Quake3World

They do send shitloads of money back to Mexico. So much so that one city near the Mexican border printed up brochures of how to get across the border and immediately apply for aid. This was done because hojillions of dollars were ending up back in Mexico City's economy, and this other city was missing out.

like i hinted at earlier, these 'economic migrants' are simply obeying the rules of the free market. if there are no jobs or crappy jobs in one place (mexico), then they go somewhere with better jobs (USA). i mean come on - corporations move their investements around the world shopping for the best deal, and the pro-business media call that 'globalisation' (actually it's just one model of globalisation, the neo-liberal model) and the free market at work. when individual people try to follow the same market principles, they get slapped down and subjected to fences, impossible immigration hurdles and a hostile rightwing media, who distract us from the dubious activities of their own paymasters with stories of freeloading and furruners comin' over here takin' aar jawbs 'n womenfolk

jesus christ wakey wakey

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

StormShadow wrote:we need illegal immigrants

politicians are unwilling to do anything about them, as they are vital to our economy (and vital to business owners who make large donations). However, no one will ever have the balls to say this, as it is a very unpopular thing to say, particularly for a republican, so nothing will be done, and the current situation will continue untill something drastic happens.

"need" is a bit much. i don't mind if an illegal brings something to the community then becomes a citizen later, but to come here, work tax-free and not learn a good bit of English is ridiculous.

Most of them DO pay taxes, and many have fake ss cards. Of course they will never get their ss, so the govt keeps the $$. Illegals also pay property tax, sales tax, etc.

Also, it takes upwards of 3-5 years to immigrate legally. Maybe if this was addressed, we wouldnt have such a problem with people hopping the border, and we would know who was in our country.

I don't see that taking a long time for legal immigration as a problem. If people come here legitimatly on work visas, they shouldn't have a problem applying for and receiving citizenship. I work with lots of people that have done it, and several that have been here for more than 5 years just on work visas.
The problem is partially one of enforcement, IIRC, many of the 9/11 hijackers were here on legit visas that expired, but INS didn't have the manpower to track them down.

StormShadow wrote:

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:

StormShadow wrote:we need illegal immigrants

politicians are unwilling to do anything about them, as they are vital to our economy (and vital to business owners who make large donations). However, no one will ever have the balls to say this, as it is a very unpopular thing to say, particularly for a republican, so nothing will be done, and the current situation will continue untill something drastic happens.

"need" is a bit much. i don't mind if an illegal brings something to the community then becomes a citizen later, but to come here, work tax-free and not learn a good bit of English is ridiculous.

Most of them DO pay taxes, and many have fake ss cards. Of course they will never get their ss, so the govt keeps the $$. Illegals also pay property tax, sales tax, etc.

most? maybe in your neck of the woods. i don't recall where you live, but my state's neighbor is Mexico, and i'm pretty positive that i read that most illegals do not fed or state taxes.

property tax and sales tax? sure, that's fine and dandy, but what about all the other taxes that I pay for as an American citizen. they should be paying the same.

I'm not sure about any of them working in agriculture, but if they're working on the books, they're paying taxes. There's also sales taxes, what others are you referring to?

fed and state is what i was referring to.

glossy wrote:

bitWISE wrote:

glossy wrote:They should make sure all the contruction workers are mexican, and pay them all $2/day, then bask in their own irony.

Ever seen mexican roofers? Those dudes are fucking amazing...

We don't have mexicans in Australia! Our version of border-jumpers are the Japanese (who's main purpose is to study hard and become dodgy doctors, accountants, calculator engineers or micromechabiologists).

Why would they need to move to Australia to do that? They already live in Japan :icon27:

too late, all of mexico has already invaded where i live
i can even close my eyes without seeing some spansih speaking noob

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:fed and state is what i was referring to.

As taxes are taken out of your paycheck, most DO pay these taxes. Im sure many are employed and payed under the table in cash (probably well below minimum wage), but I dont think this makes up the majority.

Also, keep in mind how poor these people are, and how few rights they have compared to the amount of taxes they pay. Illegals have been compared to slaves, as employers can pay them virtually nothing, treat them like shit, and if they bitch about it, have them deported.

