#IStandWithAhmed

[Silicone_Milk]

I never said that. I literally said that I understand someone can be confused about what it is (which you'd have known if you had actually read the thread). I just think this whole thing could and should be handled without getting the police, handcuffs and detention centers involved.

The irony here is that the (negative) attention people claim Ahmed was seeking is exactly what he got through the overblown reaction from the people around him.

I agree that the involvement of police and their handling of the situation should have gone down differently.

[Eraser]

I agree that the involvement of police and their handling of the situation should have gone down differently.

Wow, OK, there we are.

[Silicone_Milk]

lol, and people say I find it hard to accept someone else's point of view.

I repeatedly tried to explain to Silicone Milk that his background, the amount of engineering or even his intentions have little to do with how, on the spot, school and police decided to handle this. That's the only point I'm trying to make, yet Silicone Milk rambles on with his crazy conspiracy theories.

Just because somebody has an opposing view you don't agree with doesn't make it a "crazy conspiracy theory". I don't think it's that far-fetched to think a 14 year old kid was just stirring some shit at school.
Sure, my personal thought on it, being that it was intentionally done so his family could sue the school, could be a bit of a stretch. At bare minimum though I don't think it's out of the question to think that Ahmed was just pushing boundaries and being 14 who took a prank too far then got called out on it.

As it turns out, they are, in fact, suing the school district now.

[Silicone_Milk]

Oh shit guys, I figured it out. The real problem isn't the click-may-be-bomb thing, it's that we're dealing with a bona fide juvenile plagiarism mastermind, passing off someone else's clock as his own. 20 years to life for this kid I say.

No, that isn't what I'm saying the problem is. I'm saying the fact that he didn't make the clock (despite saying he did) took all credibility out of his story for me (and many others). He says he's showing off his invention except he didn't make it. He's blatantly lying and taking credit for making this clock; this just makes people wonder what else he's not being 100% honest about and puts the entirety of the story in a different light.

[Silicone_Milk]

I agree that the involvement of police and their handling of the situation should have gone down differently.

Wow, OK, there we are.

?
I said he shouldn't have been arrested at all in my very first post.

[Eraser]

I don't think it's entirely unreasonable to think he wanted to stir shit at school either. Maybe he did. What I'm just so opposed against is this whole witch hunt against him and his family, to severely discredit him in order to justify the way this whole thing has been handled.

I stick with my point that, assuming the worst case scenario where this was all a hoax to provoke school, the school could've defused the whole situation (there's a pun there) by not getting the cops involved and giving him a stern talking to.

Having said that, it's incredibly easy to spin this story in multiple ways, so for now, I'll stick to the basic principle of our justice system: innocent until proven guilty.

[Transient]

If this kid is building CPUs and shit why wouldn't he have brought that in to school to show his teacher? That shit's amazing. Why did he think a clock was even worth showing off to anybody if he's making significantly more complicated and more interesting things at home?

Maybe building a clock was the project, not building a computer? How do you know he never brought in a computer? Has he said this is the first thing he's ever brought in? You make a lot of assumptions...

[Eraser]

Funnily enough, the media has maneuvered itself between a rock and a hard place:

If it ever turns out the motives of the kid were simply kid-like (meaning that he was proud of what he did and wanted to show it at school), then the fear induced knee-jerk way of operating is as clear as a candle and the scent of Islamophobia grows even stronger.

If it turns out the motives of the kid weren't as kid-like as I hope then the kid (and presumably his family) got exactly what they wanted through the way this has been handled.

[Silicone_Milk]

If this kid is building CPUs and shit why wouldn't he have brought that in to school to show his teacher? That shit's amazing. Why did he think a clock was even worth showing off to anybody if he's making significantly more complicated and more interesting things at home?

Maybe building a clock was the project, not building a computer? How do you know he never brought in a computer? Has he said this is the first thing he's ever brought in? You make a lot of assumptions...

Where are you getting the idea that building a clock was an assigned project?
I didn't say he never brought in a computer. If making a clock was such a simple and basic thing to him then why is he acting like he merely wanted to show off his invention as if he put in any effort to make it?
If he's making computers from scratch and bringing them into school, why is he suddenly bringing in the guts of a clock he didn't have any part in making and acting proud of it?
It seems contradictory.

