Quake3World

Seriously, the NHS is excellent. It's easy to criticise them because it's publicly funded and we always think that things could be better but give me this system over a private health care, any day.

Fair enough, I must be equating the NHS with our healthcare system here in Canada. Which is poor all things considered.

[xeno]Julios wrote:yea hard to tell for sure as they don't elaborate on the standards they used to check. That said, it seems they did double checked their original samples.

Anyway, seems the fucker isn't coming back for more tests:

The tests were re-checked by the Chelsea and Westminster Healthcare NHS Trust when Stimpson threatened litigation believing there must be a mistake, but the results confirmed all the tests had been accurate.

In a letter understood to be from the NHS Litigation Authority in October this year, Stimpson was told: “The fact you have recovered from a positive antibody result to a negative result is exceptional and medically remarkable.”

The trust said there had been several other cases of claimed “spontaneous clearance” of the virus worldwide, although it is not believed any have been proved. A spokeswoman added that the trust had urged Stimpson to return for tests, but that so far he had not done so.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 40,00.html

maybe he's still thinking about it or something. or for whatever reason he is being slightly delayed.

either way he said: "He has told the papers he would do anything he could to help find a cure." so my guess is he is doing or planning on doing something to help out. i dont understand why people are chastising him? unless i misread the article or something....?

[xeno]Julios wrote:If we are to be consistent with our moral justifications for vivisection, and it turns out that this dude really did overcome HIV, then it's not hard to make the case for forcing him to undergo whatever tests necessary, perhaps even if it means killing him in the process.

Seriously, wtf are you on about. The british anti-vivisectionists are completely out there minds. It doesn't follow that because vivisection is done on animals who don't qualify for personhood, that it would be justified to do the same to human persons. The british are cognizant of this and have banned research on chimps, one of the few species that may qualify for personhood.

Massive Quasars wrote:

[xeno]Julios wrote:If we are to be consistent with our moral justifications for vivisection, and it turns out that this dude really did overcome HIV, then it's not hard to make the case for forcing him to undergo whatever tests necessary, perhaps even if it means killing him in the process.

Seriously, wtf are you on about. The british anti-vivisectionists are completely out there minds. It doesn't follow that because vivisection is done on animals who don't qualify for personhood, that it would be justified to do the same to human persons. The british are cognizant of this and have banned research on chimps, one of the few species that may qualify for personhood.

i think maybe i was misunderstood here.

I don't know much about anti-vivisectionists - i'm just thinking about this issue from a philosophical point of view.

One of the major moral justifications for harming animals in research is because of the overwhelming benefits that the research yields us.

The reason we don't use humans as subjects is because we value human life more than animal life - we want to minimize the costs and maximize the benefits.

Now in a case where a single human being may hold the key to curing one of the worst pathogenic threats to human health in human history, I think it would be plausible to argue that this going against this human's will may be a cost worth the benefits his body yields.

Note: I'm not saying this is right - i'm talking about being morallly consistent here.

and btw the standards for personhood are bigoted and arbitrary according to some schools of thought. You may have heard of the initiative that actually has started cataloguing many gorillas around the world, giving them names and considering them persons.

[xeno]Julios wrote: i think maybe i was misunderstood here.

I don't know much about anti-vivisectionists - i'm just thinking about this issue from a philosophical point of view.

One of the major moral justifications for harming animals in research is because of the overwhelming benefits that the research yields us.

The reason we don't use humans as subjects is because we value human life more than animal life - we want to minimize the costs and maximize the benefits.

Now in a case where a single human being may hold the key to curing one of the worst pathogenic threats to human health in human history, I think it would be plausible to argue that this going against this human's will may a cost worth the benefits his body yields.

Note: I'm not saying this is right - i'm talking about being morallly consistent here.

Thank you for clarifying which argument you were relying upon, strictly speaking that would be morally consistent

and btw the standards for personhood are bigoted and arbitrary according to some schools of thought. You may have heard of the initiative that actually has started cataloguing many gorillas, giving them names and considering them persons.

Yes, I yeild to your criticism here. Personhood is hardly an objective measure as some have defined it. Though I still tend to believe chimps and a few other species have special status above and beyond lower animals.

[xeno]Julios wrote:

The reason we don't use humans as subjects is because we value human life more than animal life - we want to minimize the costs and maximize the benefits.

Now in a case where a single human being may hold the key to curing one of the worst pathogenic threats to human health in human history, I think it would be plausible to argue that this going against this human's will may a cost worth the benefits his body yields.