Nightshade wrote:I don't see that taking a long time for legal immigration as a problem. If people come here legitimatly on work visas, they shouldn't have a problem applying for and receiving citizenship.

So if you had no job, and no prospects, you could wait 3-5 years to maybe be granted citizenship? And then upon getting it, get treated(and payed) like an illegal anyway? Why not just hop the border now and get the same job?

your only gunna moan about something else when it stops happening

like us now, with call centres abroad

bloody foreigners, staying over there taking our jobs

StormShadow wrote: So if you had no job, and no prospects, you could wait 3-5 years to maybe be granted citizenship? And then upon getting it, get treated(and payed) like an illegal anyway? Why not just hop the border now and get the same job?

What the hell are you talking about? You seem to think that all immigrants only come here to get menial jobs? What the hell kind of racist shit is that?

Émigré labor drives the Iowa economy these days (which means you all get to eat). Let them come, I don't care. One Mexican works harder than any 10 people here

Nightshade wrote:I absolutely fucking despise immigrants refusing to learn the language after living here for years, however.

Why, out of curiosity? Is the English-Spanish divide a communication barrier, source of "American Identity" just an indicator that they are willing to be Americans or some other reason?

One thing I've noticed about Americans is that we generally don't care what other people do, unlike other places I've noticed lately. We have our marginal minorities in society like every other republic, but since the MLK days, we seem to be getting less focused color. Must be that society feels more threatened by gays than by black guys with big dongs

StormShadow wrote:

+JuggerNaut+ wrote:fed and state is what i was referring to.

As taxes are taken out of your paycheck, most DO pay these taxes. Im sure many are employed and payed under the table in cash (probably well below minimum wage), but I dont think this makes up the majority.

Also, keep in mind how poor these people are, and how few rights they have compared to the amount of taxes they pay. Illegals have been compared to slaves, as employers can pay them virtually nothing, treat them like shit, and if they bitch about it, have them deported.

sorry, but illegals do not pay taxes when they've not been handed a W4, and i would guess that most don't get to fill out that piece of paper the rest of us do. they also get away with free health and benefits that I have to pay for. it was estimated in 2001 that it cost Arizona hospitals a minimum of $31 million dollars to treat illegals. since healthcare providers cannot ask the residency status of a patient, the number is just an estimate, but is quoted to be a bare minimum estimate. source
The center for Immigration Studies said that welfare payments, which include foodstamps, totalled $4.5 million in 2001.

that is a lot of money - which of course doesn't include California, New Mexico, or Texas.

Dave wrote:

Nightshade wrote:I absolutely fucking despise immigrants refusing to learn the language after living here for years, however.

Why, out of curiosity? Is the English-Spanish divide a communication barrier, source of "American Identity" just an indicator that they are willing to be Americans or some other reason?

One thing I've noticed about Americans is that we generally don't care what other people do, unlike other places I've noticed lately. We have our marginal minorities in society like every other republic, but since the MLK days, we seem to be getting less focused color. Must be that society feels more threatened by gays than by black guys with big dongs

i treat it as just a communication barrier. nothing less, nothing more. it is a PLUS to know Spanish in most employer's eyes in Arizona. why should i have to learn another language just because immigrants don't want to learn English?

what? i have to press a "1" or equivalent everytime i use an automated service via the phone or ATM? what the hell for? i shouldn't have to go through extra steps because someone doesn't want to learn English. for this i don't fully blame immigrants since it is the businesses final decision, but it's ludicrous either way you slice it.

life is rough

HM-PuFFNSTuFF wrote:life is rough

scathing.

Nightshade wrote:

StormShadow wrote: So if you had no job, and no prospects, you could wait 3-5 years to maybe be granted citizenship? And then upon getting it, get treated(and payed) like an illegal anyway? Why not just hop the border now and get the same job?

What the hell are you talking about? You seem to think that all immigrants only come here to get menial jobs? What the hell kind of racist shit is that?

No, im sure they are planning to go to medical school.

