umm, musicians...

[[xeno]Julios]

What he's referring to as a 12th note is basically an 8th note with a dot behind it. People are confusing 1/12th of a measure with 12th notes

yea exactly - been ages since i studied up on semiquavers (16th notes?) etc.

when i talk about a 12th of the bar, i'm talking about a 12th of a bar - i'm not referring to that note as a "12th beat" per se - but rather a 12th of the bar.

Found it useful to talk in those terms since anyone who hasn't studied music would be able to get on the same page.


the overarching 4 beat framework would correspond to the main notes of the guitar - the actual beats of the main melody can be auditorially conceptualized as being divided into groups of 4 or 2.

(each of those beats of the main melody has a subdivision of three percussive beats)

[DRuM]

Amazing people here still think there's such a thing as a 1/12 beat or 1/12 note, lol

[mrd]

yes it really is quite amazing noseboy. get over it.

[Eraser]

Isn't that just a dotted 8th?

It's the closest you can get to "1/12th of a bar" as julios calls it (in a 4/4 time signature)

[Geebs]

Amazing people here still think there's such a thing as a 1/12 beat or 1/12 note, lol

Ever read through the score to "Alien Water Kiss" by Steve Vai?

BTW thanks for the longer clip, eraser; the first one was so short it was pretty hard to pick up the general 6/8-ness.

[[xeno]Julios]

Amazing people here still think there's such a thing as a 1/12 beat or 1/12 note, lol

Drum - go back and read my last two posts carefully.

[Eraser]

Ever read through the score to "Alien Water Kiss" by Steve Vai?

There's a score of that?! :icon28:

BTW thanks for the longer clip, eraser; the first one was so short it was pretty hard to pick up the general 6/8-ness.

I hope I won't get the RIAA on my ass

[Geebs]

Ever read through the score to "Alien Water Kiss" by Steve Vai?

There's a score of that?! :icon28:

It's...... different.

(I'll admit, though, the only Vai stuff I ever got round to learning was Sisters and FTLOG - with most of the rest of the stuff on P&W you get so far through the piece and suddenly find you need another string.)

[sliver]

Amazing people here still think there's such a thing as a 1/12 beat or 1/12 note, lol

Drum - go back and read my last two posts carefully.

the bottom line is it's still completely incorrect to talk about 12/12 timing. As Drum said, only powers of two are permissible denominators.

[[xeno]Julios]

the bottom line is it's still completely incorrect to talk about 12/12 timing. As Drum said, only powers of two are permissible denominators.

I said in the beginning of my post that i am ignoring theoretical conventions.

This perhaps requires thinking outside the box.

Imagine being an alien listening to music, who has never studied music theory.

There is no reason that alien wouldn't be able to subdivide the acoustic signal into groups of 12.

There is a repeating pattern of 6 or 12, depending on how large your group-unit is.

very frustrating when people can't open their minds and just read carefully :icon23:

[DRuM]

yes it really is quite amazing noseboy. get over it.

I have nothing to get over. I'm right, you're wrong. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, you're fucking wrong.

[l0g1c]

Drum is right.

12th note, lol

[[xeno]Julios]

Drum is right.

12th note, lol

No - not a 12th note, but a 12th of a bar.

A temporal slice of the bar which is one 12th the size of the entire bar.

A mathematical division along distinct acoustic properties.

Not a 12th note as in a 8th or 16th note.

Get it?

[[xeno]Julios]

Here - a demonstration that sometimes, people don't read carefully:

Btw, there is no such thing as a 12th note.

What he's referring to as a 12th note is basically an 8th note with a dot behind it. People are confusing 1/12th of a measure with 12th notes

yea exactly - been ages since i studied up on semiquavers (16th notes?) etc.

when i talk about a 12th of the bar, i'm talking about a 12th of a bar - i'm not referring to that note as a "12th beat" per se - but rather a 12th of the bar.

Found it useful to talk in those terms since anyone who hasn't studied music would be able to get on the same page.

