I wanna be strong like batman

[saturn]

Well that's what I mean.. If it enters the stomach, the amino chain is broken down. Which is one reason why people can't drink insulin. But there's a really popular bodybuilding supplement comapny called "Dorian Yates' approved" that calls one of it's most expensive protein shakes "pro-peptide"..

I didn't think a peptide could be taken orally because it gets broken down in the didgestive system before it can be absorbed as a full chain.

let's summarize....proteins and peptides are broken down in the stomach and duodenum to become amino acids which are absorbed in the intestines. Proteins are poly-peptides. Peptides are poly-amino acids.

I've never heard of pro-peptides before, nevermind that. I've learned about pro-enzymes that need alteration to become full functional enzymes. So pro-peptides have some kind of structure that they can't be broken down by stomach acid and enzymes. They still need some alteration before they can be absorbed.

Insulin is a protein, it only works in its unaltered state which cannot be achieved through oral passage. If it could be administered orally, they would have done it years ago.

But your post made me curious, I need to open some books again on biochemistry. btw, props for your knowledge on cholesterol to testerone, that's an intricate pathway.

Yates is probably calling it a pro-peptide because he is advertising it as an precursor to something else...ignoring the fact that it will be broken down into constituent amino acids anyhow.

He probably bound a sulfate group to the peptide.

[tnf]

Insulin is a protein, it only works in its unaltered state which cannot be achieved through oral passage. If it could be administered orally, they would have done it years ago.

But your post made me curious, I need to open some books again on biochemistry. btw, props for your knowledge on cholesterol to testerone, that's an intricate pathway.

One thing about oral administration of things...
During graduate school, I looked extensively into the use of transgenic plants to delivery vaccinations. Wouldn't the fact that an immune response can occur upon the oral administration of a protein imply that, at the very least, intact peptide fragments can make it to the bloodstream?

[tnf]

Maybe if you have a lot of muscle breakdown then those amino acids would come in handy.

Could be. Not all proteins are equal when it comes to muscle building.

[saturn]

peptides, sure. I didn't say that it couldn't. But it's different with large poly-peptides like proteins.

Almost all vaccinations require intramuscular injections to get a proper immune response btw. They only thing I can think of at this moment that was administered orally is the pox vaccin.

[tnf]

Ok, I just misread your post. No biggie.

BTW - plant vaccines:
http://www.mcb.uct.ac.za/plant_vaccines ... 20Vaccines

Do some googling - there is a lot out there. I did my research in 1998-99, so I am sure things have changed..

[saturn]

Maybe if you have a lot of muscle breakdown then those amino acids would come in handy.

Could be. Not all proteins are equal when it comes to muscle building.

You only need a small amount of proteins every day to refill the balance. So if you're building extra muscles you will surely need some extras. I'm being captain obvious now, aren't I?

[saturn]

Ok, I just misread your post. No biggie.

BTW - plant vaccines:
http://www.mcb.uct.ac.za/plant_vaccines ... 20Vaccines

Do some googling - there is a lot out there. I did my research in 1998-99, so I am sure things have changed..

sounds great....if this could be done on a large scale it will dramatically lower the costs of vaccinations. I've been vaccinating a lot of travellers lately and a simple vaccination like Hepatitis A costs 40 euros here. Big money for the pharmaceutical industry.

[tnf]

Yea, that's the proposal a friend and I were trying to get across. It was part of a biotech class - we had to come up with a biotech product, do all the research, feasibility studies, figure out how much it would cost to license/patent all the technology, do a 5 and 20 year economic outlook, etc.

We looked at developing transgenic carrots to deliver a rabies vaccination.

There are a lot of considerations to make - for example making sure there is no way you modified strains can contaminate the 'natural' gene pool, but I think the future may be good for this...

[tnf]

Maybe if you have a lot of muscle breakdown then those amino acids would come in handy.

Could be. Not all proteins are equal when it comes to muscle building.

You only need a small amount of proteins every day to refill the balance. So if you're building extra muscles you will surely need some extras. I'm being captain obvious now, aren't I?

Yup. That's why you can train until you drop dead, but if you don't get enough protein, you won't gain extra muscle - period. The huge debate centers on how much protein is enough for sufficient muscle growth during intense weight training.

[saturn]

Yea, that's the proposal a friend and I were trying to get across. It was part of a biotech class - we had to come up with a biotech product, do all the research, feasibility studies, figure out how much it would cost to license/patent all the technology, do a 5 and 20 year economic outlook, etc.

We looked at developing transgenic carrots to deliver a rabies vaccination.

There are a lot of considerations to make - for example making sure there is no way you modified strains can contaminate the 'natural' gene pool, but I think the future may be good for this...

transgenic carrots, heh. Imagine that in your local groceries.

Shame the industry is mainly interested in western disease medicines like proton pump inhibitors and statines, where the big money is.

[tnf]

Yea, and folks are so paranoid about transgenic plants because they view them as 'frankenstein-like' in nature...

Sucks.

[andyman]

Start with push ups every fucking morning.

or get a job where you work all day instead of stitting all day

[mik0rs]

Yup. That's why you can train until you drop dead, but if you don't get enough protein, you won't gain extra muscle - period. The huge debate centers on how much protein is enough for sufficient muscle growth during intense weight training.

That just reminded me that I needed a protein shake, the taste never gets any better.

Chocolate? Hmm.