Most people with an education and prospects immigrate the legal way, and do not hop the border, for if they had educations, jobs, etc, they wouldnt need to sneak illegally into a country. The people who hop the border are people who have shitty lives which they think can be improved by coming to America. They come here to work jobs that they can do with little or no education, and that they can get away with.

Not sure where you get racist from..

sorry, but illegals do not pay taxes when they've not been handed a W4

So money that is deducted from their paychecks doesnt go towards taxes?

This might interest you:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0321/p02s01-ussc.html

Your right, the amount of taxes they pay do not make up for the amount of money they cost the country, but the same can be said about alot of legal residents.

StormShadow wrote:

Nightshade wrote:

StormShadow wrote: So if you had no job, and no prospects, you could wait 3-5 years to maybe be granted citizenship? And then upon getting it, get treated(and payed) like an illegal anyway? Why not just hop the border now and get the same job?

What the hell are you talking about? You seem to think that all immigrants only come here to get menial jobs? What the hell kind of racist shit is that?

No, im sure they are planning to go to medical school.

Most people with an education and prospects immigrate the legal way, and do not hop the border, for if they had educations, jobs, etc, they wouldnt need to sneak illegally into a country. The people who hop the border are people who have shitty lives which they think can be improved by coming to America. They come here to work jobs that they can do with little or no education, and that they can get away with.

Not sure where you get racist from..

sorry, but illegals do not pay taxes when they've not been handed a W4

So money that is deducted from their paychecks doesnt go towards taxes?

This might interest you:
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0321/p02s01-ussc.html

Your right, the amount of taxes they pay do not make up for the amount of money they cost the country, but the same can be said about alot of legal residents.

i said the ones that have NOT been handed a W4, whom are being paid under the table.

that link is interesting, and a good idea, although now the article is over 3 years old and i've yet to hear about anything like that here in Arizona. i just took a look and couldn't find anything. :\

sort of related, i did see this though:

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=55357

but on the fence whether to like or hate it.

Dave wrote:

Nightshade wrote:I absolutely fucking despise immigrants refusing to learn the language after living here for years, however.

Why, out of curiosity? Is the English-Spanish divide a communication barrier, source of "American Identity" just an indicator that they are willing to be Americans or some other reason?

One thing I've noticed about Americans is that we generally don't care what other people do, unlike other places I've noticed lately. We have our marginal minorities in society like every other republic, but since the MLK days, we seem to be getting less focused color. Must be that society feels more threatened by gays than by black guys with big dongs

As I've said before. assimilate, don't polarize. If you want to become truly integrated, learn to speak the language. Failing to do so and therefore remaining surrounded by other immigrants simply creates isolated pockets of humanity.

StormShadow wrote:
No, im sure they are planning to go to medical school.

Most people with an education and prospects immigrate the legal way, and do not hop the border, for if they had educations, jobs, etc, they wouldnt need to sneak illegally into a country. The people who hop the border are people who have shitty lives which they think can be improved by coming to America. They come here to work jobs that they can do with little or no education, and that they can get away with.

Not sure where you get racist from..

So the American taxpayer is supposed to subsidize refugees from shitty countries? I don't think so. "Hey, your country sucks and you won't get an education, so come to the US and we'll hand you everything."

Fuck that. And I got a racist implication from your post because the way you responded to my post implied that all immigrants came here seeking menial labor, hence the desire to not wait for legal immigration.

eepberries wrote:

glossy wrote:

bitWISE wrote: Ever seen mexican roofers? Those dudes are fucking amazing...

We don't have mexicans in Australia! Our version of border-jumpers are the Japanese (who's main purpose is to study hard and become dodgy doctors, accountants, calculator engineers or micromechabiologists).

Why would they need to move to Australia to do that? They already live in Japan :icon27:

I don't even know! I suppose they want to have more than one kid, or see the stars or something. Maybe they want to take up surfing?

U.S. studying wall along Canadian border
Dec. 17, 2005. 07:46 PM

WASHINGTON (CP) — Canada has no interest in a new U.S. initiative to study building a security wall along the border, officials said Saturday.

