No comments on Yemen, Libya, etc.?

[4days]

http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/ingam ... bya-995476

don't play eve or post on sa, but goons have always been a laugh in the games where i have bumped into them - very sorry to hear they're a man down

[Nightshade]

Timothy McVeigh was a religious nutbag who blew up a pretty big building. It certainly doesn't take much to start a violent riot, all you need is a sporting event and some beer, or some pigs beating down a black man. Seems like a bit of selective memory here, the U.S. can be a pretty violent place with religious and ethnic causes. The reason why the Middle East is laced with violence has more to do with the fragile political landscape that they have as a result of the fallout that has been handed to them though decades of meddling from Western societies. Constant war has left large caches of weapons scattered about. The result of which is also a lot of resentment for the U.S. from which can spark a whole lot of hatred and violence, and they have ample amounts of Western manufactured weapons to demonstrate it.

Not being selective in what I remember in the least, sir. I don't recall hearing anything about McVeigh's religious beliefs, mostly just anti-government, racist bullshit.

Soccer: Not a religious belief system.
Police brutality: Not a religious belief system or a culture.

I will certainly agree that aggressive, interventionist Western foreign policies beget resentment and tendencies toward violence. I do not, however, accept the fact that the West is solely to blame for all Arab/muslim violence. You can look up dozens and dozens of incidents of violence or threats of violence that are solely reprisals against those that have "insulted" Islam. Are you seriously going to sit there are act like there aren't HUGE numbers of muslims that absolutely lose their shit over the slightest hint of possible offense against anything or anyone connected with their faith? Really? Death threats against the creators of South Park? Connect that to Western foreign policy over the last 50 years or so, I'd like to see the math on that.

Sorry, but Islam is a faith that (much like Christianity) has been perverted and used as an excuse for violence time after time after time. My point is mostly that muslims tend to react more quickly and to a more aggressive extent than any other faith on the planet.

[Nightshade]

Conveniently forgetting about the Pentagon Prayer meetings during Bush's "crusade" or does that level of organization disqualify the Christians?

Uh, how is me not talking about anything other than the frequency of violent muslim reactions to "insults" against their religion "conveniently forgetting" anything? Did someone draw a nutty picture of God which resulted in Bush invading Afghanistan? No, a bunch of lunatic muslims flew planes into buildings because Westerners dared to step on Saudi soil.

[Tsakali]

If mad means confused, then yes I am. Do you even bother to pull your head out far enough to make any sense of what you write or is the pressure from your butt-cheeks compressing your skull?

Lol calm down kid. I don't feel like writing a small book for you to understand my post. Just do what u usually do when you're confused and be quiet .

[Nightshade]

Interesting you bring that up. Both WBC and the guys who made the video that instigated these attacks use the same tactics. They don't attack anyone, but provoke attacks to "prove" their own points of view.

Pastor Terry Jones may or may not have had a hand in creating the anti-Islam video on Muhammad that sparked these attacks, but he has been promoting it. He's previously made some seriously hateful videos. Hanging a mock-up Muhammad, burning the Quran, etc.

On September 10th, he posted this video, declaring September 11th (the day of these attacks) as "International Judge Muhammad Day." He claims that Muhammad and Islam are the direct work of the devil.

Exactly what is he promoting for action on this day? Hard to say, but it sounds like the same shit that went down in Libya and Egypt, just on the "other side." I would put as much of the blame on people like him as the people who take action.

Sure, the guy's a bigoted, intolerant douche. But are you equating being an asshole in a video to blowing up buildings? OK, both sides can rant about the other being evil all they want, but those that cross the line and start killing people...well, that goes beyond being a politically incorrect dick, don't you think?

[Psyche911]

Only slightly. People are stupid, people will do stupid things when someone of power tells them to.

I think people who ask for murder (what I see him doing) are past the limits of free speech and should be punished.

Literally the only thing missing from a bunch of moronic Americans doing the same is a mob mentality. If someone like him started a protest at the Libya or Egypt Embassy's, I wouldn't be at all surprised at the body count being even higher.

[GONNAFISTYA]

I'm not even considering the current state of religion and it's blatant abuse. Even in tribes that are not effected by the same level of greed and personal interest, there is a strong indication of similar behavior. It's an integral functionality, it seems.

Also, I didn't even know there was a theory on it, I thought I just got it off my bowl a few months ago. But then again I'm pretty awesome and this wouldn't be the first time I recreate the wheel independently.