[Silicone_Milk]

Funnily enough, the media has maneuvered itself between a rock and a hard place:

If it ever turns out the motives of the kid were simply kid-like (meaning that he was proud of what he did and wanted to show it at school), then the fear induced knee-jerk way of operating is as clear as a candle and the scent of Islamophobia grows even stronger.

If it turns out the motives of the kid weren't as kid-like as I hope then the kid (and presumably his family) got exactly what they wanted through the way this has been handled.

Regardless of whether it was a simple, innocent project fueled by kid-like wonderment and is the product of this genius' hopes and dreams or if it's just a kid rocking the boat for whatever reason, his religion has nothing to do with it in my opinion.
People seem to think that the teacher was like "hey this is an awesome clock... wait a minute... you're Muslim! This is clearly a bomb."
The clock itself was suspicious and would still be so would it have been brought in by anybody other student.
Still, I wonder, if this was such an innocent project, why would it ever cross Ahmed's mind that anything about it was suspicious in the first place before bringing it to school?

This isn't Islamophobia but people want to claim it is because Ahmed and his family happen to be Muslim. So what? People having an adverse reaction to suspicious shit isn't automatically a religious attack.
That's the part that actually bothers me about the entire story - people are trying to paint this as some sort of attack on Islam and anybody who doesn't side with Ahmed is automatically a racist bigot. A lot of people are too blinded by this kid's name and religion to step back and consider for a moment that maybe it's possible that this actually was intended to be a hoax bomb because the kid's a kid and made a stupid decision to pull a prank in bad taste. Maybe kids of all religious or non-religious backgrounds make dumb choices.

[Transient]

I didn't say he never brought in a computer.

If this kid is building CPUs and shit why wouldn't he have brought that in to school to show his teacher?

[Silicone_Milk]

I didn't say he never brought in a computer.

If this kid is building CPUs and shit why wouldn't he have brought that in to school to show his teacher?

And? Why wouldn't he have brought in the latest and greatest if he's soldering up CPUs? Why is he bringing this janky embarrassment of an electronics project when he's making CPUs and is going to start work on a "side hoverboard" next? But a clock. Yeah, that's pretty cool and right up there with things you'd want to show off with your homemade CPUs and hoverboards right? OK, sure, his hoverboard hasn't been built yet, but he's still soldering CPUs (according to him) so why would he waste people's time with this clock he didn't even make?

It's like, "yeah I was the primary engineer for Google's AdSense system. But, hey, check out this program I made that calculates how old you are if you enter your birthdate. Except I didn't make it, I copied the source code off Stack Overflow."

Do you really not see why that sounds really strange at all?

[losCHUNK]

Where did you see it beeped in his bag ? You also said you seen reports saying he did show other teachers ?

Maybe he was trying to get his teachers to think he did something good, maybe he wanted to show the teacher the different components, maybe he thought this was what engineering was, maybe he wanted to look like an ultimate hax in front of the other school kids or teachers but NOTHING suggests he tried passing it off as a bomb.

He told everyone it was a clock, he showed his teacher it was a clock, he did as he was told and didn't show any other teachers, no one thought it was a bomb, the school and police determined it wasn't a bomb and later admitted he didn't try deceiving anyone into thinking it was a bomb (hence the dropped charges).

This isn't the original source for where I read it but it says the same thing about the clock being in the backpack at the time it started going off - http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/201 ... -to-school

Ahmed says making the clock was easy because he does more complicated stuff like "building CPUs and soldering them."
[youtube]avAatzhL4m4[/youtube]
At around 1:35 or so.

If this kid is building CPUs and shit why wouldn't he have brought that in to school to show his teacher? That shit's amazing. Why did he think a clock was even worth showing off to anybody if he's making significantly more complicated and more interesting things at home?

Like I said, of course he told people it was a clock. Nobody is going to go around saying "check out this hoax bomb I made isn't this cool?"