Now, Drum replies, showing that he's completely failed to comprehend what the last few posts have been saying:

Amazing people here still think there's such a thing as a 1/12 beat or 1/12 note, lol

and to top it off:

Drum is right.

12th note, lol

[l0g1c]

Drum is right.

12th note, lol

No - not a 12th note, but a 12th of a bar.

A temporal slice of the bar which is one 12th the size of the entire bar.

A mathematical division along distinct acoustic properties.

Not a 12th note as in a 8th or 16th note.

Get it?

Yes, I understand your explanation. However, the original question posed was something along the lines of "what is this dude playing?"

The answer, when expressed in the most common musical notation is "6/8 time with a bar of 4/8 thrown in."

[[xeno]Julios]

right - but the fact is, drum completely failed to appreciate the distinction that was being made, and continued to express, in a haughtily dismissal fashion, the dialogue as incorrect and laughable.

The explanation I gave was technically correct, and was geared to help people understand the rhythmic sleight of hand that took place.

I explained it on mathematical terms, and even clarified a few posts down that it was not an explanation that was articulated within the conventional music-theory framework.

This explanation, while not translated into the convention and terminology of proper music theory, could still serve some use - it was clear that the originator of the thread was in the dark as to the "trick":

but maybe that's only because Mike Portnoy (the drummer) does something weird and it's actually all very neat in the end, it just confuses the hell out of me.

My post was an attempt to reduce this confusion.

[DRuM]

Hey julios, apologies for seemingly laughing at your explanation. But with all due respect, you didn't read my earlier post either, and I quote:

While there are twelve 1/8th notes in 12/8, or six 1/8th notes in 6/8, you can say each note in 12/8 is a 1/12th of the notes. In 6/8 each note is a 1/6th of the notes, but that doesn't mean they're 1/6th notes or 1/12th notes.

As you can see, what I'd said is the same as you:

"A temporal slice of the bar which is one 12th the size of the entire bar. "


one 12th the size of the entire bar is the same as 1/12th ( one 12th) of the notes. Same thing. But eraser wanted to know how to notate it. I already did that too. And I ask myself, WHY DID I BOTHER!

[DRuM]

indeed!

[Ryoki]

music nerds

[[xeno]Julios]

As you can see, what I'd said is the same as you:

...

one 12th the size of the entire bar is the same as 1/12th ( one 12th) of the notes. Same thing. But eraser wanted to know how to notate it. I already did that too. And I ask myself, WHY DID I BOTHER!

right - and your input was no doubt valuable as it expressed it in the proper language of music theory.

But it's just that you kept on prancing around saying shit like "I can't believe that ppl think there are 1/12th notes" even when that clarification had been made.

Didn't personally insult me, as other people had made the distinction too, but it was just a tad bewildering

[DRuM]

Julios, my comment was not directed at you or anyone else except mrd. When I said 'people' I actually meant mrd and should have just said so at the time. Here is the sequence that led to my comment because he was so confidently insistent he knew what he was talking about where in fact, he didn't.

Btw, there is no such thing as a 12th note.

There isn't? What about an 8th note triplet?

It's not confusing. I know all that shit. One 8th note that is within a triplet, but singled out, is a 12th note.

@drum: i know it's incorrect to CALL it a 12th note, but rhythmically speaking, its a 12th note.

Amazing people here still think there's such a thing as a 1/12 beat or 1/12 note, lol

[[xeno]Julios]

aright fair enough - misunderstanding - but i think mrd meant 12th note in the same way i did - perhaps "mathematically speaking" instead of "rhythmically speaking" woulda been more appropriate.

[DRuM]

Well maybe in his later quote but apparently not in this one.

It's not confusing. I know all that shit. One 8th note that is within a triplet, but singled out, is a 12th note.

But anyway, whatever :lub:

[Canis]

boom chicka boom chicka chicka boom...bom...boom chicka boom boom chicka tap boom, boom chicka boom boom chicka t-tap boom!

Now THAT's rhythm, biotch!

[l0g1c]

I retract my previous post. Canis is most certainly correct in this matter. :icon14: