rgoer wrote:
here, I'll post a question instead of my opinion from the original post: do you guys think that item layouts lending themselves to map control via armor and armor-timing create a friendly environment for players who may be new to the Quake series?
In short. Yes item layouts that create the potential for map control and armour timing do create a friendly environment.
Define friendly environment. Even if I get raped 15-2, if there is depth in the game which creates that situation I am fine with it.
Frag Yard 1v1, Stock Fleet, and most likely Railed which I havent had enough time to really experience, are not fun environments for anyone unless your holding the Rail. While armour timing takes a serious backseat, friendly for newbs I suppose, if your facing anyone near competent with a rail its like I said as near to instagib as your going to get in a baseq4 game.
Scratch friendly and replace it with fun. Even a new player can appreciate when someone locks down a map, and even better watches the low player break that control and come back, this depth can only be achieved if there can be a level of control in the map and not just a random state of affairs where the Rail or a solid rocket will take out the top guy as well as the low guy. Having everyone in a near state of death all the time is not fun, it makes people play slower, camp more, and forces everyone to become rail whores as they wont risk going into tight situations because they can never take any serious damage.
The current state of some of these maps, Frag 1v1, Lost Fleet, and now Railed, are sooo Rail dominated that you may as well pull the other weapons as they are useless against a good railer, which nearly everyone has become because of the hitbox size, 50-60% acc is not rare at all, and I have hit 70% on rose before, mostly due to all the JPs and long lines of sight but still. If everyone can rail and armour is in critical demand, the game slows down as simple as that.
So it really comes down to whether a map which has features leaning toward map control are more newbie friendly then environments that are more rail friendly in the current stock map set, and I and many others would have to say yes, it is much more newbie friendly if there are items that can be timed and controlled. Honestly any map worth playing is going to have
some control elements but will also allow for the low player to come back. YA + Mega for the low player and RA for the control player or vise versa is pretty standard and can be seen in many maps from many different games. The thing is, look at Railed. Its open, has Rail, and one YA. If, god help the poor newbie, a good player gets the Rail and YA its over. The control player in this case will rove between rail and YA, and the low player will just die over and over and over. Stock Lost Fleet and Frag 1v1 are the same. All rail.
Maps cannot be designed for new players anymore imo because the skill level of the established player base is simply to high, if Frag/Fleet/Railed where designed for new players thats fine, but once any kind of proficiency with the easier to hit Rail is gained those maps become broken as the rail dominates the game due to a lack of armour.
Timing is a skill that can be learned really quite quickly, and with the amount of experience the average gamer has, not Quake player just every day gamer, I do not believe companies should be trying to level the playing field by designing maps that cannot be controlled armour wise, especially when it falls apart due to the power of a single hitscan weapon with infinite range.
A friendly environment for someone new, is one where there are items to pick up, and a weapon set that is balanced in such a way that there is always the potential to come back, note
potential not garauntee to come back, a full stacked 200/200 opponent with a RL should steam roll you over and over, but that should be something very difficult to achieve due to item balance on the map once again with YA and Mega being close to eachother and far away from the RA. Its more fun to have some armour, a decent weapon, and get killed with a few shots then it is to have a decent weapon and get railed over and over and over with no chance for a come back because the single armour is owned by the guy with the rail.
Galang vs Frag 1v1/Stock Fleet/Railed, which would you rather play? Which do you think a new player would rather play?
Depth vs Accessability I guess is the question and depth should ALWAYS come first if you want a game to be played for more then 4 months before the new game comes out. People want to progress, see that their time spent playing a game is transfering into a correlation with their skill level and when you remove item control you remove a skill and therefore an aspect of depth which can give a game more longevitity.
I would play Galang for hours on end, I wont even touch Frag 1v1, its juts not fun against skilled or new opposition.
The flip side of all this is a map that is broken the other way, and that map is stock Over the Edge. Both armour, and the Mega are all very close together and can be dominated by the control player all map long, forget the fact that the lg is in there as well as 2 25s, some shards and RL ammo with a line of sight to the RG. That map is to easy to lock down, and lends itself to camping way to much, there is no flow. Obviously a balance has to be reached but making a map that is controlled through the rail is not the solution.
Hopefully that makes sense. Yes item layouts that create the potential for map control and armour timing do create a friendly environment.
NOTE: This is in no way a whine or flame and hope it does not come across as such, this is an attempt at a constructive post. :icon32: I wont even go into weapon balance and starting health in depth...