[image]

Saying somebody's homemade clock looks like a bomb isn't equivalent to going around saying he must be an isis member ready to blow shit up because he's Muslim. The kid's religion has absolute nothing to do with how his clock looks.

Honestly the 1st link is shoddy Journalism, there's no source provided but there's plenty of reports saying he kept it in his backpack, that one just neglects to mention he took it out. What about showing other teachers ?

And like I said, NOTHING suggests he tried passing it off as a bomb. It didn't look like a bomb cos no one thought it was a bomb, he did what he was told, he explained what it was, he never said it was a bomb. I've already given an explanation as to why he said he 'invented' it but nothing suggests he made it to pass it off as a bomb but something to impress other people with.

Your main reason seems to be that cos he didn't put any effort into his 'invention' and tried passing it off as his own work that he must be trying to simulate a bomb without anything supporting it.

[Silicone_Milk]

Honestly the 1st link is shoddy Journalism, there's no source provided but there's plenty of reports saying he kept it in his backpack, that one just neglects to mention he took it out. What about showing other teachers ?

And like I said, NOTHING suggests he tried passing it off as a bomb. It didn't look like a bomb cos no one thought it was a bomb, he did what he was told, he explained what it was, he never said it was a bomb. I've already given an explanation as to why he said he 'invented' it but nothing suggests he made it to pass it off as a bomb but something to impress other people with.

Your main reason seems to be that cos he didn't put any effort into his 'invention' and tried passing it off as his own work that he must be trying to simulate a bomb without anything supporting it.

We have already established several times now that nobody thought it was a bomb. I've said this, and almost everybody in this thread has said this. That's why he wasn't arrested for bringing a bomb to school.
A teacher thought it was intended to look like it could be a bomb which is why they've been saying hoax bomb instead of an actual bomb.

Your explanation for why he would say he "invented" it doesn't make sense now, though. Being 14 doesn't make you a moron. He also claims to build his own CPUs so how likely is it, really, that he honestly thinks replacing the case of a clock counts as an invention? Why would he be proud that he can pull the case off a clock if he's "soldering CPUs" and plans on making a "side hoverboard" (quite a leap from his clock invention) as his next invention?

No, that's not my "main reason". I'm saying I think the kid's full of shit because he's trying to pass off work that isn't his as his own invention. So, what else is he lying about if he's lying about having even made the clock?

His own story about the origins of the clock also don't match his dad's story about the clock.
Ahmed says he built the clock in 20 minutes the night before school.
His dad says that it was an alarm clock he made which he wakes up with most mornings.
How is it that Ahmed wakes up regularly with this clock he made if he had only just made it the night before?

Like I've been saying this entire time, the whole story doesn't add up. I'm not saying he's guilty of making a bomb or hoax bomb because he couldn't be arsed to take the time to build his own clock. I'm saying that, in light of the new updates as the story progresses, it starts to seem likely that Ahmed's just fucking with the school like countless kids before him. He had the benefit of the doubt that he was unfairly attacked because his invention was misunderstood by Islamophobic assholes but when it turns out he didn't make it; then it starts to sound like he's bullshiting.

[losCHUNK]

Underpants > ? > profit

I know we established that it wasn't a bomb but no one thought it was a bomb, it wasn't claimed to be a bomb, it was explained as a clock but it was still called a hoax bomb without anyone having any reason to think it was anything but a clock. The authorities have determined he wasn't trying to be misleading.

His Dad was probably saying it was his clock, which it was. It's hard to tell with cherry picked quotes but that's the impression I get.

And like I've been saying, NOTHING suggests it was anything other than something he tried impressing people with. The strongest claim you make is a cherry picked, off handed comment by his father that can be interpreted however you want it to be, nothing suggests he's anything but a moron for trying to pass it off as his own work as you put it.

No kid should have to go through that, at no point at anytime did he try to be misleading, hint, or make anyone think it wasn't anything but a clock but, no one thought it was a bomb, why was it even considered a hoax ? regardless of what is said after the fact.

[seremtan]

page 4 fucked to death

[Eraser]

The problem everyone seems to gloss over is that after this happening, not a single high school student will think of proudly bringing a home-built electronics device to school (or wherever), ever again.

