Another trainin thread

[+JuggerNaut+]

lol look at all the fatties!!

[[xeno]Julios]

hypocaloric diets are great for getting rid of pounds in a short term, but i couldn't see being on a hypocaloric diet for the rest of my days.

hypocaloric is simply less than maintenance.

It's a thermodynamic issue - if you eat less than is required for maintenance, you will lose fat. The idea is that once you've lost enough fat, you stop going hypocaloric and you maintain. I think maintenance calories changes depending on your weight.

This isn't to say that the quality of the foods you eat/lifestyle do not have an effect on your body.

[[xeno]Julios]

also important to understand that maintenance calories depends on amount of calories you burn.

So you can just up your caloric expenses without reducing caloric intake, and you will have gone into hypocaloric mode.

[Don Carlos]

lol look at all the fatties!!

I would hardly say i was fat, just have gained a bit of a pokey out
stomach where as it was flat as fuck before...

[plained]

well looks as tho you had some good advice to get you your new pokey :lol:

[Don Carlos]

yup

Great advice, TNF knows his shit see

[plained]

i like that sig man heh

[Don Carlos]

Sorry im late,my walk has gotten rather more silly lately so it took me rather a long time to get here...

[[xeno]Julios]

donny - seriously - go the HIIT route. It's great at reducing fat and preserving muscle, compared to cardio.

[mik0rs]

I should have tried that when I stopped getting results with an hour's worth of cardio 3 times a week when I was trying to cut. I got to about 28lb (I was pretty ripped) and then it slowed down a hell of a lot.

Have you used HIIT after originally starting on standard heartrate-based cardio or have you always used it? Just curious if you've got a personal basis for comparison.

[[xeno]Julios]

Have you used HIIT after originally starting on standard heartrate-based cardio or have you always used it? Just curious if you've got a personal basis for comparison.

No - never really done serious cutting. Most of my enthusiasm for HIIT comes out of the reputation it has among the fitness community, as well as reading some impressive research (see my original post in this thread where i link the study)

I did experience benefits from an informal HIIT "routine" by cycling to work. There are a few hills i have to climb to get up north so it was somewhat akin to doing bursts of high intensity activity. Got in great shape cardio wise, and shed fat.

[mik0rs]

Fair enough, I'll take a look at the link tomorrow I think , I'm feeling lazy right now. I'll probably stick at the way I used before but I'll certainly look at it for plateau busting if I can't cut any more with the normal method. I'll probably have plenty to cut in a few months after the bulk I'm just starting, coupled with a few months of relative inactivity before this.

[tnf]

IMHO - HIIT, taken exactly as it is written, is not the only way to go.

I've tried high intensity routines (like those touted by Mike Mentzer back in the day - and then modified for use by Dorian Yates..) and I've tried more traditional training methods, and I've found that HIIT did not give me the best results of the bunch. I could see it as a part of a comprehensive year long training strategy, perhaps during a mass building phase, but overall I'd avoid using it as my only means of training. That's just based on experience, observation, and some talks with bodybuilders and one of the top powerlifters of all time (and the world's best squatter). So you could call it anecdotal evidence.

[mik0rs]

I'll find out what my cousin is doing for cardio at the mo, he's a competitive bodybuilder so it'd be interesting to know. The fucker's huge.

[[xeno]Julios]

IMHO - HIIT, taken exactly as it is written, is not the only way to go.

I've tried high intensity routines (like those touted by Mike Mentzer back in the day - and then modified for use by Dorian Yates..) and I've tried more traditional training methods, and I've found that HIIT did not give me the best results of the bunch. I could see it as a part of a comprehensive year long training strategy, perhaps during a mass building phase, but overall I'd avoid using it as my only means of training. That's just based on experience, observation, and some talks with bodybuilders and one of the top powerlifters of all time (and the world's best squatter). So you could call it anecdotal evidence.

don't confuse HIT with HIIT

HIT = high intensity training for muscle building

HIIT = high intensity interval training for fat loss.

The latter does not involve weight lifting.

High Intensity Interval Training


Good intro:


http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp


Here is a study on the issue:


http://etd-submit.etsu.edu/etd/theses/a ... ng0417.pdf


combine that with a good sleep schedule, healthy diet that's not too high in calories, and an overall active lifestyle.

[tnf]

don't confuse HIT with HIIT

HIT = high intensity training for muscle building

HIIT = high intensity interval training for fat loss.

The latter does not involve weight lifting.

High Intensity Interval Training


Good intro:


http://www.musclemedia.com/training/hiit.asp


Here is a study on the issue:


http://etd-submit.etsu.edu/etd/theses/a ... ng0417.pdf


combine that with a good sleep schedule, healthy diet that's not too high in calories, and an overall active lifestyle.

Ahh...I misread...yea, interval training is great for leaning out.

