Quake3World

So o'dium, are you still working on it???

Weeeeeeeeeee... Be back in a few mins guys.

Hope you had fun in the riots..

o'dium wrote:Weeeeeeeeeee... Be back in a few mins guys.

kiss
had fun?

MKJ wrote:

o'dium wrote:Weeeeeeeeeee... Be back in a few mins guys.

kiss
had fun?

Wasn't to bad, just cold and windy, and raining... Fuck knows why they decided to put a place like disney in paris, whats wrong with spain

Anyways, about the level. I'm re-brushing the level with caulk and also changing a few spots.

The biggest change is the pipes around the curves and what not with the wire fence. Those are going and are being replaced with something much more like the original. A few other spots will change too.

Sorry its taking so long.

Take your time It's nice that someone is taking his time to be true to the original and not doing a rush job.

Make sure you tweak the lights with a different level of detail so the map scales down well on weaker machines. That's really the best way to scale the damn thing yet raven barely uses it (because obviously, without brightskins things get a little unclear when you only have the fill light(s) on).

r_lightdetaillevel 1-9 is yay that way.

Grab a sample pack of the default maps with tweaks on this thread (aka FPS map pack final). There's a readme with it that gives an example of different light LOD ranges. o/

hemostick wrote:Make sure you tweak the lights with a different level of detail so the map scales down well on weaker machines. That's really the best way to scale the damn thing yet raven barely uses it (because obviously, without brightskins things get a little unclear when you only have the fill light(s) on).

r_lightdetaillevel 1-9 is yay that way.

Grab a sample pack of the default maps with tweaks on this thread (aka FPS map pack final). There's a readme with it that gives an example of different light LOD ranges. o/

I know how to do it its simple. Its also beta, and most of the map (all of it) has changed.

take your time, we'll wait. and in case you don't feel expert at something, don't forget to ask around for help. I'm sure it will be a good map in the end

This thread got big quickly so I may be responding to old stuff, but:

Some questions about how portals, caulk, lighting and such work together, these two threads have some info from me and Ford, who is still at Raven, which should be more or less on target (this is from a year ago when D3 came out):

http://www.map-center.com/modules.php?n ... pic&t=4810

http://www.map-center.com/modules.php?n ... pic&t=4505

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my most used binds for map performance:

bind "[" "toggle con_noPrint"
bind "]" "toggle com_showFPS"
bind "\" "toggle r_showprimitives"
bind "p" "toggle r_showlightcount"
bind "o" "toggle r_showoverdraw"
bind "i" "toggle r_showtris"
bind "u" "toggle r_showportals"
bind "y" "toggle r_usescissor"

shadows i just guestimate, as the tools for viewing shadow volumes don't seem to help me much.


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caulk and overdraw:

-cualking is not required at all, except behind patches or largish models to help performance.

-overdraw, in all its forms, is the huge performance killer in maps.

-even a simple wall has overdraw, as it uses multiple images for bump / diffuse / specular.

-lights cause overdraw on top of that - the more lights per surface, the more overdraw per surface.

-stencil shadows are objects - just like walls - and even though you don't see them, they still cause overdraw.

-any rooms more complex than a shoebox will cause still more overdraw.

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vis portals:

-vis portals are a bit like hint brushes, and also double as Q3 style area portals.

-geometry alone does not block vis - period.

-r_showportals 1 makes the outlines of portals visible in-game.

-vis is calculated in-game, and it is possible to use too many vis portals. understanding how they work helps in placing them decently, but ultimately D3/Q4 is just plain rough on todays computers so its a pain in the ass.

-a red portal means nothing beyond that portal is needed for the current frame. any geometry behind that portal does not even get sent to your vid card.

-a green portal means any geometry behind it is required to render your current frame. any geometry behind it, but in front of red portals further away, is sent to your vid card to be transformed into your particular perspective view.

-what actually gets rendered, pixel by pixel, is what you can see through green portals. everything off to the sides, top, and bottom of your green portals doesn't actually get rendered, the D3 engine takes advantage of your video card's "scissor" function to make this happen.

-this second function of vis portals (green ones), the scissor, is very, very useful for eliminating overdraw - but doesn't help a bit with triangle count. only geometry behind red portals reduces triangle count.

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I've noticed the "Q4Radiant won't save my fucking work" problem as well. I seemed to start having problems after setting up si_map and spawnserver to test things, but who knows whats going on.

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sorry for the crappy typing, its nearly 2 am here.

Well, thats mostly things i knew but it came in handy none the less, thanks for your time.

I think the most helpful thing i can have is a full vis of the map from somebody

I'm re-building the entire map anyways now to be much more cleaner. Its looking, and playing, a lot better now.

why are you having so much problems with VIS? Is it just the layout of Q3DM6 that is a bitch to VIS or does VIS work different in Quake 4?

r3t wrote:why are you having so much problems with VIS? Is it just the layout of Q3DM6 that is a bitch to VIS or does VIS work different in Quake 4?

The layout. I cant check the original either because i dont have it

ze problem is those arched doors for vis .. i got rid of those bottom side parts of doorways and managed 13 portals but i'm still drawing way too much of the world because of dm6 layout.

your map untouched except got rid of 90% lights=60fps

Arched doorways aren't a problem for vis portals, just extend the portal

Arched doors shouldn't be a large problem in and of themselves. Just extend the portal brushes to the brushes beneath the curves.

The layout is quite open though, I'd imagine you would have to rely more on open portals combatting overdraw than on getting rid of triangles altogether - at least from many viewpoints.

Putting two portals at each arched opening, one at each end would probably help if you have not done so already.

2 brushes not making a good seal at arches .. legs of arch.

back in a week have fun odium with that map.

let the portal brush overlap the legs, and extend to the max width of the opening - the portal will still work just fine.

Fucking textures...

I've done the tech trim (that flashes blue) and it all looks fine for me, even got the shader effect fine as well. I just cant match it up on each brush, it doesn't seem to want to do it right based on where it is... FFS...

I don't think I ever used that texture in Q3, but if I recall correctly the blue beam would wrap around continuously if you used it all on one simple patch mesh, like:

5 x 3 for an L

7 x 3 for a U

more x 3 for more complex wraps etc

then just caulk behind the patch

Thought about that while eating me' tea.

i should get into mapping again

lol, this new tech trim looks a LOT more better than the old pipes, plus its less tris which means faster frame rate, and its more like the old style too.

Add that to the lack of lights now (all those little lights just use flares, no actual point light is used) and its very fast, without vis.

[lvlshot]http://xs53.xs.to/pics/05441/dm6bug.jpg[/lvlshot]

oh god that looks like shit

Zimbo wrote: oh god that looks like shit

Tell me your kidding and that you have read the thread...