The whole idea of tinkering with electronics and showing people what you're proud of got a severe kick in the nuts, which is damaging to the field in general.

[seremtan]

[losCHUNK]

The problem everyone seems to gloss over is that after this happening, not a single high school student will think of proudly bringing a home-built electronics device to school (or wherever), ever again.

The whole idea of tinkering with electronics and showing people what you're proud of got a severe kick in the nuts, which is damaging to the field in general.

This is what's in the back of my mind when I'm talking about it and why I can't defend the school or police reaction in the slightest. Despite what it was or his intentions no one at any point had reason to believe it was a bomb, pupils, teachers or police but they still proceded to raise the issue, call the police then have him arrested. I can understand confiscating it until the end of the day but anything else is a complete over reaction to a simple situation, this sort of stuff should be encouraged.

[Eraser]

This is what's in the back of my mind when I'm talking about it and why I can't defend the school or police reaction in the slightest. Despite what it was or his intentions no one at any point had reason to believe it was a bomb, pupils, teachers or police but they still proceded to raise the issue, call the police then have him arrested. I can understand confiscating it until the end of the day but anything else is a complete over reaction to a simple situation.

Yeah this is what I've being arguing about in the entire thread, that it was the reaction that was mostly unprovoked.
Yet a whole bunch of people in the media continue to argue that the reaction wasn't unprovoked because of all sorts of "facts" the school nor the police could've known at the time.

[Silicone_Milk]

The problem everyone seems to gloss over is that after this happening, not a single high school student will think of proudly bringing a home-built electronics device to school (or wherever), ever again.

The whole idea of tinkering with electronics and showing people what you're proud of got a severe kick in the nuts, which is damaging to the field in general.

Actually, it's just that people will think twice about how their home-built electronics device looks before bringing it to school and will probably ask if it's ok to bring it to show people.
What the problem is, in my mind, is now teachers across the U.S. have been silenced and won't question potentially dangerous things because they might offend somebody. Now some kid can make a briefcase bomb (that really is a bomb), and the teachers will be too scared to say that it's anything except maybe a clock.

[losCHUNK]

No one thought it was a bomb

[Silicone_Milk]

This is what's in the back of my mind when I'm talking about it and why I can't defend the school or police reaction in the slightest. Despite what it was or his intentions no one at any point had reason to believe it was a bomb, pupils, teachers or police but they still proceded to raise the issue, call the police then have him arrested. I can understand confiscating it until the end of the day but anything else is a complete over reaction to a simple situation.

Yeah this is what I've being arguing about in the entire thread, that it was the reaction that was mostly unprovoked.
Yet a whole bunch of people in the media continue to argue that the reaction wasn't unprovoked because of all sorts of "facts" the school nor the police could've known at the time.

Again, it doesn't matter if the school or police knew of the facts that have been being revealed afterwards.
At the time it was "no we don't think it's a bomb. We do, however, think it was meant to look like one."
Whether it was legitimately a clock this kid whipped up or not didn't matter at the time. It looked like it was setup in a way to look like it could be a bomb and that was the problem.
And we all were like "wow that's fuckin racist the poor kid just wanted to invent for the good of mankind. It's an innocent hobby project for a kid. Good on him for making a clock at the age of 14 that's impressive! Of course he'd want to show that off. "
Then things start to look strange when we find out he didn't make a clock. Suddenly our defense of him just showing an innocent hobby project he lovingly crafted falls apart. He didn't make it. OK, he's 14 so maybe it's impressive for him to just move the parts of a clock he bought into a pencil case.
Then he's quoted in interview saying it was a simple thing he threw together in 20 minutes and that he does more complicated things like soldering CPUs. So now we don't have a 14 year old kid who thinks it's impressive to remove some screws. This kid is a goddamn genius who makes CPUs but still couldn't take the time to make his own clock yet decides the clock he didn't build is the best thing to bring in to show people.
Really weird.

Underpants > ? > profit

I know we established that it wasn't a bomb but no one thought it was a bomb, it wasn't claimed to be a bomb, it was explained as a clock but it was still called a hoax bomb without anyone having any reason to think it was anything but a clock. The authorities have determined he wasn't trying to be misleading.