You tend to hear the retarded arguments of "religion is natural" only come up during religion vs atheism debates, in the same way the religious types will insist we need religion for morality.

And again, "strong indications of similar behaviour" is loose evidence at best and completely ignores the possibility of supernatural beliefs being supplanted by actual knowledge. Imagine the world if a few selfish assholes didn't seize on it and turn it into government and it didn't became intrenched in not only dogma, but actual law?

[seremtan]

how to be a modern libyan

1) start an uprising against Gaddafi, tell the world you don't need their help
2) fail at your uprising, plead for outside help
3) cheer while american planes bomb your country
4) massacre some of your fellow citizens to celebrate
5) kill the american ambassador out of muslim butthurt
6) ???
7) PROPHET

[Tsakali]

And again, "strong indications of similar behaviour" is loose evidence at best and completely ignores the possibility of supernatural beliefs being supplanted by actual knowledge. Imagine the world if a few selfish assholes didn't seize on it and turn it into government and it didn't became intrenched in not only dogma, but actual law?

I'd imagine that under such circumstances, it will only be a matter of time before it gets used at a tool by someone...again.
It hasn't happened once, it has happened independently on pretty much any religion I can think of. But I guess you can't stifle human "ingenuity" (if you will) of such assholes.

I strongly believe in what I'm saying regardless of the fact that these assholes exacerbate the situation.

Belief in something comes naturally in a sense, and gets refined as more people collect around that idea.. and given enough time you will get the level of religious propaganda that you see on display in current times.

Anyway for whatever it's worth, I hope I am wrong, and this is strictly the result of a wrong path that we have taken as a society in general...but I'm skeptical.

[Nightshade]

Only slightly. People are stupid, people will do stupid things when someone of power tells them to.

I think people who ask for murder (what I see him doing) are past the limits of free speech and should be punished.

Literally the only thing missing from a bunch of moronic Americans doing the same is a mob mentality. If someone like him started a protest at the Libya or Egypt Embassy's, I wouldn't be at all surprised at the body count being even higher.

I agree, there's a line that gets crossed from free speech to inciting violence or a riot, and those acts are punishable under the law. But, I can't follow you farther than that, people are responsible for their own actions and killing someone is far worse than saying someone should be killed.

As far as comparing this to Americans doing something similar, look at the Rodney King/L.A. riots. Yes, a lot of people did a lot of vicious, violent, evil shit after those asswad cops were acquitted. That was the effects of people dealing with years and years of racism, bigotry, and state-sanctioned police brutality boiling over after a trigger event. It's not as if an L.A. cop drew a picture of someone beating the shit out of Rodney King and then people started rioting. That's pretty much what happens with muslims anytime someone farts in their religion's general direction.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Conveniently forgetting about the Pentagon Prayer meetings during Bush's "crusade" or does that level of organization disqualify the Christians?

Uh, how is me not talking about anything other than the frequency of violent muslim reactions to "insults" against their religion "conveniently forgetting" anything? Did someone draw a nutty picture of God which resulted in Bush invading Afghanistan? No, a bunch of lunatic muslims flew planes into buildings because Westerners dared to step on Saudi soil.

Really? Wow.

I will say though, you said, "a LARGE part of the muslim world really does consist of fundamentalist crazies" and point to the incident as evidence. Shouldn't the embassy have been targeted sooner in that case seeing as it had minimal to no defenses?

And I just find it odd that in your mind there is some huge imbalance in numbers between violent Muslim fundies compared to violent Christian fundies (thus my Iraq war comment).

Christians are the ones who try to convert everyone. This might have a little something to do with the problem.

[Nightshade]

Really? Wow.

I will say though, you said, "a LARGE part of the muslim world really does consist of fundamentalist crazies" and point to the incident as evidence. Shouldn't the embassy have been targeted sooner in that case seeing as it had minimal to no defenses?

And I just find it odd that in your mind there is some huge imbalance in numbers between violent Muslim fundies compared to violent Christian fundies (thus my Iraq war comment).

Christians are the ones who try to convert everyone. This might have a little something to do with the problem.

OK, I have no idea what you mean by "Really? Wow.", but perhaps we're just completely misunderstanding each other.

I didn't point to just this one incident, I am pointing to a SHIT TON of incidents like this. And there may not be a large difference in the number of crazy muslims and christians, but there are far more violent muslims. I'm curious as to why you would think otherwise. Can you point to similar acts being perpetrated by christians (or ANY other faith) in the last 50 years?
Yes, christians try to convert everyone, but muslims think they need to kill everyone.

"I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" Quran 8:12

"So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

And on and on. Yes, I'm sure there are violent verses in the bible as well, but again, I don't see angry christians storming embassies and flying planes into buildings because someone badmouthed Jeebus.

[scared?]

Accept defeat moron...u lost...

[xer0s]

lol, I love this...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one ... age,29553/

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

And there may not be a large difference in the number of crazy muslims and christians, but there are far more violent muslims. I'm curious as to why you would think otherwise. Can you point to similar acts being perpetrated by christians (or ANY other faith) in the last 50 years?

Bosnia and the Philippines come to mind immediately as does Bush's Crusade. Also I could link you to a whole bunch of attempted killings/bombings and such by so-called Christians against Muslims that have taken place in the USA in the last decade if you really want me to.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

That was just Christians, sorry. Hindus, Jews and Tamils have also violently shit on Muslims.

[4days]

lol, I love this...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one ... age,29553/

Anyway for whatever it's worth, I hope I am wrong, and this is strictly the result of a wrong path that we have taken as a society in general...but I'm skeptical.

taking the wrong path seems more likely - friction, heat and fire don't need a god for some hunter/gatherer of old to understand them, but the blueness of the sky or the majesty of the sun might be completely beyond his ken and warrant a little creative interpretation. if he's busy (say, absent-mindedly inventing a writing system) then why not let the tribe's mushroom-chewing deadbeat work on the whole blue sky/sun thing, those things are outside his control anyway so what harm can it do?

for the "which is the worst/most violent religion" thing, i can't imagine christians behaving any better (differently, but not better) if the tables were turned.

btw, can we bring israel into this and pretend they're jews? state-sanctioned assassinations and mass murder, influencing the affairs of other nations by any means necessary, all that stuff - that's pretty bad too. at the end of the day, organised religion is just a long row of cunts with barely a taint between them.

[GONNAFISTYA]

lol, I love this...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one ... age,29553/

[feedback]

It's a weird planet. I posted it about it on my fb and my friend made a comment that it was nice seeing his friend's death used for political gain. Apparently he was talking to Sean Smith when he said "FUCK" then "GUNFIRE", and that's the last thing he ever heard from him. Crazy.

[feedback]

Please negroe...Muslims got trolled by religious racists at the least...

Fundies on both sides are just as bad... We just Control ours better with our supremely more organized police state...

Holy shit those are some mental blinders. This thread will be the apologetics olympics.

[Nightshade]

Bosnia and the Philippines come to mind immediately as does Bush's Crusade. Also I could link you to a whole bunch of attempted killings/bombings and such by so-called Christians against Muslims that have taken place in the USA in the last decade if you really want me to.

I'm not saying that there haven't been instances wherein one faith has killed members of another. I would, however, caution you about mixing up strictly religious conflicts with ethnic/sectarian violence, e.g. Bosnia.

If you have links, I'd be more than happy to look at them. EDUCATE ME, BITCH.

Also, please keep in mind that the thrust of my argument here is that muslims are more prone to explode over perceived insults to their faith than anyone else.

[Nightshade]

lol, I love this...

http://www.theonion.com/articles/no-one ... age,29553/

Game, set, match.

[obsidian]

The thrust of my argument here is that muslims are more prone to explode over perceived insults to their faith than anyone else.

Muslims or people in the Middle East? I would disagree with you on the former, but may possibly agree with you on the latter. I really hope you aren't ignorantly using the two terms interchangeably.

[HM-PuFFNSTuFF]

Bosnia and the Philippines come to mind immediately as does Bush's Crusade. Also I could link you to a whole bunch of attempted killings/bombings and such by so-called Christians against Muslims that have taken place in the USA in the last decade if you really want me to.

I'm not saying that there haven't been instances wherein one faith has killed members of another. I would, however, caution you about mixing up strictly religious conflicts with ethnic/sectarian violence, e.g. Bosnia.

If you have links, I'd be more than happy to look at them. EDUCATE ME, BITCH.

Also, please keep in mind that the thrust of my argument here is that muslims are more prone to explode over perceived insults to their faith than anyone else.

Bosnia was ethnic (religious) genocide of 200000 people but that somehow doesn't count? seriously NS?

[Κracus]

Middle eastern people? They grow some good weed, well the Aphgans anyway.