for the past 20 years in the US. The only places where violent crime has increased are the areas with bans on guns. I hate guns. I don't want anyone to have them, but it is pretty hard to argue with hard facts that an armed populace has a lower rate of violent crime.

Where you saw areas with bans on guns in USA? New York? I thought is one of the most dangerless cities in the States...
Anyway, in other parts of Earth it doesn't look so simple. There are countries where owning a gun is banned and the number of violent crimes decreases and countries with similar law, but there the crime increases. Conclusion is simple - there is no connection between those two things. Decreasing crime is needed only to make people feel more safety (then you can try to ban guns).
Another reference to the Cold War example: destroying nuclear arsenals won't bring peace on Earth, but at least we could be sure that our cities won't disappear in one second.
It looks the same with guns. Guns don't make people more or less violent. They make them more dangerous. Potential nuclear attack would be far more devastating than a normal explosion and a criminal with a handgun is far more dangerous than a criminal with a knife.

/* Of course some may say that atom bombs keeps the world safety becuse no one is so dumb to blow up the planet. I could agree if North Korea and Iran did not have the nukes :P */

hax103 wrote:Furthermore, how do your arguments work with fencing? Should the world ban swords because the main goal of a sword/foil/epee is to inflict damage on human being?

Swords are used mainly as a decoration nowadays. As I written above - guns are much more dangerous and much more effective when it comes to killing people. Ultimately you can run away when someone attack you with a sword.

hax103 wrote:A fundamental error being made by peeps is that guns are only for killing people. Also, remember that some people use guns for hunting and even more condoned are the sports at the Olympic games. i.e. see

You made a fundamental error here: the are countries where having a gun is virtually barred, but peeps there can use guns for sport or even for a hunting. They just need a permission from the administration. Of course it's far more difficult to get such paper there than in the USA.

Nightshade wrote:Don't ban boxing, it's the gloves that are to blame. Sue the glove manufacturer and ban the gloves. That will stop fighting.

boxing gloves are designed to help protect the fighters from serious injury

now if the gloves were faulty and as a result caused the opponents death, then yer, they should be sued

guns are designed for killing, so having your non hunting average joe with a gun is just gunna use it for 'protection'...

at the very least i think you guys should make guns harder to get...

Nightshade wrote:

Lukin wrote:Let me use the cold war as an example - USA needed atom bombs, becuase Soviet Union had them and vice versa. It was justified, but the world without nuclear weapons would be much safer. Guns are like atom bombs. And just like you can't compare nuclear bomb with nuclear reactor you can't compare gun with a car or a knife.

You're REALLY reaching here. You cannot deny the fact that there are LOTS of vicious, violent criminals in the world that justify someone owning a gun for self-defense. Sure the world would be a better place without guns, but that's not going to happen for a LONG time, if at all.
And you most certainly can compare guns with other objects if you're looking at intent.

think what he was trying to get at is.... if police arent allowed to equip guns and people arent allowed to have guns then the criminals would see no reason to use a gun, that coupled with heavy media coverage for gun crimes and very heavy prison sentences for owning a gun

not being funny but it does work, thats the method the brits use but for you guys to incorporate it now would be difficult as you have had guns so freely available for a long time

im not trolling either d00d, i am just very anti-gun

The only way in which that scenario would work is if all the guns were removed, completely. That's not going to happen.

Let me ask you all this: Do you think that someone does NOT have the fundamental right to employ a weapon to protect their home and family?

non lethal weapon yea

like, not a gun

this means that my above post applies (we dont have guns so criminals dont need guns)

besides, whats wrong with a rottweiler and baseball bat ?

