[Beta] pukka3tourney7

[Dessicated corpse]

Cool map! I really like the nighttime theme!

[sumatra]

I pushed the brightness in the screenshots, it looks higher in contrast ingame.
But you're right, also my own expectation regarding the lighting is huge...
Thanks for the input.

Regarding the theme, I'm more and more clear what direction I want to focus on. I keep you posted, it's good to get single impressions on screenshot to get a better feel for the theme and how it works.

Ambientlighting will be lowered from time to time. Now I'm at a value of 8.

[ShadoW_86]

I pushed the brightness in the screenshots, it looks higher in contrast ingame.

Ambientlighting will be lowered from time to time. Now I'm at a value of 8.

Actually I thought all the time that the maps is or fullbright for test porposes, or you overused -compensate o_O. Lightning is very flat ingame. I didn't want to write it for you earlier, but one of my first thoughts was, if you would remove items, and show the screenshot of the map, I would say it's q1 with custom textures. Actually flat lightning was also a problem in your last time (that was one thing I didn't like in it). I assume you have -compansate there, maybe try lowering it, also remove this ambient lightning. Such small value don't bring anything good anyway, as it's too small to light anything, and flush out natural dark spots.

I really hope you won't start to hate me after this map .

[monaster]

Why use ambient lighting? _minlight's the way to go, avoids washed out shadows and a few other things.

[Hipshot]

You still get washed out shadows if you go high enough...
I don't think ambient or _minlight is good at all if misused, it should probably always be kept at pretty low values, like <10...

[monaster]

You still get washed out shadows if you go high enough...

Wisely spoken.
About the max value: I got pretty descent results with values up to _minlight 30, but that surely depends on the map and its intended light source.

[ShadoW_86]

I don't think ambient or _minlight is good at all

I don't think so too . Hate ambient lightning, because it rips all what's great in q3 look. Used it once or two, but at level 3, 4. That's also why I'm not a fan of -compansate.

[sumatra]

Well, was busy the last weeks. So here is a little more progress.
Trying to get a nicely lit nighttheme with enough available light, without looking too flat.
And Shadow, I'm very glad about any feedback, so I don't hate you of course :-). It's the feedback that makes maps better.
At some point everyone gets a tunnel vision and loses the view on the important things.

I haven't added much, was just playing around with the lighting.. Oh and I added rain.

[Hipshot]

I can understand this.
Your lighting looks much better!

[cityy]

The yellow lights look somewhat out of place now, IMO.

[Pat Howard]

Looks good. I think I'm gonna have a little 1on1 session with a friend on this map. The latest version would be greatly appreciated if you're feeling generous enough to pack it up.

[Pat Howard]

Looks good. I think I'm gonna have a little 1on1 session with a friend on this map. The latest version would be greatly appreciated if you're feeling generous enough to pack it up.

[sumatra]

Hey thanks for you kind words, mates.

Yes Pat, I would really like to send you the latest version, regarding getting more gameplay feedback .
But I'm not at home tonight, so I can send you an E-Mail with the latest version only tomorrow.
Just send me a PM with your address.

Good night together.

[Pat Howard]

That was weird I don't know why that posted twice. I sent you a PM, check your inbox.

Thanks,
-pat

[ShadoW_86]

Well, skybox+rain+current lightning, yes, I'm starting to like it . Don't mess with mails/pms just post last release here .

[sumatra]

I didn't any massive structural changes and there are still some things to do for a next beta release.
So please stand by, should have a new beta candidate the next few days...


P.S. I'm glad you're starting to like it

[foralarx2k3]

Hey Sumatra,

Been a while ..... I rarely get time to play these days but I couldn't resist downloading this one (and a couple of the others on here ... if I get time I'll post feedback on them too l8r ... sorry folks).

Pre-cursor .. feedback is my own opinion .. take what you will from it ... ignore what you don't like ... even if it's all of it... after all it's your map.. I'm just along for the free ride so to speak

Anyways Beta 8 feedback. I like some of the stuff you've done here but the flow of the map breaks down for me when moving in an anti-clockwise direction, particularly when going from RA area to LG to the YA. I uploaded a quick and dirty youtube video here:- p3t7.avi (sorry for the piccy quality). Notice how I slow down to a run when I reach the top of the stairs from the RA area and really have to aim my positioning to get the LG to YA jump going on. (This is standard VQ3 btw). I'm not sure if you can really do much about it at this stage .. but it just doesn't flow like your other maps. Course that's just my opinion.

Also I think I'd rather have the exit to the YA teleporter actually throw me out smack bang on top of the YA facing the way I'm headed in the video. I think it would flow better that way.

There's a lotta health down by that there mega. Maybe take some of it away.