Sure it's plausible IF YOU ARE A UTILITARIAN WHORE!!!

fucking queer should be shot

Pauly wrote:Seriously, the NHS is excellent. It's easy to criticise them because it's publicly funded and we always think that things could be better but give me this system over a private health care, any day.

dude, my old mans up the gwent now

he was one a waiting list for his operation for 2+ yrs, when he finally got there he had a doc which had already peformed 4 operations in the morning... he woke up and the doc was nowhere to be seen and the nurse never knew what painkillers to give him, wether he could drink or eat and this went on for about 4 hrs (bear in mind that he wasnt on a drip so he was becoming really fucking thirsty)

there was blood scralled all over the waiting room walls, the lifts had puke in them, the beds had blankets from the 80's, plug sockets hanging off the walls, the beds had a layer of dust as thick as an inch under them and this is just all the shit i can think of off the top of my head

now he got re admitted on sat night because the pain in his back (he had a back op) was getting worse, he went back up there and had tests done, his blood pressure is through the roof, increased heart rate and somming to do with his white blood cell count

so i went to visit again....the beds had swobs filled with blood under them, the 1 bed had like a garlic dip container which had tipped over and looked like its been left for a long time because it looked stiff as a board

after being there for 9 hrs he still had no painkillers because they didnt have enough to go round, one of the nice nurses gave him gas and air only to have it taken off him 10 mins later for some slut next door, they had no pillows they wouldnt even put electricity on to the book lamps, there as 6 yellow bags with 'biohazard' written on them stacked in the wards corner

and now..... the doc has told him that he cant do nothing till he gets an X ray, so hes on a 3 day waiting list just to get an X ray

oh, and TV on a 3 inch screen cots 5 quid a day

and ambulance respond times have been increased to 20 mins and theyre still missing the targets

and they wonder why the hospital bug is killing so many people (inlucding my nan)

losCHUNK wrote:

Pauly wrote:Seriously, the NHS is excellent. It's easy to criticise them because it's publicly funded and we always think that things could be better but give me this system over a private health care, any day.

dude, my old mans up the gwent now

he was one a waiting list for his operation for 2+ yrs, when he finally got there he had a doc which had already peformed 4 operations in the morning... he woke up and the doc was nowhere to be seen and the nurse never knew what painkillers to give him, wether he could drink or eat and this went on for about 4 hrs (bear in mind that he wasnt on a drip so he was becoming really fucking thirsty)

there was blood scralled all over the waiting room walls, the lifts had puke in them, the beds had blankets from the 80's, plug sockets hanging off the walls, the beds had a layer of dust as thick as an inch under them and this is just all the shit i can think of off the top of my head

now he got re admitted on sat night because the pain in his back (he had a back op) was getting worse, he went back up there and had tests done, his blood pressure is through the roof, increased heart rate and somming to do with his white blood cell count

so i went to visit again....the beds had swobs filled with blood under them, the 1 bed had like a garlic dip container which had tipped over and looked like its been left for a long time because it looked stiff as a board

after being there for 9 hrs he still had no painkillers because they didnt have enough to go round, one of the nice nurses gave him gas and air only to have it taken off him 10 mins later for some slut next door, they had no pillows they wouldnt even put electricity on to the book lamps, there as 6 yellow bags with 'biohazard' written on them stacked in the wards corner

and now..... the doc has told him that he cant do nothing till he gets an X ray, so hes on a 3 day waiting list just to get an X ray

oh, and TV on a 3 inch screen cots 5 quid a day

and ambulance respond times have been increased to 20 mins and theyre still missing the targets

and they wonder why the hospital bug is killing so many people (inlucding my nan)

That would have cost you about £3k in the states.

how much is it costing us in taxes ?

which they use to install and un-install bus lanes whenever they feel like it

Pauly wrote:

losCHUNK wrote:

Pauly wrote:Seriously, the NHS is excellent. It's easy to criticise them because it's publicly funded and we always think that things could be better but give me this system over a private health care, any day.

dude, my old mans up the gwent now...

That would have cost you about £3k in the states.

lol...much more than that man.

Cost to the taxpayer of a hospital bed for one day is about 350 quid - and that's just on the ward, and before you get to see a doctor and have any treatment.

It sounds like your local hospital's a bit of a shithole though, chunk - although generally speaking, the reason for blood and vomit all over the public areas in hospital is that the general populace are a bunch of dirty chav cunts who think it's their right to mess public places up.

The problem with cutting waiting times is, every time you allocate more resources to an area, you get another bunch of utter timewasters come in and clog up the system. If you saw the number of arseholes who call 999 for a cold or a hangnail "because it's their right", you wouldn't be knocking the ambulance crews.

Geebs wrote:Cost to the taxpayer of a hospital bed for one day is about 350 quid - and that's just on the ward, and before you get to see a doctor and have any treatment.

It sounds like your local hospital's a bit of a shithole though, chunk - although generally speaking, the reason for blood and vomit all over the public areas in hospital is that the general populace are a bunch of dirty chav cunts who think it's their right to mess public places up.