So if someone's breaking into your house in the middle of the night, you don't think you should be allowed to shoot them? To me, that's crazy. I have to assume that if someone's breaking in, then they have every intention of killing/raping/whatever. That warrants nothing more than a shotgun blast to the chest.
I don't think there's anything wrong with a Rottie and a bat, until the burglar has a gun.

which is why guns r bad mmkay

someone breaks into a house you jump to an instant conclusion and kill him...

robbing someones house (besides my own :P) isnt reason enough to kill someone, just -2 knee caps..... and this is why gun crime is fucked up because the burgy knows if he gets caught theres gunna be no if's, ands or buts so hes gunna have a gun n all

There is absolutely no way to get rid of guns, ever. Why wouldnt criminals need guns since nobody else has them? It just makes their jobs easier. OH SHIT A DOG, shoot him in the face. UH OH SOMEBODY WITH A BASEBALL BAT, shoot him in the face. If you're the only person with a gun, there is nothing to fear.

read up

losCHUNK wrote:

Nightshade wrote:

Lukin wrote:Let me use the cold war as an example - USA needed atom bombs, becuase Soviet Union had them and vice versa. It was justified, but the world without nuclear weapons would be much safer. Guns are like atom bombs. And just like you can't compare nuclear bomb with nuclear reactor you can't compare gun with a car or a knife.

You're REALLY reaching here. You cannot deny the fact that there are LOTS of vicious, violent criminals in the world that justify someone owning a gun for self-defense. Sure the world would be a better place without guns, but that's not going to happen for a LONG time, if at all.
And you most certainly can compare guns with other objects if you're looking at intent.

think what he was trying to get at is.... if police arent allowed to equip guns and people arent allowed to have guns then the criminals would see no reason to use a gun, that coupled with heavy media coverage for gun crimes and very heavy prison sentences for owning a gun

not being funny but it does work, thats the method the brits use but for you guys to incorporate it now would be difficult as you have had guns so freely available for a long time

im not trolling either d00d, i am just very anti-gun

think the penalty for being caught with a gun now is like 10 yrs? or 5?

so why would he risk being caught with a gun breaking into someones house when he dont particulary need a gun

its just gunna add 5-10 yrs on top of his 12 mnth sentence

what i hear happend here in canada is that they made like a super mandertory registartion for like old hunting .22's even and it was so strict and intencive that after its all said and done, the registrant is all ready to get handguns, so lots of peeps do.

i really dunno if its hearsay or what tho ive got no guns or nothin i have sharp teeth and chewy jaw for hunting

just read further back and noticed NS had a rottie, sweet mang how old was he/she and how come you never got round to getting another ?

ive had them from the day i was born and couldnt imagine being without 1... always a sad day to see them finally go though

losCHUNK wrote:which is why guns r bad mmkay

someone breaks into a house you jump to an instant conclusion and kill him...

robbing someones house (besides my own :P) isnt reason enough to kill someone, just -2 knee caps..... and this is why gun crime is fucked up because the burgy knows if he gets caught theres gunna be no if's, ands or buts so hes gunna have a gun n all

So you're willing to take the chance that the burglar wouldn't have a gun? Sorry, but if someone invades my home, they deserve to get shot. There is no way in hell I would give some scumbag the chance to injure or kill me or my family. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, they're breaking into my home. I have to assume that the burglar is willing to kill me and act accordingly.

About my Rottie, I miss him like hell. Had him for 11.5 years, he was a great dog. Rotts are the best dogs on the planet, imo. We haven't gotten another yet as my wife and I are both too damn busy right now. I want to get a pair of them, the wife wants a Great Dane.

[lvlshot]http://s93511301.onlinehome.us/Loki.JPG[/lvlshot]

RIP Loki

The only reason there AREN'T home robberies in some places in this country, is because robbers know the homeowner might have a bigger gun than he does, and might know how to use it.

That, IMO, is reason enough for people to be able to own guns. If citizen ownership was banned in my neighborhood, I would probably move to a different one, because it's just asking to be targeted by armed robbers.

I'm thinking about a rottie for my next dog. Every one I've ever known has just been a great, loyal dog. I don't think I'll be able to get a dog for a while, but that's one of the breeds I have in mind when I do.

