Quake3World

themuffinman wrote:About time... he did roughly jack-shit for id over the past decade. He's a relic who had his time, id needs someone with new ideas and innovation to push things forward.

Are you confusing Carmack with id Software's creative lead, Tim Willits?

So, no more Carmack 900 hour keynote speech with no toilet break and a single bottle of water in hand at Quakecon.

Or, maybe he will still be there and talking about VR?

good for him... was a smart move.
At least he can work on something relevant and revolutionize a market all over again.

yea sry johnny but vr bollocks uuuuhhh

its like these trendies shouting at a screen instead of using remote

or large touch screen users

comedy gold!

Why does everyone hate on the occulus? You're a bunch of fucks.

There's so much cool shit I could do in D3 with it, honestly. Hater's gonna hate. Cows gonna moo. So pretty...

I am seriously considering getting the occulus for my driving sim. However, someone pointed out a very important point about the occulus as it sits on your face: you cannot see out of it. You cannot see your keyboard if you need to find a button, you cannot see your flight sticks if you're doing a flight sim and need to deploy flaps.

You're basically blind to any controls you may need your eyes to see and use.

Like I said, I plan on getting one and I'll wait for the reviews to see if the "blindness" problem is acceptable, but I'm not spending a dime until I'm sure.

good point. But that issue will be very specific. I rarely looked at my keyboard in games that have well defined actions. Granted, a flight sim, could require almost the full use of a keyboard for a complete experience. but most fps shooters shouldn't pose that problem. you could also, take the time to somewhat braille up some key buttons to help you navigate better. I'm sure this issue is more problematic in theory than it will be in practice if you're resourceful and plan your controls accordingly.

This might be far fetched, but maybe an onboard camera could become part of the system, that somehow superimposes a picture in picture of your hands on the keyboard when you make the suggestion of naturaly gazing downwards on your keyboard, or maybe activated by some voice command, or some non instructive mouse and/or keyboard shortcut.

I was thinking he would be better going a kinda AR/VR road because of what GFY said, perhaps dim the primary display when you look down to show the environment or someshit. Adding a cam to the oculus would've only been beneficial, adding 2 cams would've been hardcore.

I get annoyed on monitors when my hand accidently drifts over 1 keyset and start strafing right when I should be backpeddling, by the time you mashed on caps lock and presented the steam overlay you've already died

With that said, if you're planning on using a pad the only thing you have to worry about is people pulling funny faces at you, or silent robbers. I spose the whole point of VR though is detaching you from the real environment but I don't think Carmack is making or will make any major breakthroughs when compared to what others have attempted, ya think ?. I don't think UI was his strong point

losCHUNK wrote:I spose the whole point of VR though is detaching you from the real environment but I don't think Carmack is making or will make any major breakthroughs when compared to what others have attempted, ya think ?. I don't think UI was his strong point

Remember he's the guy that took the "use" key out of Doom3.

Still some way to go before he finds a way for smokers to find their ash tray with a blindfold

I was thinking the 'window' effect would be nice with the cameras, if you could somehow zoom out the screen then fix it in 3d space so that you can walk away then come back to it in your real environment, I think that'd be pretty sweet. Maybe have a fade out to your room in your peripheral vision. Then squash it down to the size of sunglasses.

Carmack keeps going on about improving screen resolutions and latency, motion sickness n all that but I don't think that's the main issues. These issues can be fixed once a viable platform has been implemented and I don't think it's anywhere near viable at the moment. He could be relying on 3rd party devs to make use of his epic hardware / software, but they're still stuck with the same constraints that every VR headset made before the Oculus has suffered with, no ?

And I still want one , I think being able to track your head movement independent of your controller could be pretty fun for FPSs. Unless you plan on replacing your wallpaper with TVs then only a headset can do that. What he is doing will only aid the development though (cos the devkits I looked at are pretty shit), so seeing as id aren't making full use of his talents he may aswell go and do something beneficial

I am very pissed off though, I said during the last Quakecon that if Carmack left id are dead. I told my brother about Carmack and he said "If Gabe even thinks of entertaining an offer I'm gonna burn his bollocks with fire" before walking off. The great id were pretty much taken down by Rage... A game that wasn't even shit ffs !

DRuM wrote:So, no more Carmack 900 hour keynote speech with no toilet break and a single bottle of water in hand at Quakecon.

Or, maybe he will still be there and talking about VR?

Perhaps he will: https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/statu ... 0731594752

losCHUNK wrote:I spose the whole point of VR though is detaching you from the real environment but I don't think Carmack is making or will make any major breakthroughs when compared to what others have attempted, ya think ?. I don't think UI was his strong point

Wait, what? The arguably biggest genius in the game industry has joined the most successful and progressive company in the field of VR and you're questioning whether he'll make any major breakthroughs compared to what others have done?
I don't know if the word "breakthrough" is the right word, but I'm pretty sure the Occulus Rift is the first to be doing VR stuff the proper way, and with Carmack added to the equation, things can only improve.

And what are you babbling about UI not being Carmack's strong point? Are you using the term UI (as in "user interface") correct here? Are you saying that the user interfaces of id Software's games are shitty because of John Carmack? I'm pretty sure that he's had little to do in the way of designing or even programming the UI's for id's games since Quake 2.

losCHUNK wrote:Carmack keeps going on about improving screen resolutions and latency, motion sickness n all that but I don't think that's the main issues.

Actually, these are pretty major problems he's pointing out, and people "in the know" pretty much agree with him (or, in some cases, Carmack has agreed on this with other people).

losCHUNK wrote:These issues can be fixed once a viable platform has been implemented and I don't think it's anywhere near viable at the moment.

