Quake3World

Eraser wrote:

Don Carlos wrote:

Don Carlos wrote: http://www.joystickreview.com/microsoft ... ylepro.asp

about 1999 :icon26:

U still have yet to comment on this Eraser...
Not trollin, i just want to see what u think?

It's interesting, but quite different.

It's a PC peripheral, so it's pickup rate is obviously a lot lower. Doing crazy things like this for a PC is a lot less good idea than doing it for a home console.

Also marketing behind this thing was probably a lot less strong than behind a console like the Revolution. Another thing is that, since it's for the PC, and not every PC gamer has one, developers will never create games that require the thing.

That's why the thing was doomed to fail. They're just completely different circumstances than the Revolution.

Hopefully tec has improved as that Microsoft pad was fucking shite

Eraser wrote:

glossy wrote:the GameCube controller is complete shit

I think it's actually pretty nice. It just sucks for fighting games and the little C-stick was bollocks, but it looks like the Rev shell will have a normal stick for the c-stick, which is much better.

ayiayiayi!~ xbox fanboy coming through:

Grab yourself an S Controller, and a GameCube controller. the triggers on the xbox are tight and noticable, whilst the camecube shoulder buttons feel very flimsy and are awkwardly shaped, the analogue stick feels very loose and has that ridiculous shape it forces you into, whilst the S's analogues are tight, responsive, and have almost no deadzone. the gamecube buttons feel flimsy again, and you can't easily tell when they're activated or not, whereas the S controller's buttons have a noticable 'click' when they are active. The gamecube controller is very light, whereas the xbox controller actually helps you hold on to something. don't start me on cord length.

I know this debate has been done before, but the Xbox's S > almost anything else i've used.

Ahuh, yeah.

TBH, what would make hte Rev controller perfect (for me) is this:

- Replace the C-Stick with a second analog stick.
- Replace the D-Pad with the C-Stick.
- Get rid of the cheap plastic feel. (You can HEAR the springs inside clang about... ugh)
- Stiffen/reshape the L/R buttons, as these are just odd to press when you need to fast.
- In fact, possibly rework the design of L/R/Z so that L/R were in fact 2 bottons each, so that you have 4 buttons on top.

This would make it very swish. But TBH i could deal with 2 nice L/R buttons and 2 analog sticks. I cant stand the C-Stick for aiming or moving.

Eraser wrote:

o'dium wrote:and as a very close second, the WaveBird.

Again innovation by Nintendo.
They were the first to do a wireless controller.
Now look at the next gen. All three consoles have wireless controllers by default.

now you REALLY need to stop being the fanboy
wireless controllers were available for the Atari2600

Dr_Watson wrote:

Eraser wrote: Same goes for an analogue stick when it was introduced with the N64.

I understand you are a nintendo fanboy... but please keep your facts straight. The N64 was launched a full 2 years after the psx had two analoge sticks.

I think you're the one who should get your facts straight. The Nintendo64 was released on June 23 1996, and from the start included an analog stick.

The Playstation, while released almost 2 years earlier in December 1994, it didn't originally had a controller with analog sticks on it. Only in late 1997 was the dual shock controller released which had 2 analog sticks.

Check these links for more info:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo64
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playstation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DualShock

aye, i was using them pads right the way up till my ps2

didnt like the weight of the dual shock controllers :]

The original xbox pads have the rare distinction of being the best FPS gamepad ever.... and the worst beat 'em up pad ever.

im used to them pads but the position of the black and white buttons

omg

the ps2 pads arent perfect though.... the L/R shoulder buttons are too high up for a natural position of your index fingers

MKJ wrote:

Eraser wrote:

o'dium wrote:and as a very close second, the WaveBird.

Again innovation by Nintendo.
They were the first to do a wireless controller.
Now look at the next gen. All three consoles have wireless controllers by default.

now you REALLY need to stop being the fanboy
wireless controllers were available for the Atari2600

MKJ wrote:

Eraser wrote:

o'dium wrote:and as a very close second, the WaveBird.

Again innovation by Nintendo.
They were the first to do a wireless controller.
Now look at the next gen. All three consoles have wireless controllers by default.

now you REALLY need to stop being the fanboy
wireless controllers were available for the Atari2600

Available, sure. But not endorsed and made standard on a mainstream console platform, after which the other 2 major players adopt the wireless standard on their new top of the line platform.

glossy wrote:

shadd_ wrote:yeah thats in the article but confirmed by nintendo that there will be a "shell" to play with a traditional controller.

the GameCube controller is complete shit

That's a matter of opinion. Personally, I think its the best of all the platform's controllers to date.

zewulf wrote:

Foo wrote:The standard PS pad didn't feature analog sticks. It only became standard with the PS2.