Nightshade wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:which is why guns r bad mmkay

someone breaks into a house you jump to an instant conclusion and kill him...

robbing someones house (besides my own :P) isnt reason enough to kill someone, just -2 knee caps..... and this is why gun crime is fucked up because the burgy knows if he gets caught theres gunna be no if's, ands or buts so hes gunna have a gun n all

So you're willing to take the chance that the burglar wouldn't have a gun? Sorry, but if someone invades my home, they deserve to get shot. There is no way in hell I would give some scumbag the chance to injure or kill me or my family. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, they're breaking into my home. I have to assume that the burglar is willing to kill me and act accordingly.

dont get me wrong if someone breaks into my house ill be going at them gung ho with the kitchen sink if i have to, but atleast i know he aint gunna blow my brains out from across the room

you americans are to trigger happy, its like giving a baby a bottle of bleech

i explained how it was in the UK and wasnt saying that america needs to do this now, but i do believe that america should be slowly tightening up restrictions on guns resulting in an all out eventual ban

About my Rottie, I miss him like hell. Had him for 11.5 years, he was a great dog. Rotts are the best dogs on the planet, imo. We haven't gotten another yet as my wife and I are both too damn busy right now. I want to get a pair of them, the wife wants a Great Dane.

[lvlshot]pic[/lvlshot]

RIP Loki

sweet dog dude and yer, rots are def the best breed of dog around, know loads of people who say they hate dogs yet for some reason get on fine with mine (memph's 1 of them)

heres balou bear (jungle book)

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/losCHUNK/Sod_it.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/losCHUNK/S3500013.jpg[/lvlshot]

and heres my last doggy phoenix R.I.P .... she fell out a 2nd floor window, fell through a satalite dish and survived without so much as a scratch

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/losCHUNK/Picture_017.jpg[/lvlshot]

pisses me off when i take her for walks and people give me dirty looks and start asking stupid questions like "why isnt she muzzled"

fs, i nearly lost bear because she ripped a bloke apart in the street.....

police turn up and start saying they need the dog to be put down, so im telling them that the dog would not attack unless she had reason to... so they start saying that its a rottweiler (never of guessed, i thought it was a chimp), it was a big dog and its a danger (they were calling her "it")

thank fuck 1 of my nosey neighbours knocked the door because by all accounts some guy turned up in the street and tried getting a boy in his car, my dog seen, jumped through the door and ripped him a new 1

didnt even get an apology off the pigs

Well hes not a big dog but for a watchdog my Irish Terrier Seamus does a very good job. He's as courageous as any breed I know of. I had someone try to break into my house since I moved here. Seamus bolted to the window when he heard the noise, going nuts. All I found was the screen cut.

allroght waht the hell is this thread about already

losCHUNK wrote:

Nightshade wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:which is why guns r bad mmkay

someone breaks into a house you jump to an instant conclusion and kill him...

robbing someones house (besides my own :P) isnt reason enough to kill someone, just -2 knee caps..... and this is why gun crime is fucked up because the burgy knows if he gets caught theres gunna be no if's, ands or buts so hes gunna have a gun n all

So you're willing to take the chance that the burglar wouldn't have a gun? Sorry, but if someone invades my home, they deserve to get shot. There is no way in hell I would give some scumbag the chance to injure or kill me or my family. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt, they're breaking into my home. I have to assume that the burglar is willing to kill me and act accordingly.

dont get me wrong if someone breaks into my house ill be going at them gung ho with the kitchen sink if i have to, but atleast i know he aint gunna blow my brains out from across the room

you americans are to trigger happy, its like giving a baby a bottle of bleech

i explained how it was in the UK and wasnt saying that america needs to do this now, but i do believe that america should be slowly tightening up restrictions on guns resulting in an all out eventual ban

About my Rottie, I miss him like hell. Had him for 11.5 years, he was a great dog. Rotts are the best dogs on the planet, imo. We haven't gotten another yet as my wife and I are both too damn busy right now. I want to get a pair of them, the wife wants a Great Dane.