And a cross-border business group said it makes no sense when what's urgently required are measures to speed the flow of trade.

The study "on the use of physical barriers" was slipped into an amendment to a bill on border security and illegal immigration passed Friday by the U.S. House of Representatives.

The amendment, sponsored by California Republican Duncan Hunter, also approved building security fences with lights and cameras along more than 1,000 kilometres of the U.S.-Mexico border in four states to keep out illegal aliens and drugs.

The move comes amid heightened bilateral tensions arising from Canada's election campaign. But U.S. sources said it was prompted by southern U.S. politicians anxious to assure constituents they're not penalizing one border over another.

Alex Swann, spokesman for Canada's Public Safety Minister Anne McLellan, said the U.S. administration has never discussed the notion with Canada during regular meetings on border security.

"This is not a priority for us," said Swann.

"There's all sorts of things we want to do. This just isn't one of them," Swann added.

He insisted such a barrier would be impractical.

"Just look at the Great Lakes."

Scotty Greenwood, executive director of the Canadian-American Business Council, said the study is a waste.

"It's an indication of a lack of understanding about what the true challenges are on the northern border," she said.

"Just the fact that it would quietly pass is scary. They'll study it and it isn't going to be controversial."

"That's the tragedy. They shouldn't be spending limited resources doing that."

Legislators should be focused instead on improving key border crossings like Windsor-Detroit, the world's busiest, and expanding programs that expedite the flow of people and goods like NEXUS and FAST, Greenwood said.

"Security, sure. But it should be smart security."

"One size does not fit all."

The entire border security bill, which includes other measures to tighten the southern border and stop illegal aliens from finding jobs, passed by a vote of 239-182.

Conservatives have long wanted to build a barrier along the Mexican border. Although some Democrats compared it with the Berlin Wall in Germany, 50 party members supported the amendment to erect fences and direct the Department of Homeland Security to study doing the same on the Canadian border.

"You typically have these diplomatic-type protests that speak stupidly of the Great Wall in Canada or some other nutty comparison," Hunter told the National Conservative Weekly, noting there's already a 23-kilometre stretch of fence in San Diego.

"We're simply talking of having a real border and asking people when they want to come to the United States that they come in the front door."

Canada has long fought the perception it's a haven for terrorists, combatting the mistaken belief some of those involved in the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks entered the United States from the north.

There have also been complaints from some U.S. legislators that Canadian immigration policies are too lax, although there are an estimated 50,000 to 120,000 people in Canada without legal status, compared with more than eight million in the United States.

In 2004, the U.S. Border Patrol made over one million apprehensions on the southwestern border, compared with 10,000 at the Canadian line.

After the attacks, both countries took steps to increase security along what's been known as the longest undefended border in the world. About 300,000 people and $1.2 billion U.S. in goods and services cross daily.

The so-called smart border accord sought to strike a balance between security and trade by creating joint policing and sharing more information.

In its last budget, Canada increased funding for its border security agency by $430 million over five years.

U.S. officials are now considering a plan that would a require passports or other secure document of anyone crossing the border. Canada and tourism and business groups in both countries oppose the passport plan, saying it's too expensive and would seriously hinder commerce and casual visits.

The passport issue, container security and the Windsor crossing are among Canada's priorities, said Swann.

Nightshade wrote:
So the American taxpayer is supposed to subsidize refugees from shitty countries? I don't think so. "Hey, your country sucks and you won't get an education, so come to the US and we'll hand you everything."

No. That isnt my attitude, nor is it our our attitude as a country. That is, however, what happens. Poor bastards jump the border and get shitty jobs. Im not condoning it, or suggesting that its acceptable.

Nightshade wrote:Fuck that. And I got a racist implication from your post because the way you responded to my post implied that all immigrants came here seeking menial labor, hence the desire to not wait for legal immigration.

I said that ILLEGAL immigrants for the most part come here and get menial jobs. I defy you to find statistics that prove otherwise.

There are many immigrants who come to America the right way - they learn the language, learn about the culture, and come here for the benefits of our educational system and the opportunities our country provides. People who hop the border illegally are not them.