Quake3World

Poor Sweden

Eraser wrote:"Just". It's the president of the United States of America we're talking about here. He's making stuff up to support his agenda and a sizeable portion of his supporters wouldn't dare second guess him. That's not "just", that's outright scary.

Is it any more "scary" than when every other politician says something that isn't truthful?

Yes it definitely is. Politicians have lied in the last about things, sure, but (and yes, this is an assumption) that's usually done by telling half-truths and remaining as vague about things as possible (spinning facts so they work for you and nor against you) so that it's hard to know whether a statement is a lie.

This may sound worse because it's harder to know when someone is lying and when not. However, the idea that outright lying will have consequences because everyone knows you're lying seems to die a silent death here. As it turns out, a politician no longer has to spin words and stir around the facts to prevent a negative image in the public eye. Nope, just lying as blatantly as possible is the MO now because none of your supporters appear to even entertain the possibility of being lied to. It shows the general populace is even more stupid and gullible than I thought it was.

People condemn the comparison to Hitler, and I'm not saying Trump is like Hitler, but it shows that a Hitler-like figure would be able to rise to power without breaking a sweat. Just lie to the people so they can hear what they want to hear. Reality and reason is farther away than it ever was.

Alternative news in Trump's armory are dangerous. He does use such tactics far more than previous, known governments. Except Russia... and North Korea.

Eraser wrote:Yes it definitely is. Politicians have lied in the last about things, sure, but (and yes, this is an assumption) that's usually done by telling half-truths and remaining as vague about things as possible (spinning facts so they work for you and nor against you) so that it's hard to know whether a statement is a lie.

This may sound worse because it's harder to know when someone is lying and when not. However, the idea that outright lying will have consequences because everyone knows you're lying seems to die a silent death here. As it turns out, a politician no longer has to spin words and stir around the facts to prevent a negative image in the public eye. Nope, just lying as blatantly as possible is the MO now because none of your supporters appear to even entertain the possibility of being lied to. It shows the general populace is even more stupid and gullible than I thought it was.

People condemn the comparison to Hitler, and I'm not saying Trump is like Hitler, but it shows that a Hitler-like figure would be able to rise to power without breaking a sweat. Just lie to the people so they can hear what they want to hear. Reality and reason is farther away than it ever was.

But there is speculation that he just misspoke. Either referencing the wrong country or a television broadcast that happened on Friday. I think your problem might be with the fact that Trump said it and not actually what was said. ALL politicians lie or speak half truths to promote their agenda. This isn't something new. Just from someone new.

That's another problem with Trump, he sees something on Fox (which, itself often spins facts to support their own agenda) and then blindly cites that in some statement he makes without revealing his source.

With Trump, there's this feedback loop of information that's really dangerous. He reads something somewhere that is false. He then tweets about it as if it is true. Millions of his supporters assume it's true because their source is Trump, they then Tweet (write, post, say, whatever) about this themselves and BAM, here's millions of Tweets that Trump references when asked if said fact is true.

It's dangerous, and if you don't see how or why, then that's probably part of the problem. And yes, politicians have lied before, but rarely if ever has the president of the US lied about things that are so easily verifiably wrong.

Eraser wrote:rarely if ever has the president of the US lied about things that are so easily verifiably wrong.

I hear you on the lies, and I agree that Trump takes shit to the next level, but let's not forget that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld lied about WMDs in Iraq and we ended up going to war.

Transient wrote:

Eraser wrote:rarely if ever has the president of the US lied about things that are so easily verifiably wrong.

I hear you on the lies, and I agree that Trump takes shit to the next level, but let's not forget that Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld lied about WMDs in Iraq and we ended up going to war.

The WMDs was not easily un-provable though. We had to go off what they told us about secret intelligence reports and the like while Trump is just talking bullshit about things that even the most cursory Google search will corroborate as being utterly untrue.

Just a thought.

Aye, I'd to like to think that it was more a case of confirmation bias. Trump just makes up silly bollocks to support his agenda.

Exactly

LOL. You're upset at Trump and trying to validate your anger by saying he's dishonest. EVERY politician is equally, if not more dishonest.

Be angry at the system, be angry at the people who voted for him, be angry at his political positions. But you can't single out any one politician for saying whatever they want to promote their agenda.

"the system"

which system is that? the electoral college system?

also lol @ your daft logic. "lots of people do x (where x is something bad) so stop whining when people do x"

remind me to bring this up whenever you get mad about something

The "system", the process, it's all the same. But leave it up to you to trivialize.

You should get mad at what he said, if you need to. But you can't get mad at him for saying it. Politicians are known professional liars. If you're truly upset about a politician lying. How can you justify supporting any politician? However, anyone with a political agenda or affiliation is going to be angered by the opposing side. And I'm certain that's the real problem here. You're not upset by what was said or the fact that it was untrue. You're upset at the person/party.