[lvlshot]pic[/lvlshot]

RIP Loki

sweet dog dude and yer, rots are def the best breed of dog around, know loads of people who say they hate dogs yet for some reason get on fine with mine (memph's 1 of them)

heres balou bear (jungle book)

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/losCHUNK/Sod_it.jpg[/lvlshot]

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/losCHUNK/S3500013.jpg[/lvlshot]

and heres my last doggy phoenix R.I.P .... she fell out a 2nd floor window, fell through a satalite dish and survived without so much as a scratch

[lvlshot]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v35/losCHUNK/Picture_017.jpg[/lvlshot]

pisses me off when i take her for walks and people give me dirty looks and start asking stupid questions like "why isnt she muzzled"

fs, i nearly lost bear because she ripped a bloke apart in the street.....

police turn up and start saying they need the dog to be put down, so im telling them that the dog would not attack unless she had reason to... so they start saying that its a rottweiler (never of guessed, i thought it was a chimp), it was a big dog and its a danger (they were calling her "it")

thank fuck 1 of my nosey neighbours knocked the door because by all accounts some guy turned up in the street and tried getting a boy in his car, my dog seen, jumped through the door and ripped him a new 1

didnt even get an apology off the pigs

Americans aren't trigger happy. We have a lot of violent criminals, and I feel it's my right to blast someone that's broken into my home. Now don't get me wrong, I wouldn't do it willingly, I'm not eager to kill anyone. I'd probably tell whoever it was to freeze, and hopefully they'd just bolt. But, if they so much as flinch aggressively, they're getting one through the ten-ring.
Let me give you an example. I used to live near a shit neighborhood in Daytona Beach, FL. We used to call it Compton, after the rathole in LA. Drugs, crime, police helos every night, the whole nine yards. I owned a Glock 9mm at this point, and I kept it loaded, next to my bed. (Obviously, I didn't have a kid at this point.) I heard a bunch of noise outside my bedroom window at about 2AM one Saturday night, and I thought someone was trying to break in. So, I grabbed my pistol, chambered a round, and waited. I kept hearing noises, but it didn't sound like someone was trying to get the window open. So, I tucked my gun in the waistband of my jeans and went outside to investigate. What I found when I peeked around the corner was my upstairs neighbor trying to find a way to climb up my A/C unit to his bedroom window, as his roommate had passed out drunk, locking him out. I approached him and told him how close he'd come to getting shot, and he nearly shit himself. I could have just opened fire, but, me being the responsible gun owner, took measures to ensure that I knew exactly what was going on, including potentially exposing myself to harm.
I think that you and I have glaring cultural differences. Gun crime is alien to you, it's a regular occurrence here.

Oh, and about owning a Rottie, I feel your pain. People were scared of Loki when he was only 6 months old. There are far too many dipshits in this country that have watched too much TV and think that all Rotties, Pitbulls, Dobermans, and German Shepherds are "vicious dogs". There are a lot of places where you can't own one without your insurance going through the goddamned roof.
The problem over here has been assfucks that get any of the aforementioned breeds as status symbols. I've seen dumbasses walking puppies around with HUGE chains as leashes because they wanted to look tough. There's also a lot of assholes that fight pitbulls in the US. I'd like to shoot every one of them.
My wife had a female Pit when she was a kid, she said she was the sweetest dog on the planet, until a stranger came into the yard. I think most idiots can't understand that dogs have protective instincts, and when they perceive a threat, they react accordingly.
Heh, Loki was awesome with other dogs. Shit, I saw a little yappy dog bite him right on the face one day, he just looked at him as if to say: "Are you fucking serious? You weigh like four pounds!"
Damn, I miss that dog.