Quake3World

But we have so many neat gadgets that we don't need to leave the house!

I see your point I think though. Media, facts, debates, they all don't do much good when you're removed from your fellow man in a post-modern world that confuses the important things in life?

I personally think we'll all be much better off after the oil crash, once the initial adjustment is made.

As far as rational discourse -- I think you would have a hard time finding a point in history where it actually was a collective value. During the renaissance, enlightenment, any other time period, I believe rational discourse has always been considered a luxury of the affluent. The working class "red-staters" of history (to make a generalization) have usually focused on the simpler things in life. Of course they also had rational discourse about things they were experienced in, but once you start letting a far-away group of strangers make decisions that affect your life, your discourse in that arena is going to become a lot less rational, and based on your limited experiences in your limited world.

Massive Quasars wrote:Has the UK stopped fucking around with NI?

As Foo said, its Sinn Fein's/IRA's turn to stop fucking around with NI.
First they stole the £26 million at christmas, then some IRA members stabbed a guy in a pub, bleached down the place to prevent DNA, took the CCTV of the murder, and warned all the drinkers to keep quiet or theyll be killed. Then they denied it was the IRA, then admitted it, 'suspended' them from the IRA as punishment, then offered to kill them instead of handing them over to the police.
IRA supporters are now realising that the IRA/Sinn Fein are not protectors anymore, just the drug smuggling thugs they were all along for the last 20 years (they were protectors 20+ years ago IMO).
There was a Republic of Ireland byelection today in which Sinn Fein is taking part in. They have lost a lot of support in the south over the last two months, and the results of this would be the first indicator that they have fucked everything up.

fascinating, thanks for the synopsis

It's just been passed as a law, effective immediately.

edit: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4341269.stm