Circumcision will be illegal

[inphlict]

Who cares? At least she doesn't have that meat hanging.

[Transient]

Doesn't a female circumcision prevent from ever having an orgasm?

Not 100% of the time, but more often than not women who are circumsized cannot have an orgasm.

[Guest]

Heh... some fucking idiot doctor that couldn't fuck his wife properly probably figured that one out.

[Transient]

Well if you think about it, the clitoris has the exact same amount of nerve endings as the penis (and incidentally serves no purpose to the body other than sexual pleasure). Lobbing it off is going to dampen most sexual feelings that aren't mentally generated. It's really cruel and horrific in hindsight.

[Strangler]

the clitoris looks like a small dick.

[blood.angel]

As we all start out female in the womb, its more like the dick is a big clitoris.

[feedback]

the clitoris looks like a small dick.

LOL you'll never know for sure :L

[Transient]

As we all start out female in the womb, its more like the dick is a big clitoris.

We don't start out female, we start out undifferentiated. Between 7-8 weeks and 12 weeks, the sex organ takes shape (both being one and the same material during the process).

[[xeno]Julios]

Doesn't a female circumcision prevent from ever having an orgasm?

there are many forms of female circumcision. Male circumcision is significantly more severe than the least harmful form of FGM.

The worst form of FGM, also known as pharaonic circumcision, includes removal of clitoris, the clitoral hood, both the labia minora and majora, and a sewing up of the vaginal opening.

Dr. Taylor, who in 1996 published a study, has suggested that male circumcision is analagous to removal of both labias, in terms of erogenous loss.

Here is his original study, published in the British Journal of Urology:

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/taylor/

an interview with him:

http://www.intact.ca/taylor.html

here is a statement issued recently by the College of Physicians & Surgeons of British Columbia:

Circumcision removes the prepuce that covers and protects the head or the glans of the penis. The prepuce is composed of an outer skin and an inner mucosa that is rich in specialized sensory nerve endings and erogenous tissue. Circumcision is painful, and puts the patient at risk for complications ranging from minor, as in mild local infections, to more serious such as injury to the penis, meatal stenosis, urinary retention, urinary tract infection and, rarely, even haemorrhage leading to death. The benefits of infant male circumcision that have been promoted over time include the prevention of urinary tract infections and sexually transmitted diseases, and the reduction in risk of penile and cervical cancer. Current consensus of medical opinion, including that of the Canadian and American Paediatric Societies and the American Urological Society, is that there is insufficient evidence that these benefits outweigh the potential risks. That is, routine infant male circumcision, i.e. routine removal of normal tissue in a healthy infant, is not recommended.

http://www.canadiancrc.com/circumcision ... rapies.htm


btw, http://www.cirp.org is an excellent resource for information.

[Massive Quasars]

I was cut up as well. Julios is right, imo. It's a cultural practice that was quite unnecessary. I'm not sure if Splish is right about the smegma issue, it seems that may have not been a problem either.

[[xeno]Julios]

[Early 19th century. Via Latin from Greek smēgmal “soap,” from smēkhein “to rub, cleanse.”]

http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_18617 ... megma.html

The smegma issue's funny - women produce smegma also - it's a natural lubricant that has immunological properties. It also smells strong sometimes.

If left for a long period of time, it can build up and cause irritation, and is a likely contributing factor to penile cancer (which is an extraordinarily rare disease of old men).

But you'd need to be really unlucky, AND not clean yourself at all for periods of months, in order to be at risk for penile cancer, imo.

We teach our women to clean their vaginas - we teach everyone to clean their anuses (though I'd like to see more bidet action) - why the fuck do we think we can't teach our kids to clean their penises.

The penile cancer rate in North America is higher than in Denmark, where circumcision rates are below 1% (iirc) - that tells you something.

If you look at the history of medical rationales for circumcision, you see an interesting pattern - the most feared diseases have been associated with an intact penis:

masturbation was a HUGE issue back in the victorian days - the days of chastity belts and the like - north america had some serious sexual hangups, and masturbation was the cancer, or aids, of the time.

Take a look at this, for an example of the common cultural and medical wisdom associated with self gratification:



Doctors actually BELIEVED this shit!

So when circumcision was touted as a cure for masturbation, it caught on like wildfire, especially for the middle and upper class folks.

Then it was urinary tract disease that was the focus - eventually this was shown to be based on extremely flawed scientific methodology.

Then there was the penile cancer/cervical cancer in intact male's partners - again this was shown to be overbown hysteria (I've read that it has been estimated that more people die from complications of circumcision than of penile cancer - though not sure about this claim.)

Now of course it's the HIV - it's amazing to see educated people touting circumcision as a virtual vaccination against HIV - absolute nonsense. It may provide some protection (the latest clinical study showed a 1.5-2 fold increase in protection from circumcision I think) - but that alone does not justify routine neonatal circumcision.