The problem with cutting waiting times is, every time you allocate more resources to an area, you get another bunch of utter timewasters come in and clog up the system. If you saw the number of arseholes who call 999 for a cold or a hangnail "because it's their right", you wouldn't be knocking the ambulance crews.

nah man i can completely understand that which is why i aint taking my frustration on the doctor, because he is a good doctor and it aint his fault that hes so busy... i just threw a few more faults of the NHS in

an i aint bitching so much at waiting lists either because if your not willing to wait then go private... the way i seen it if they cut waiting times then they would be cutting funds for other areas (like upkeep or ambulances)

the hospital is a shithole though, its the 2nd largest hospital in wales and a main hospital for a lot of south wales

my nan died of MRSA (it is that right?) and i find it completely disgusting to see such a shithole in a medical place... and this blood i was on about was there for atleast 2 days along with a load of other stuff.... the heap has already had 2 warnings about its condition... then when they said theyre gunna make a new hospital they scrap the idea for a school and houses..

and painkillers aswell, someone has a back operation you expect them to have pain relief

i can completely understand waiting times, ambulance times etc but what i cant understand is how a place could be a shithole, i keep my room cleaner than it and im a messy bastard

didn't magic johnson test negative after his treatment?

Aren't there some people in Africa who have proven to be immune to HIV? I saw something about it on BBC or something other. All about genetics, and their bodies are able to repel and defeat the virus.

Can't remember much else.. anyone hear of this?

Wizard .3 wrote:Aren't there some people in Africa who have proven to be immune to HIV? I saw something about it on BBC or something other. All about genetics, and their bodies are able to repel and defeat the virus.

Can't remember much else.. anyone hear of this?

Actually it is a certain segment of white europeans. I think they found that these people are descendant of people that got the black plague and survived. Something is different about their T4 cells.

I think Pauly never had major surgery and is full of crap. I bet he would be screaming "GET ME OUT OF HERE" if he needed to have surgery at ur hospital.

NHS is one another kind of crap. Note that the price of private medical is also crap. Also private medical prolly sucks if you are in the lower-income bracket. If you are not in the poor zone, you can and should have second opinions on serious treatments.

Mebbe its best to have a relative who is a doctor

losCHUNK wrote:

Geebs wrote:Cost to the taxpayer of a hospital bed for one day is about 350 quid - and that's just on the ward, and before you get to see a doctor and have any treatment.

It sounds like your local hospital's a bit of a shithole though, chunk - although generally speaking, the reason for blood and vomit all over the public areas in hospital is that the general populace are a bunch of dirty chav cunts who think it's their right to mess public places up.

The problem with cutting waiting times is, every time you allocate more resources to an area, you get another bunch of utter timewasters come in and clog up the system. If you saw the number of arseholes who call 999 for a cold or a hangnail "because it's their right", you wouldn't be knocking the ambulance crews.

nah man i can completely understand that which is why i aint taking my frustration on the doctor, because he is a good doctor and it aint his fault that hes so busy... i just threw a few more faults of the NHS in

an i aint bitching so much at waiting lists either because if your not willing to wait then go private... the way i seen it if they cut waiting times then they would be cutting funds for other areas (like upkeep or ambulances)

the hospital is a shithole though, its the 2nd largest hospital in wales and a main hospital for a lot of south wales

my nan died of MRSA (it is that right?) and i find it completely disgusting to see such a shithole in a medical place... and this blood i was on about was there for atleast 2 days along with a load of other stuff.... the heap has already had 2 warnings about its condition... then when they said theyre gunna make a new hospital they scrap the idea for a school and houses..

and painkillers aswell, someone has a back operation you expect them to have pain relief

i can completely understand waiting times, ambulance times etc but what i cant understand is how a place could be a shithole, i keep my room cleaner than it and im a messy bastard

typical tight scotsman :icon33:

hax103 wrote:NHS is one another kind of crap. Note that the price of private medical is also crap. Also private medical prolly sucks if you are in the lower-income bracket. If you are not in the poor zone, you can and should have second opinions on serious treatments.

Yeah, the amount of money you make should determine the quality of treatment you get, that's ethical, nice one.

On the other hand, given that it takes about 20 years to train someone to consultant grade (getting paid peanuts for the entire time), the cost of private medical procedures is often pretty reasonable. Have you called out a plumber recently?

By ethical, I assume you mean "right." In the real world, the people with the nonexistent incomes will on average have

- worse shelter (homes)
- worse education
- worse medical care
- worse food

I never said it was "right." In an ideal world, everyone should have their dream home, education, and medical care. However, the reality is more like:

now quoting losCHUNK: "after being there for 9 hrs he still had no painkillers because they didnt have enough to go round, one of the nice nurses gave him gas and air only to have it taken off him 10 mins later for some slut next door, they had no pillows they wouldnt even put electricity on to the book lamps, there as 6 yellow bags with 'biohazard' written on them stacked in the wards corner "

and if someone were a millionaire, I suspect they would not have to put up with such conditions.

Geebs wrote:Yeah, the amount of money you make should determine the quality of treatment you get, that's ethical, nice one.

On the other hand, given that it takes about 20 years to train someone to consultant grade (getting paid peanuts for the entire time), the cost of private medical procedures is often pretty reasonable. Have you called out a plumber recently?

You never said it was right, you said "should", you silly bastard.

hax103 wrote:If you are not in the poor zone, you can and should have second opinions on serious treatments.