[Guest]

So tnf, if I go on a low carb high protein diet, then I gotta stop taking carbs after the workout... will it be that bad? Honestly, after 2 months I haven't noticed much difference between only taking protein and taking protein+carbs after a workout, other than I gained weight... I also ate more carbs either way though.

[tnf]

I don't think you need to stop taking in carbs right after your workout. That's probably one of the few times it is still fine. There's a window of opportunity, if I remember correctly, after your workout, to take in the carbs...most will go to replenishing liver glycogen stores and whatnot as opposed to stored as fat.

So I would not abandon the post-workout carb drink.

But I haven't looked at the research lately...

[mik0rs]

Ahh...I misread...yea, interval training is great for leaning out.

What's your take on it compared to the traditional method? Better? Just different?

[Zyte]

Nice links Julios. i recognize myself in that guy: "Somehow, the idea of sitting on a bike and going nowhere is a little weird to me."

Although im far from fat, and in pretty good condition, im gonna give this a try, since my sixpack is always a little bit faded, and my usual 25min runs dont really help :]

[plained]

well whatever men but dont wear yourselves out .

i mean your cartilages ey

that shit only goes "x" miles yo

[Guest]

I don't think you need to stop taking in carbs right after your workout. That's probably one of the few times it is still fine. There's a window of opportunity, if I remember correctly, after your workout, to take in the carbs...most will go to replenishing liver glycogen stores and whatnot as opposed to stored as fat.

So I would not abandon the post-workout carb drink.

But I haven't looked at the research lately...

Fuck now I'm completely confused

[tnf]

Ok...
Let me help -

First off - none of us are going to be competing in bodybuilding shows, thus, I doubt seriously whether it is worth worrying over an extra 10g of carbs after a workout or something.

I'm a big believer in simplicity and trial and error when it comes to training and diet - and by trial and error I mean experimenting with a variety of diet/training strategies and finding out which works best for you.

When I was at my strongest, and in my best shape, I would only go to the gym knowing what bodypart I was training. I wouldn't have a pre-planned workout in mind, necessarily, as far as sets and reps went...maybe a few core exercises I planned on doing, but I went by feel most of the time. That was later in my training 'career' (for lack of a better term), after years of using more spelled out workouts.

I had some good succcess following some canned workouts (like the add 50 lbs to your bench press routine from muscle media - that was responsible for giving me my greatest strength gains and I still recommend it to people looking to increase their bench - I was pushing 125 lb dumbell presses by the end of that thing - let me know if you are interested in it.)

What I'm getting at there is that I think it gets a bit overdone to dissect out trianing down to the last rep. If you are in a strength building phase, there are basic routines, rep/set schemes you follow. If you are in a cutting phase, there are others...or you could use the same ones...it all depends. That being said, I'm not against using very specific training routines - having a list of what, exactly you are going to do or even having every rep for a 6 week period planned out. But eventually I came to a point where I was comfortable just training with a mix of routines and plans used in years past. The same went with my diet - although to be honest, it wasn't something I gave a LOT of attention too.

I don't think you need to abandon your post workout carb drink. I don't think all the extra pounds you gained came directly from that - although increased glycogen stores will result in more water weight - this is unavoidable. Again - immediately after a workout, your body wants to replenish liver glycogen. So, getting carbs post workout will help with this - and you want carbs with a high glycemic index - I'd say dextrose. It's a simple sugar, readily absorbed. Maltodextrin is also used in a lot of post-workout drinks - but some folks don't care for maltodextrin. I've seen varying opinions on how much carbohydrate to take in post workout. Some sources say up to 1.5g per kg of bodyweight. THat might be high for a low-carb diet, but again, remember, we are replenishing glycogen stores here...post workout, when that occurs most effectively.

So, keep your post workout drink - make sure it is high-glycemic index sugars, and include some protein and maybe take a multivitamin too. Otherwise, don't overanalyze the low carb stuff. Stay away from carbs when you can. Avoid breads, pasta, ketchup, etc.
Try to take the carbs you do ingest in the morning. Definitely no carbs within 3 hours of bedtime. But I dont' think you want to do a low cab diet like bodybuilders do during a cutting phase pre-contest. Those are really no fun.

[Guest]

Well, last spring/summer I went on Atkins, I followed it to the letter, no more than 20g of carbs per day, no exceptions what so ever. My weight dropped from 196lbs to 173 in the period of about 3-4 months, and stayed like that until this spring, when I started eating a lot of carbs because I wanted to gain more muscle from my training (protein too of course) so now my weight is about 181lbs and I want it to go down to low 170's again, since I got a big gut now

I'll see what works for me though, like you're saying :icon14:

[[xeno]Julios]

Nice links Julios. i recognize myself in that guy: "Somehow, the idea of sitting on a bike and going nowhere is a little weird to me."

Although im far from fat, and in pretty good condition, im gonna give this a try, since my sixpack is always a little bit faded, and my usual 25min runs dont really help :]

You could incorporate windsprints into your runs. How far do you run in 25 min btw?