His Dad was probably saying it was his clock, which it was. It's hard to tell with cherry picked quotes but that's the impression I get.

And like I've been saying, NOTHING suggests it was anything other than something he tried impressing people with. The strongest claim you make is a cherry picked, off handed comment by his father that can be interpreted however you want it to be, nothing suggests he's anything but a moron for trying to pass it off as his own work as you put it.

No kid should have to go through that, at no point at anytime did he try to be misleading, hint, or make anyone think it wasn't anything but a clock but, no one thought it was a bomb, why was it even considered a hoax ? regardless of what is said after the fact.

Yeah, nobody thought it was a bomb. A person who makes a hoax bomb isn't going to claim it's a bomb and explain it off as a clock. It was called a hoax bomb because of all the clocks most people have seen in their entire life, none had looked like that.

OK so lets assume his dad misspoke and was simply saying Ahmed took an existing clock he's had this entire time and decided to take it apart.
Why is Ahmed saying that he bought the parts for the clock and put them together in his room.
So how long has he had this clock then if he put the parts together the night before class and says he bought the parts but his dad says he's been waking up with the clock either in it's gutted form or in it's original form for many mornings?
The answer to that question isn't important. It's just another conflicting piece of information between interviews and Ahmed's family needs to get their facts straight. And none of the media seems to be pressing the family to explain the inconsistencies and help fill in the gaps.

Ahmed is quoted as saying he does way more complicated things like building CPUs and soldering them. But, yeah, he's going to remove the case off a pre-made clock to impress people.

No kid who doesn't make shady lookin shit and show it around school should have to go through that. His very first teacher (the engineering teacher) said "hey don't show this around it's suspicious looking". Ahmed decides to plug the clock in in the middle of English class instead. Why? He couldn't wait until after class to impress people?
He was being pretty misleading about having created the clock in the first place.
It was treated as a hoax bomb because it wasn't a bomb, the teachers and police knew it wasn't a bomb, but the circumstances around bringing a metal briefcase-looking pencil box stuffed with a circuit board and exposed wires when there's no science fair or anything of the sort was suspicious. It wouldn't be unreasonable for somebody to have thought it was a bomb if they found it just sitting in a parking lot unattended or in a bathroom or whatever. You sure as hell weren't going to go unquestioned through an airport with that thing going "dont mind me just checking the time with my kickass homemade clock because I'm a genius you know."

No one thought it was a bomb

We know. They know. Everybody knows. Nobody's saying that. You do understand that hoax bomb is not the same as real bomb, right?

[losCHUNK]

He had to buy the pencil case, right ?. I'm not saying he wasn't trying to trick people into thinking he did something impressive but I am saying nothing suggests that he tried to make it look like a bomb. He's done it before n all, he dismantled some USB thing and said he invented it on youtube or someshit so it's not out of character nor malicious and you don't know his mind so you can't say either, he may actually think he's engineering. The engineering teacher said don't show any other teachers which he didn't. What the facts do point to is that he assembled a clock in a pencil case, showed it to his teachers and other pupils, they confirmed it was a clock but then claimed it to be a hoax despite their own beliefs of it not being a bomb and Ahmeds insistence that it was a clock. They didn't find it un attended, they found it in someones possession explaining that it was a clock having already shown other people including a teacher, NO ONE THOUGHT IT WAS A BOMB NOR CLAIMED IT TO BE A BOMB SO HOW CAN IT BE A FUCKING HOAX, the very definition of a hoax is to pretend something is the truth. The police confirmed that Ahmed was not being misleading in any way.

So seeing as no one thought it was a bomb in the 1st place, as no one should have, so how it could affect any potential real threats in the future. You trying to say that an actual IED wouldn't raise any alarms ?, un attended packages are still gonna be treated in exactly the same way.

I give up anyway, like the 9/11 'facts' anyone will jump on something irrelevant and claim conspiracy then twist the real story to suit their agenda.

[Eraser]

On what did they base the conclusion that it was meant as a hoax bomb to provoke?