The original PSX pad didn't have any sticks, but after the big N introduced the N64 controller, Sony came out with the Dual Shock controller (which did become the standard pad for the PSX). In fact, there were two versions of the PSX Dual Shock. The first version had no rumble motors (so technically you can't call it a Dual Shock, but it was lighter due to the lack of the motors) and had slander and more elongated handle bars than the 2nd version. The 2nd version, which came out shortly after the first version, was of course the one that had the rumble feature, and Sony kept the shape/size of this version for the Dual Shock 2 for the PS2.

BTW, I have all 3 versions of the PSX controller

I stand corrected and apologize humbly.
i did some research just out of curiosity, and the N64 was apparently the first controler that had an analogue stick on it.
but by only 1 month.
it launched in june 96, sega had one for the saturn in july 96... the dualshock didn't come around until late 97
totally forgot about the digi-pad for psx; since i didn't get a playstation until 98 (because granturismo came out), the DS1 was already shipping with it.

but i do agree with donnie... to-date the DS2 is the best controler ever made.
nintendo hasn't made a controler i liked since the snes. (or a console for that matter) - and i guess if you wanted to you could say they invented shoulder buttons for the snes pad, which has been copied by ever console since.

i wouldnt emphasize the 1 month thing too much. you have to remember that nintendo announced and showed the analog stick way before the system was actually released.

That is true. Nights was designed by Sega to try and quickly q-up Nintendo on the analog issue. Nintendo had announced theirs long before actually showing it off.

The dual shock is shitty. the analog sticks are in the worst positions possible.

shadd_ wrote:you nintendo geeks seen this yet?

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html

After reading that article, I'm 100% behind this controller.

This is going to be practically a Gamecube controller using bluetooth wireless. On top of that, you can take the comm part out of the middle and use it in unlimited ways.

Some company is going to design an airplane flight stick, where the sensors and gyros tell the console when you're pulling up or turning or whatever else - no cord.

There will be a steering wheel - maybe even handlebars - that can wirelessly control games.

There will surely be guns.

There will be developers who make games using the existing controls, and adding functionality with other add-on controls.

I think this really is going to be a revolution in the industry.

One notable bit in that article (about the gamecube-style shell):

Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.

R00k wrote:

shadd_ wrote:you nintendo geeks seen this yet?

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html

After reading that article, I'm 100% behind this controller.

This is going to be practically a Gamecube controller using bluetooth wireless. On top of that, you can take the comm part out of the middle and use it in unlimited ways.

Some company is going to design an airplane flight stick, where the sensors and gyros tell the console when you're pulling up or turning or whatever else - no cord.

There will be a steering wheel - maybe even handlebars - that can wirelessly control games.

There will surely be guns.

There will be developers who make games using the existing controls, and adding functionality with other add-on controls.

I think this really is going to be a revolution in the industry.

you make some really good points i never thought of.

Foo wrote:One notable bit in that article (about the gamecube-style shell):

Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.

But just as notable is the description of what they do know about it

The shell is designed to look and function like accepted "regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football, gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved accuracy.

So that picture probably doesn't look exactly like the final product, but the idea and the implementation are essentially the same.

It sounds pretty good to me. :icon14:

R00k wrote:

shadd_ wrote:you nintendo geeks seen this yet?

http://cube.ign.com/articles/651/651559p1.html

After reading that article, I'm 100% behind this controller.

This is going to be practically a Gamecube controller using bluetooth wireless. On top of that, you can take the comm part out of the middle and use it in unlimited ways.

Some company is going to design an airplane flight stick, where the sensors and gyros tell the console when you're pulling up or turning or whatever else - no cord.

There will be a steering wheel - maybe even handlebars - that can wirelessly control games.

There will surely be guns.

There will be developers who make games using the existing controls, and adding functionality with other add-on controls.