What do you mean "a viable platform"? If you're talking about Occulus itself, then yeah, it's not where it should be yet, but that's mainly because of the issues you mentioned above. And that's the sort of stuff they're working on to improve right now.

losCHUNK wrote:He could be relying on 3rd party devs to make use of his epic hardware / software, but they're still stuck with the same constraints that every VR headset made before the Oculus has suffered with, no ?

No. Occulus is aiming to find solutions for the problems previous VR sets have suffered from. Not being able to see your keyboard is probably only a minor issue. Other input methods are available, such as a controller, which won't suffer from that problem.

Eraser wrote:Not being able to see your keyboard is probably only a minor issue. Other input methods are available, such as a controller, which won't suffer from that problem.

I agree that you won't have any problems with console controllers and buttons on steering wheels, but I have to disagree about not being able to see the keyboard as "a minor issue".

Just last month I was forced to buy a backlit keyboard, just so I can see which button was which. My keyboard (and mouse) are located on slidable keyboard trays underneath my desk (so I could move my three monitors closer and wrap around my head) and I was getting fucked up in games because I needed to press a specific button to quickly get out of trouble. Since my eyes were adjusted to the bright screens it took quite a while to even focus on the keyboard in the dark, let alone begin pressing the correct button. And for anyone to go ahead and say "well you can reassign the button" would be missing the point entirely.

And regarding console controllers and "hands on" interface helping the "blindness" while wearing the headset: if you're a PC gamer you'll only use a controller for a few games and if you're a console gamer wearing a VR headset, why would you sit on the couch? Why would you even bother to set it up in the living room? Doesn't wearing this negate any difference in whether or not the platform is PC or console?

I simply don't see it as a "minor issue" in any situation.

Actually, these are pretty major problems he's pointing out, and people "in the know" pretty much agree with him (or, in some cases, Carmack has agreed on this with other people).

losCHUNK wrote:These issues can be fixed once a viable platform has been implemented and I don't think it's anywhere near viable at the moment.

What do you mean "a viable platform"? If you're talking about Occulus itself, then yeah, it's not where it should be yet, but that's mainly because of the issues you mentioned above. And that's the sort of stuff they're working on to improve right now.

losCHUNK wrote:He could be relying on 3rd party devs to make use of his epic hardware / software, but they're still stuck with the same constraints that every VR headset made before the Oculus has suffered with, no ?

No. Occulus is aiming to find solutions for the problems previous VR sets have suffered from. Not being able to see your keyboard is probably only a minor issue. Other input methods are available, such as a controller, which won't suffer from that problem.

1st up VR isn't progressive in the slightest, Carmack said himself the industry was pretty much stagnant for 10/15 years + and major manufacturers have attempted implementing similiar designs in the past and have failed because of the physical limitations accompanied with a VR headset and how to construct a UI around it, I heard Valve had sacked their VR team recently ?. AR on the otherhand has been included on phones because of 3dof sensors and GPS. Those sensors were included in the mobile 'platforms' so that devs could make use of them and make their product better than it already was even if the majority of apps don't bother using either and helped the smartphone market take over.

I'm sure people agree with him but Oculus offers nothing new, infact it offers less without forward mounted cameras and if the platform were viable then (I believe) the issues Carmack talks about would have been corrected once a consumer base was found as increasing screen resolution and fixing latency issues aren't going a long way to re-invent the wheel. How many people are you aware of that had complained about the resolution on a VR headset or the motion sickness that accompanies it ?, if I thought it were an issue I had always assumed that a better headset would offer greater resolution and latency can be omitted with wizardry. In truth you could probaly refine an old headset to do pretty much what Carmack has done with the Oculus if you wanted to burn a shitload of time. It's not hard getting a display output to a headset then detaching controls to the sensors.

Carmack might be a programming genius and he will no doubt make the headset the best that is availiable, but my point is it is still a VR headset that follows the same principles as all of those before it and will come with the same drawbacks for both devs and consumer. TBH I think this will only benefit those who were already thinking / have a VR headset and will never be a consumer item in the same way that consoles / TVs are because this really is as good as it gets and all Carmack has essentially done is offered an overall update for the headsets because the market fell behind when no one wanted it.

VR headsets traditionally have a few drawbacks: resolution, weight, price, and latency. The first three are quickly becoming feasible as lightweight, high resolution displays are becoming widely available and affordable. Latency resides in issues with software, Carmack as a master of optimization is someone unique who can handle the problem.

Seeing the keyboard... can't that be solved with better on-screen interfaces? It might not be the end-all solution, but I'm sure it would make it feasible. I don't typically look down at my keyboard when playing FPS games. I only look at my keyboard when playing and RTS or something, in which wearing VR goggles seem kind of pointless in the first place.

Rage was... shit... honestly.

Meh... the game was but at least it was pretty.

it was very pretty, I have a long winded post somewhere in this forum describing my experience with it. there were specific locations and situations where I felt compelled to take screenshots of... I rarely do that in video games.

My only complaints (other than really bad indoor textures) for Rage were that the borderline-RPG systems weren't deep enough, and that the ending felt rushed. Combat was really fun, the game world was cool, but could have been fleshed out more (see RPG complaint). It's all really cool. I'm sad that the IP will probably fade into obscurity, though, because it's surely not getting a sequel, and hell, maybe id itself will go under in the next couple of years.

Well, y'all know my opinion about Rage, but that ending was just mind numbingly stupid.

If you even remotely enjoyed Rage, then I can wholeheartedly recommend The Scorchers DLC, which is terrific.