It is a peculiar feature of each society, throughout all ages, that everyone believes that the culture is more rational, civilized, and less barbaric, than in the past. Yet in hindsight, there are always things that people look back upon and go "omg, i can't believe they did that". It takes a lot of effort to think outside the box of one's own culture and time, and experience this shift in consciousness before others do. Usually people who do this are shunned by society - think back to the catholic church burning all those scientists and philosophers for supposing that the earth orbited the sun.

People used to take their families to watch innocent women being publicly tortured to death. It was considered a normative practice. It probably never crossed many people's minds that this was atrocious. Prejudice and superstition around certain behaviours, or physical appearances, along with a blindspot to the horror of human suffering, allowed these practices to survive. We think very differently now, at least with respect to witches.

I think it's a great exercise to examine our own culture, and examine what people 200 years from now might think about us. It can be disconcerting to do this, but I believe it's essential.

[Massive Quasars]

Julios, your post was enlightening.

[Pext]

nice read :icon14:

[Massive Quasars]

Your comments about cultural absurdity in hindsight, reminds me how much religious faith is threatened by scientific realizations. The supernatural soul, for example, will collapse under the weight of it's own superfluousness as we further understand the brain and fundamentally manipulate it.

[Pext]

threatened enlightened

btw - it's funny that the age of enlightenment is the exact age described above. makes you think a bit about some of the ideas they had.

... i think people are just stupid in general; that's it.

[[xeno]Julios]

btw, while it may be traumatic to discover the nature of your loss if you're circumcised, there are a couple of things to take into account.

1) not all circumcisions are equal - some lose more foreskin than others.

2)Foreskin restoration (stretching the skin over a period of months/years) is highly effective at restoring the mechanical functions of the foreskin, which alone brings a lot of sensory enhancement. It also allows the keratinized layer of cells to dissolve, restoring the natural shine of the glans, and possibly increased sensitivity. People have also reported experiencing new sensations after restoration.

3) The brain is remarkably plastic when it comes to adapting. For instance, if you cut a finger off your hand, then the part of the sensory cortex that was originally connected to the nerves coming from that finger rewires in such a way that cortical activity is elicited from the other fingers. It is unclear to me whether this means that stimulation of the other fingers simply becomes more sensitive, or whether it can actually elicit the feeling of what the missing finger would normally feel like. At any rate, some have speculated that the circumcised male's brain has rewired to adapt for this amputation - perhaps stimulation of circumcised males' coronal ridges (the ridge under the glans) provides similar sensations to that which the amputated ridged band would normally elicit.

For more about the anatomy of an intact penis, see here:

http://research.cirp.org/

http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

btw if anyone would like specific information about any aspect of this issue, let me know - i'm superficially familiar with some of the scientific literature, so I can point toward "respectable" sources.

[eepberries]

It's about time. A guy should at least be able to decide whether he wants it done or not rather than have someone else choose for him.

[inphlict]

Julios, your post was enlightening.

I couldn't agree more. :icon14:

[Dr_Watson]

hehe, i was waiting for you to show up juls... the caped crusader fighging for foreskin rights and anal clensing. :icon14:

[LXS]

It'd be great if someone would circumcise strangler's face...

[losCHUNK]

he's to small a prick

[[xeno]Julios]

hehe, i was waiting for you to show up juls... the caped crusader fighging for foreskin rights and anal clensing. :icon14:

:icon19:

[bitWISE]

I wonder if you could argue that circumcision causes pedophilia. If we had our foreskins we wouldn't need to be fucking tight little girls right?

[[xeno]Julios]

I wonder if you could argue that circumcision causes pedophilia. If we had our foreskins we wouldn't need to be fucking tight little girls right?

hehe - on a serious note, studies in north america have shown that people who are circumcised lead a more varied sex life - for example more anal sex.

Pro circers use this info to show that circumcision improves one's sex life.

Anti circers say that these varied sexual behaviours might be a compensatory behavioural response - duller nerves require more stimulation etc.

[bitWISE]

I wonder if you could argue that circumcision causes pedophilia. If we had our foreskins we wouldn't need to be fucking tight little girls right?

hehe - on a serious note, studies in north america have shown that people who are circumcised lead a more varied sex life - for example more anal sex.

Anti circers say that these varied sexual behaviours might be a compensatory behavioural response - duller nerves require more stimulation etc.

I would agree. I have great orgasms but I have to use certain positions (or anal), otherwise I can't even feel anything. Sometimes it pisses me off cuz she will be loving it but to me it feels like I'm humping thick oil. Then again, it does wonders for stamina when you can just hit it like crazy and not get off until you want to.