I think this really is going to be a revolution in the industry.

sounds like they're trying to make the consumer buy 9000 different controlers; like the dreamcast woefully attempted.

glossy wrote:

Eraser wrote:

glossy wrote:the GameCube controller is complete shit

I think it's actually pretty nice. It just sucks for fighting games and the little C-stick was bollocks, but it looks like the Rev shell will have a normal stick for the c-stick, which is much better.

ayiayiayi!~ xbox fanboy coming through:

Grab yourself an S Controller, and a GameCube controller. the triggers on the xbox are tight and noticable, whilst the camecube shoulder buttons feel very flimsy and are awkwardly shaped, the analogue stick feels very loose and has that ridiculous shape it forces you into, whilst the S's analogues are tight, responsive, and have almost no deadzone. the gamecube buttons feel flimsy again, and you can't easily tell when they're activated or not, whereas the S controller's buttons have a noticable 'click' when they are active. The gamecube controller is very light, whereas the xbox controller actually helps you hold on to something. don't start me on cord length.

I know this debate has been done before, but the Xbox's S > almost anything else i've used.

I'm not saying you're wrong. But I'm used to the gamecube controller and found it very easy to adapt to. I thought the N64 controller was horrible. I just couldn't get used to it, and I played a lot with it. The same is true for me for the XBox (and S) controller. While I must admit I haven't used it that much, it felt really odd. While I'm sure this is 90% because of simply not being used to using it, it does show that it all comes down to personal preference and what you're used to.

I don't agree with any of the con points you've given for the gamecube controller. I've always thought that, with the exception of the Nintendo DS shoulder buttons, every Nintendo controller felt pretty rugged.

r3t wrote:

MKJ wrote:

Eraser wrote: Again innovation by Nintendo.
They were the first to do a wireless controller.
Now look at the next gen. All three consoles have wireless controllers by default.

now you REALLY need to stop being the fanboy
wireless controllers were available for the Atari2600

Available, sure. But not endorsed and made standard on a mainstream console platform, after which the other 2 major players adopt the wireless standard on their new top of the line platform.

oh please. the fact that the next gens will all use wireless really isnt fueled by nintendo. with wifi being the standard for connectivity its the next logical step. it wouldve happened with or without nintendo's wavebird

r3t wrote:

MKJ wrote:

Eraser wrote: Again innovation by Nintendo.
They were the first to do a wireless controller.
Now look at the next gen. All three consoles have wireless controllers by default.

now you REALLY need to stop being the fanboy
wireless controllers were available for the Atari2600

Available, sure. But not endorsed and made standard on a mainstream console platform, after which the other 2 major players adopt the wireless standard on their new top of the line platform.

Yeah that's what I mean.
There were first person games before Return to Castle Wolfenstein as well. There were "real" 3D FPS games before Wolf3D as well. There were 3D games with support for hardware accelerated graphics before Quake2 (or GlQuake, whichever came first) as well.

The fact remains that Wolf3D is still seen as the first true 3D shooter. Doom was seen as the mother of all FPS games, even though it wasn't the first. Quake 2, at the time, and probably still even, is seen as being revolutionary for offering hardware support for 3D graphics and a driving force behind graphical hardware sales.

The point is not that Nintendo were the first with technology. Like I said before, and probably in this thread (search for it), it's not about who is the first to "invent" the technology, it's about who is the first to succesfully implement it and make it succesful, preferably up to the point where the competition copies the idea for their own systems.

I used the example of the DS touchscreen before. It would be a ridiculous claim to say Nintendo was the first to invent a touchscreen. They weren't the first to have games with a touchscreen (many PDA owners will probably play a game with it from time to time) but they are the first to use it in it's current form, make it succesful in that form and generate that much innovation at software producers.

The same is true for the d-pad, analogue sticks, handheld gaming devices and wireless controllers.

MKJ wrote:

r3t wrote:

MKJ wrote: now you REALLY need to stop being the fanboy
wireless controllers were available for the Atari2600

Available, sure. But not endorsed and made standard on a mainstream console platform, after which the other 2 major players adopt the wireless standard on their new top of the line platform.

oh please. the fact that the next gens will all use wireless really isnt fueled by nintendo. with wifi being the standard for connectivity its the next logical step. it wouldve happened with or without nintendo's wavebird

Perhaps, but it does show Nintendo was a step ahead of the competition. It's obvious wifi connectivity isn't required for a wireless controller. I do bet the wavebird had something to do with it. No one did it before, mainly because power consumption was too high and possibly because companies thought there was no interest in it from the consumer.

The wavebird has shown the huge interest. Both MS and Sony now knew Nintendo's next console would most likely have wireless controllers out of the box, because of the wavebird's succes, and that is a chance MS and Sony didn't want to pass up. They had to include wireless control to stay ahead of Nintendo.

It's not that far sought IMO.