The consensus that the agent's story is "the best" puzzles me. I probably already mentioned this in this thread, but I found the agent story to be so far-removed from Star Wars that I felt like I was just playing some generic sci-fi game. Other than the general MMO tropes that hook players, the reason I played this game was for a Star Wars fantasy, and the agent just wasn't that. Sith warrior and BH both delivered what I wanted (well, BH not as much), and I know other classes I want to check out too because they deliver. But the agent... as well-crafted as his story may be, it doesn't belong in SW.
I mean, the class itself is so thinly-rooted in SW. The archetype seems to be based on those officers that walk around Star Destroyers all day and follow orders. They're not even agents to begin with. One can imagine a "naval intelligence" or whatever; that's fine. But if I can't make strong connections between a class/story and the movies, the whole experience feels less authentic, like it's just really, really high-quality fan fiction or something.
That said, you didn't make a bad choice with the light side path. In fact, there's a really interesting, rare ending you can get with light side agents, if I recall...
Star Wars: The Old Republic
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Spoilers ahead.
Whups, looks like I missed earlier where you specifically mentioned the agent. I understand your sentiment, because I felt exactly the same way about the trooper story. There is virtually no Jedi/force involvement in the trooper's story from what I can recall [it gets a bit muddled when you're doing class and faction/planet quests simultaneously]. It may as well have been some generic sci-fi featuring some bland and generic military type.
However, I disagree completely about the agent [although bear in mind I'm only a few quests into chapter 2 at this point]. I don't think the story is quite so far removed from the Star Wars mythos. Firstly, there is some very strong Sith involvement. Right from the beginning, it is shown clearly how the Empire and the Sith don't necessarily equate to each other, but are intertwined in complex ways. They show how Sith politicking and infighting occasionally even gets in the way of Imperial business, and can be detrimental to the Empire as a whole.
As a non-Sith imperial agent, you are shown as being subservient to the whims of the Sith and considered to be lesser than them, but you don't necessarily have to agree with that stance. Keeper tells you to obey Darth Jadus and to not piss him off. At one point, Jadus entreats you bow to him. You can choose to do so, or get literally killed by him [zapped by lightning] if you refuse to do so.
These are strong scenarios that brilliant depict life as a non-Sith, in the Empire, in a force based universe. Conversely, the trooper story never touched themes like this. I got a stronger feeling of this kind of thing in the Jedi Knight story, from NPCs in Corellia [both from Republic troops and local planet NPCs].
I don't think it's at all unreasonable to assume that a military the size of the Empire's would have a covert ops division, so I don't see the lack of precedent in the movies as being that terrible a thing. And you'd hardly expect covert ops to be the folks walking around their starships or whathaveyou. They'd be in the shadows, doing their covert opsy things.
If you take the original trilogy as canon, republic troopers make even less sense because it was the rebel alliance, and the shock troops were imperial. The republic troops in the 3 prequels were clones iirc?
I especially like the agent story because of how well constructed it is compared to the trooper story.
Whups, looks like I missed earlier where you specifically mentioned the agent. I understand your sentiment, because I felt exactly the same way about the trooper story. There is virtually no Jedi/force involvement in the trooper's story from what I can recall [it gets a bit muddled when you're doing class and faction/planet quests simultaneously]. It may as well have been some generic sci-fi featuring some bland and generic military type.
However, I disagree completely about the agent [although bear in mind I'm only a few quests into chapter 2 at this point]. I don't think the story is quite so far removed from the Star Wars mythos. Firstly, there is some very strong Sith involvement. Right from the beginning, it is shown clearly how the Empire and the Sith don't necessarily equate to each other, but are intertwined in complex ways. They show how Sith politicking and infighting occasionally even gets in the way of Imperial business, and can be detrimental to the Empire as a whole.
As a non-Sith imperial agent, you are shown as being subservient to the whims of the Sith and considered to be lesser than them, but you don't necessarily have to agree with that stance. Keeper tells you to obey Darth Jadus and to not piss him off. At one point, Jadus entreats you bow to him. You can choose to do so, or get literally killed by him [zapped by lightning] if you refuse to do so.
These are strong scenarios that brilliant depict life as a non-Sith, in the Empire, in a force based universe. Conversely, the trooper story never touched themes like this. I got a stronger feeling of this kind of thing in the Jedi Knight story, from NPCs in Corellia [both from Republic troops and local planet NPCs].
I don't think it's at all unreasonable to assume that a military the size of the Empire's would have a covert ops division, so I don't see the lack of precedent in the movies as being that terrible a thing. And you'd hardly expect covert ops to be the folks walking around their starships or whathaveyou. They'd be in the shadows, doing their covert opsy things.
If you take the original trilogy as canon, republic troopers make even less sense because it was the rebel alliance, and the shock troops were imperial. The republic troops in the 3 prequels were clones iirc?
I especially like the agent story because of how well constructed it is compared to the trooper story.
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Your point about sith politics is taken. I wasn't even thinking about Darth Jadus and so on. Minor spoilers that happen around the point in the story where you are (I think): when the entire story starts revolving around hypnotization, programmed keywords, and Raiden (from the MGS series) is the antagonist, you will perhaps feel less a part of Star Wars and more like you're in a boring SyFy (however the fuck they spell it) Channel original movie on a Saturday afternoon.
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
So the expansion to this came out about two weeks ago. It's called Rise of the Hutt Cartel. It's pretty low-key, compared to WoW expansions, but still really good. Ten bucks for subscribers, twenty for non-subs. It felt really good to, after a year of him lying dormant, revive my sith juggernaut and take him through the new storyline. The writing and voice acting is pretty stock BioWare, which is to say, it's still pretty much the best in the industry, RPG-wise, and without question the best in the MMO space.
New flashpoints, a new raid (maybe their best yet, if you're into the raid scene of MMOs), class changes and re-balancing, five more talent points and five more levels. It's a nice little package that you will easily get your money's worth from.
After all of the negative press this game's gotten over the last year, it feels good to be able to honestly congratulate them and give praise to the expansion. Really good work, and lots of fun.
New flashpoints, a new raid (maybe their best yet, if you're into the raid scene of MMOs), class changes and re-balancing, five more talent points and five more levels. It's a nice little package that you will easily get your money's worth from.
After all of the negative press this game's gotten over the last year, it feels good to be able to honestly congratulate them and give praise to the expansion. Really good work, and lots of fun.
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Yea, the expansion was released shortly after I got to this point:
[lvlshot]http://i.imgur.com/bqeGngF.jpg[/lvlshot]
I still haven't gotten it yet, and I don't think I will. The fourth time going through the same planet/faction quests is when I really wished this had been a single player game. Since then, I've found KOTOR 1 & 2 on Steam and am replaying them. Right off the bat, you're orbiting Taris in the Endar Spire. Of course, the crash site for the ship features as a quest location in Taris in SWTOR. I had completely missed this reference when I was playing SWTOR. Looking forward to finding other references as well.
Back to the earlier discussion. Yep, Act 2 of the agent took a departure from Sith / the force, but it was still really well written and brilliantly executed. The first time I tried telling off my handlers, when my character spoke in acquiescence instead of defiance as I had intended to, boy did that raise my hackles. Act 3 was strong as well, with the dismantling of the whole ministry of intelligence, and with Keeper and the minister going rogue. I still rate this story very highly.
Here's a super quick summary of what I thought of all the story lines:
Jedi Knight: probably my favourite, albeit a bit clichéd "hero saves galaxy". Ultimate badassery in that you face and kill the emperor.
Jedi Consular: pretty meh. Act as a diplomat, cure [or kill] some Jedi, kill some Sith who's NOT the emperor. Bleh. Yea, it's easy to see the developer bias here.
Smuggler: nothing too special, but a good distraction from the ultra-seriousness of the other classes. Light-hearted and pretty fun.
Trooper: very meh, already explained why.
Sith Warrior: decent story, but a weak pay-off IMO. All you do is kill your master and become the emperor's "Wrath"? Big whoop.
Sith Inquisitor: more meh than the warrior, and another weak pay-off. Note that the two Sith force users are pretty much just involved with infighting and Sith politics, rather than fighting Jedi.
Imperial Agent: easily my second favourite, and a very close one to the Jedi Knight. A very strong Act 3, which is a bit of a rarity in this game [even though you get roped into the war].
Bounty Hunter: very meh. OK, the class is steeped in Star Wars lore, but the story sucked ass. Big Hunt --> more bounties --> get recruited by a Sith Lord for the war. Fucking hell, just as bad as the Trooper.
I think Act 3 in general is a very weak part of the game. One aspect of this is the "front loading" of quality story line, which is an industry wide practice it seems. But pretty much: the treaty of Coruscant is going to get broken and war is going to happen regardless, and they just need any convenient excuse to shunt you along from Belsavis to Voss to Corellia. Jedi Knight and Imperial Agent were notable exceptions to this in that they made it plausible / exciting enough.
Another aspect to this, and one of the only weak points of imperial agent IMO, are companions. Some classes, like the Trooper, had a brilliant lineup of companions. Each one made sense and was a great fit to your team. You were building a cohesive squad, and it really showed in the quality of the characters. The agent, in contrast, had a very weak and disjointed squad. By far the dumbest aspect being the recruitment of Kaliyo, the gutter trash criminal type who then goes on to betray you and sell your information. This, with your character being an intelligence agent [of all things], made absolutely no sense to me.
Force users having their own padawans/apprentices was pretty cool [all of whom were well implemented]. There were some other great characters like Vette, Khem Val, Vector, Elara Dorne and Mako. Then there were some shitty ones like Skadge and Guss Tuno. And some completely forgettable and dull ones like Zenith, Andronikos Revel and Talos Drellik.
[lvlshot]http://i.imgur.com/bqeGngF.jpg[/lvlshot]
I still haven't gotten it yet, and I don't think I will. The fourth time going through the same planet/faction quests is when I really wished this had been a single player game. Since then, I've found KOTOR 1 & 2 on Steam and am replaying them. Right off the bat, you're orbiting Taris in the Endar Spire. Of course, the crash site for the ship features as a quest location in Taris in SWTOR. I had completely missed this reference when I was playing SWTOR. Looking forward to finding other references as well.
Back to the earlier discussion. Yep, Act 2 of the agent took a departure from Sith / the force, but it was still really well written and brilliantly executed. The first time I tried telling off my handlers, when my character spoke in acquiescence instead of defiance as I had intended to, boy did that raise my hackles. Act 3 was strong as well, with the dismantling of the whole ministry of intelligence, and with Keeper and the minister going rogue. I still rate this story very highly.
Here's a super quick summary of what I thought of all the story lines:
Jedi Knight: probably my favourite, albeit a bit clichéd "hero saves galaxy". Ultimate badassery in that you face and kill the emperor.
Jedi Consular: pretty meh. Act as a diplomat, cure [or kill] some Jedi, kill some Sith who's NOT the emperor. Bleh. Yea, it's easy to see the developer bias here.
Smuggler: nothing too special, but a good distraction from the ultra-seriousness of the other classes. Light-hearted and pretty fun.
Trooper: very meh, already explained why.
Sith Warrior: decent story, but a weak pay-off IMO. All you do is kill your master and become the emperor's "Wrath"? Big whoop.
Sith Inquisitor: more meh than the warrior, and another weak pay-off. Note that the two Sith force users are pretty much just involved with infighting and Sith politics, rather than fighting Jedi.
Imperial Agent: easily my second favourite, and a very close one to the Jedi Knight. A very strong Act 3, which is a bit of a rarity in this game [even though you get roped into the war].
Bounty Hunter: very meh. OK, the class is steeped in Star Wars lore, but the story sucked ass. Big Hunt --> more bounties --> get recruited by a Sith Lord for the war. Fucking hell, just as bad as the Trooper.
I think Act 3 in general is a very weak part of the game. One aspect of this is the "front loading" of quality story line, which is an industry wide practice it seems. But pretty much: the treaty of Coruscant is going to get broken and war is going to happen regardless, and they just need any convenient excuse to shunt you along from Belsavis to Voss to Corellia. Jedi Knight and Imperial Agent were notable exceptions to this in that they made it plausible / exciting enough.
Another aspect to this, and one of the only weak points of imperial agent IMO, are companions. Some classes, like the Trooper, had a brilliant lineup of companions. Each one made sense and was a great fit to your team. You were building a cohesive squad, and it really showed in the quality of the characters. The agent, in contrast, had a very weak and disjointed squad. By far the dumbest aspect being the recruitment of Kaliyo, the gutter trash criminal type who then goes on to betray you and sell your information. This, with your character being an intelligence agent [of all things], made absolutely no sense to me.
Force users having their own padawans/apprentices was pretty cool [all of whom were well implemented]. There were some other great characters like Vette, Khem Val, Vector, Elara Dorne and Mako. Then there were some shitty ones like Skadge and Guss Tuno. And some completely forgettable and dull ones like Zenith, Andronikos Revel and Talos Drellik.
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
I may have to create an operative at some point and look at the agent story through fresh eyes. When I rolled my sniper over a year ago, it really just didn't do it for me.
I have a sorc that just completed chapter 2 and I like the story, but it is pretty out-there at some points and again, really misses the boat sometimes on feeling like Star Wars. Khem Val started out as this amazing, evil, terminator kind of character that I enjoyed having around... and then... he's speaking with a woman's voice? (yes of course I understand why, it's just very abrupt and changes the tone and aesthetic of the experience dramaticlaly)
Again, I've read next-to-nothing bad about the JK story, and how satisfying it is. Going to have to complete that at some point. Right now, I'm busy getting my existing max level characters to 55 and gearing them out, so the thought of either finishing the sorc or starting a new character anytime soon doesn't seem appealing.
You're right about Act 3, though I personally found the warrior's confrontation with Darth Baras to be pretty satisfying. But Act 3 feels like the shortest act, and the story quality is jettisoned in favor ferrying the player into the endgame, maybe. You might enjoy the story of Makeb (the 50-55 expansion story). It's very tightly-focused and has a definite beginning and end and feels like its own little game. Come to think of it, in terms of focused story quality, it feels almost like an origin world questline, i.e. Korriban, etc, in that there's not a ton of side quests and the story does a good job of moving forward constantly and gaining momentum. Sorry for advertising BioWare, but you probably should check it out at some point. For its price point, it's well worth the cost.
I have a sorc that just completed chapter 2 and I like the story, but it is pretty out-there at some points and again, really misses the boat sometimes on feeling like Star Wars. Khem Val started out as this amazing, evil, terminator kind of character that I enjoyed having around... and then... he's speaking with a woman's voice? (yes of course I understand why, it's just very abrupt and changes the tone and aesthetic of the experience dramaticlaly)
Again, I've read next-to-nothing bad about the JK story, and how satisfying it is. Going to have to complete that at some point. Right now, I'm busy getting my existing max level characters to 55 and gearing them out, so the thought of either finishing the sorc or starting a new character anytime soon doesn't seem appealing.
You're right about Act 3, though I personally found the warrior's confrontation with Darth Baras to be pretty satisfying. But Act 3 feels like the shortest act, and the story quality is jettisoned in favor ferrying the player into the endgame, maybe. You might enjoy the story of Makeb (the 50-55 expansion story). It's very tightly-focused and has a definite beginning and end and feels like its own little game. Come to think of it, in terms of focused story quality, it feels almost like an origin world questline, i.e. Korriban, etc, in that there's not a ton of side quests and the story does a good job of moving forward constantly and gaining momentum. Sorry for advertising BioWare, but you probably should check it out at some point. For its price point, it's well worth the cost.
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Get a room, nerds.
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Playing through this now on my Jedi Knight =]Mogul wrote:You might enjoy the story of Makeb (the 50-55 expansion story).
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Heh, I've been playing a lot too lately and recently the got "Legendary Player" status, which it seems you probably have too. Not playing serious at all though. Just there for the Star Wars sounds and music and visual aesthetic (wow, some of these cartel sets look incredible).
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Played it a bit ; Just for the single player experience . I can't light up for MMOs anymore after spending some quite time with World of Warcraft .
It was OK but not overly entertaining - A Bioware style experience with some WoW like grinds mixed in .
It was OK but not overly entertaining - A Bioware style experience with some WoW like grinds mixed in .
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Aye, I did all the class stories before I stopped playing a few years ago. The expansion storylines seem common across all the classes though [?], so I think I'm just going to do one Republic, and one Empire character. Also, have they tweaked the levelling curve at all? I remember struggling like mad to keep level with the class storyline level from 1-50, but I was 57 when I finished Makeb, and I'm already 60 partway through Rishi.Mogul wrote:Heh, I've been playing a lot too lately and recently the got "Legendary Player" status, which it seems you probably have too. Not playing serious at all though. Just there for the Star Wars sounds and music and visual aesthetic (wow, some of these cartel sets look incredible).
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
it is easier to level now because you get more experience points and gold mobs don't hit nearly as hard
This line only remake is total rubbish I've ever seen!!! Fuck off!!! --CZghost
Re: Star Wars: The Old Republic
Holy shit. How fucking good is KotFE? RotHC and SoR were just "okay" but KotFE is absolutely superb. I'm only 4 chapters in, but it's so damn well made. The storyline is [almost?] on par with the class stories. Not like the usual run of the mill chaff. The first couple of chapters in particular [including the nightmare], my god. I'm glad Ep7 made me re-sub 