Grow up.

You cant be for real ?, you cant be mad at Trump for lying ?.

Im mad at Bush for dragging us into a needless war
Im pissed at Blair for following him along
Im pissed at Ed Milliband for being a limp wristed faggot
Im pissed at Thatcher for selling out 30% of her electorate
Im pissed at Cameron for dumping us out of Europe and May with her silly pro brexit plan

All of which was / is based on personal bias, all of them have had their reputations tarnished because of it and you should be mad as hell that Trump is selling you down the river with a snake oil sales patter.

The fuck planet you on ?, "yea, hes a liar but they all do it so nvm"

Like those other politicians, they deserve the scrutiny and the repercussions that come with it when found out, you can't excuse someones actions. Trumps doing it in your face and your willing to overlook it, no wonder shit is fucked. The reason hes getting away with it is because people like you play along, presumably because of party affiliation and you got the cheek of accusing us of that ?, behave.

Also grow up ?, from a guy who just fitted LED lights to his bike ?

Besides the fact that we definitely should be mad at politicians lying at us, YGP missed the most important part of what I said, and that is that the ease with which these lies are accepted by a significant portion of the US populace is what scares me most.

losCHUNK wrote:You cant be for real ?, you cant be mad at Trump for lying ?.

Im mad at Bush for dragging us into a needless war
Im pissed at Blair for following him along
Im pissed at Ed Milliband for being a limp wristed faggot
Im pissed at Thatcher for selling out 30% of her electorate
Im pissed at Cameron for dumping us out of Europe and May with her silly pro brexit plan

All of which was / is based on personal bias, all of them have had their reputations tarnished because of it and you should be mad as hell that Trump is selling you down the river with a snake oil sales patter.

The fuck planet you on ?, "yea, hes a liar but they all do it so nvm"

Like those other politicians, they deserve the scrutiny and the repercussions that come with it when found out, you can't excuse someones actions. Trumps doing it in your face and your willing to overlook it, no wonder shit is fucked. The reason hes getting away with it is because people like you play along, presumably because of party affiliation and you got the cheek of accusing us of that ?, behave.

Also grow up ?, from a guy who just fitted LED lights to his bike ?

Well that was a comprehensive beating

jesus.....

Eraser wrote:Besides the fact that we definitely should be mad at politicians lying at us, YGP missed the most important part of what I said, and that is that the ease with which these lies are accepted by a significant portion of the US populace is what scares me most.

Yeah, be mad at them for lying. But then be selectively critical.

Anyone with an agenda, be it the media, politicians, corporations, etc. are going to give you information with their spin. EVERYONE knows this and it would be naive to expect something different. And in today's world of immediate fact checking and criticism from the opposition its even more naive to believe your notion that a "significant portion" of people actually believe the bullshit provided by those sources.

BTW, you didn't say anything important for me to miss.

Don Carlos wrote:Well that was a comprehensive beating

Comprehensive?

More like exaggerated tangent.

Please do me a favor and avoid quoting this moron in the future?

Thanks...

Double post.

YourGrandpa wrote:

Eraser wrote:Besides the fact that we definitely should be mad at politicians lying at us, YGP missed the most important part of what I said, and that is that the ease with which these lies are accepted by a significant portion of the US populace is what scares me most.

Yeah, be mad at them for lying. But then be selectively critical.

Anyone with an agenda, be it the media, politicians, corporations, etc. are going to give you information with their spin. EVERYONE knows this and it would be naive to expect something different. And in today's world of immediate fact checking and criticism from the opposition its even more naive to believe your notion that a "significant portion" of people actually believe the bullshit provided by those sources.

BTW, you didn't say anything important for me to miss.

You aren't being critical of Trump for this bullshit though, you're excusing it.

YourGrandpa wrote:You should get mad at what he said, if you need to.

i am, but only if i need to be

But you can't get mad at him for saying it.

but how could i know what he said if he didn't say it?

Politicians are known professional liars.

all of them? do you have evidence to back that up or that one of those 'home truths' you let rip while opening a beer can. t-tsch!

If you're truly upset about a politician lying. How can you justify supporting any politician?

right, because they're all lying all the time. i'm guessing you don't vote. is that correct?

However, anyone with a political agenda or affiliation is going to be angered by the opposing side. And I'm certain that's the real problem here.

t-tsch!

You're not upset by what was said or the fact that it was untrue. You're upset at the person/party.

wow, a sudden burst of moral relativism from a guy who's normally dead set in his opinions and knows what's right and what's not

t-tsch!

can't believe i took the trouble to make sense of gramps' gibberish long enough to respond

You really haven't got much time. You shouldn't squander what's left posting nonsense on the internet.

relevant.
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