New beta (screenshot feedback).

I like the fact that you are going to re-include the PG but not to the extent of losing the SG...looking at the load layout you created in your post 26th Jul, where you include a second YA and the RL in the RG pit, I'd be inclined to lose the second YA to the SG. Given the size of the map I think the current YA & MH vs RA load out works just fine.

Looking forward to seeing how this one progresses.

Ian
AKA FoRa.

[Dessicated corpse]

How the hell did you add rain? Download link please?

[Hipshot]

How hard could it be, just make some lines and add tcmod scroll to it.

[obsidian]

Or use particles and deformVertexes move. Either way, shaders are required.

[Pat Howard]

Hey.

OK. So I played a few games with a friend. We definitely had fun, especially in the two tele-to-armor areas. It's funny how hard it is to actually hit a guy as he is trying to go for that RA (the funky weapon clipping on the RA platform doesn't help either).

I had one big problem that I need to mention. As we played on it became apparent to me that this map consists almost entirely of close range battles. I wouldn't say it feels cramped, just that there really isn't much line of sight anywhere except by the RG, and you don't really get to camp there too often because of all the other armors in the map.

I think what this map needs is not to be scaled in the traditional sense of the word, but instead only the space between forms needs to be expanded. I feel this way especially in the MH room. There's a big difference between proper scale in terms of path and door sizes and scale in terms of playing spaces. This is something I'm only just starting to become conscious of as I continue to tinker with the scale a layout I'm currently working on.

You don't know it of course, but your project and the one I'm working on over here have been influencing each other in all kinds of strange ways . I initially took interest in your layout because the 1MH, 1RA, 2YA setup was something I wanted in mine, but now they seem to be simultaneously growing into many of the same problems as well. Very interesting indeed .

I have other stuff for you, but it's not as significant as the main point above. Please let me know what you think of this before I go on.
-pat

[sumatra]

Ahh, some healthy feedback on the way.

I must say that I had a silent concern regarding the issues you mentioned all the time in my mind. I think I totally get what you mean.
Until now the creation process was a fight between keeping the map compact and the main items reachable in a specific time AND don't make it feel cramped and too small/boring.

But I think I have a proper approach to improve those problems. I'll have a look at some spots and by expanding those create fighting areas for the competitors to breath. For example I try to expand the area @ RA, @ RL/LG-jumppad and second YA @ RG without heavy losing of the current floorplan.
I also don't want to extend the current LOS, to keep the RG in a proper position, not to overpower it.

Would really like to get some further feedback when you think my approaches could work and what you think of my ideas.

Cheers sum

P.S. Oh and nice to hear that you have also something in the make. Can't wait to see, you just made me ultra-interested with you comparison..

EDIT: Missed your post Ian:

Well, I have to say, the mapflow at RA is intentional, because it's the most heavy item on the map and it should be hazardous enough to make it not too easy to grab. Thanks for the vid though.
On the other hand, this area has slightly changed. I added a ledge on the right wall (when you walk up the stairs) and moved RA there. So you (mostly) need to move through the tele to grab it.

I feel well with the current itemset (RA, 2YA, MH) but you'll see soon when I load up a new Beta. Good to see you back here!

[dichtfux]

I like the flow though it took me some time to grab the MH often enough on the paths I used. The most interesting places to fight are the ones that are more open, my favourite is the SG/MH area. I only played against bots so this is not representative but I only had a single fight in the RA area. There were many fights in corridors, maybe too many. Sometimes I missed a third level and more vertical action.


It's clearly a matter of taste but I think it has way too much armor and stuff. This creates those stupid cpm battles where you pump 3 rockets, some secs of LG and a rail into your enemy and he just flies around like an invulnerable rag doll but never dies. It also makes players run when they're low on health/armor because they know there's always a YA close by.

The player who survives a fight is back to full health and armor in like 3 seconds, gets one or two kills before the other guy can get stuff and it starts over...

EDIT: I played another match in vq3 and it felt way better so forget about most of that armor rant. The fact that the map is rather large also prevents some of the things I mentioned in cpm.

[sumatra]

Hey dichtfux, thanks for the response. It's highly appreciated. The map is planned for vanilla Quake but shoudl also keep balanced in cpm. I think it works atm, but you didn't have the latest beta. Now I realize, that it was no good decision not to keep you guys up-to-date, especially in fact of the new itemset.
Sorry for that. Now I get more feedback than before..

I'll load up a new beta (still much to do, but better itemset and RA area) so you can get an idea of the current state.
There are not the changes implemented that I mentioned in my last post. Hope that makes sense, it's a bit confusing though..

And then KEEP IT COMING!

[monaster]

We are eagerly waiting for your new beta since you posted these awesome pics on 9th of August.