I think I'm finished with C&C Generals...

Post by **Foo** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:17 am

...having just played a match against the hardest AI opponent and finding that the same repetitive tactics get them every time... You don't even have to lose a single soldier.

Step 1: Basic base plus defences (1 gatling cannon 1 bunker full of rockets)

Step 2: Money Supply and backup defences (1 dozer per defence, 1 propaganda tower healing the dozer)

Step 3: Build as many nukes as you can afford and cast them into the enemy base.

This is really shitty... I really can't find a well-balanced, modern-theme RTS game which satisfies my RTS needs. The closest anything ever came was Total Annihilation, and that's starting to look a bit past it.

Post by **feedback** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:26 am

Starcraft is the pinnacle of RTS. GGNORE

Post by **shiznit** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:28 am

The only C&C I liked was the original and red alert, everything else was meh.

Post by **losCHUNK** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:30 am

C&C, RA + RA2 owned

generals didnt grip me, just felt bland and boring

Post by **losCHUNK** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:32 am

is there any games like these coming out though ?

ive missed them dearly

Post by **duffman91** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 3:43 am

I always liked Tiberian Sun over all other C & C releases. Generals was horrible.

Looks to me like 2d RTS games are no longer going to be made. I don't like the feel of 3d RTS games.

Post by **CheapAlert** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 5:06 am

yeah new RTS games are utter shite these days, with cliche'd GI-Joe wannabe voice acting, cheap lame tactics abuse from AI and other obvious clones and wannabes out there. Seriously, who wants to be an EA game?

Post by **Grudge** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:01 am

I liked Dawn of War. The lack of resource collecting was refreshing. But that's perhaps because I played the tabletop game for ~10 years.

RTS games are always tricky though - the AI is always predictable and not much of a challenge, and playing against random people on the internet is about as enjoyable as pounding your head repeatedly into a concrete wall. Playing against people you know is a fucking blast though.

Post by **SplishSplash** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:04 am

Generals was good.

Post by **glossy** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:31 am

I'm beginning to think that RTS games just weren't meant to ever be in three dimensions.

Generals was very, very average compared to RA2, RA and C&C. RA was RTS bliss.

It's all about the PPL FPS with the DirectX 9.0 Shader somethingwhatsits, and the divorce-your-wife-drop-out-of-school MMORPGs.

What happed to "I have half an hour before class, quick skirmish time" ?

Post by **MKJ** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:33 am

Generals is an RTS for the MTV Generation :icon14:

Post by **Massive Quasars** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:38 am

divorce-your-wife-drop-out-of-school MMORPGs

This should be in someone's sig.

Post by **Eraser** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:50 am

glossy wrote:I'm beginning to think that RTS games just weren't meant to ever be in three dimensions.

Generals was very, very average compared to RA2, RA and C&C. RA was RTS bliss.

It's all about the PPL FPS with the DirectX 9.0 Shader somethingwhatsits, and the divorce-your-wife-drop-out-of-school MMORPGs.

What happed to "I have half an hour before class, quick skirmish time" ?

I don't think either one has anything to do with each other.

An RTS can have great gameplay with great graphics. If a FPS focuses only on graphics and neglets gameplay, then that game will be no fun to play either.

The transition to 3D in RTSes is not a bad thing IMO, as long as the camera isn't free roaming and all you can do is rotate the battlefield and zoom in/out.

Saying that RTSes aren't meant for 3D is nonsense. If you coded a 3D engine but made it so that the camera is always fixed in the same position, the feeling of it would be identical to a 2D sprite based engine.

Post by **MKJ** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 7:52 am

aww, how cute. a list-o-games as a sig :icon14:

Post by **Mr.Magnetichead** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:13 am

losCHUNK wrote:is there any games like these coming out though ?

ive missed them dearly

There are 3 titles you should look out for:

1) Red Alert 3. No news yet but it is in the works.

2) Battle for Middle Earth 2. Check out these videos. It looks to be be 100 times better than the first game. http://media.pc.ign.com/media/761/761534/vids_1.html

3) Supreme Commander. The true spiritual succesor to Total Annihilation.
http://supcom.gaspowered.com/

Post by **DooMer** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:39 am

Rise of Legends and AOE3. Everything else is shit.

Post by **Mr.Magnetichead** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:41 am

DooMer wrote:Rise of Legends and AOE3. Everything else is shit.

Only if you're a complete nerd.

Not everyone wants to fight a 6 hour tech tree war to then just have the whole thing degrade into a war of attrition.

Post by **DooMer** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:44 am

You can play them any way you want. Theres a shit load of options. At least in ROL

Post by **MKJ** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:46 am

doomer speaks the truth

Post by **glossy** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 8:58 am

Eraser wrote:
glossy wrote:I'm beginning to think that RTS games just weren't meant to ever be in three dimensions.

Generals was very, very average compared to RA2, RA and C&C. RA was RTS bliss.

It's all about the PPL FPS with the DirectX 9.0 Shader somethingwhatsits, and the divorce-your-wife-drop-out-of-school MMORPGs.

What happed to "I have half an hour before class, quick skirmish time" ?
I don't think either one has anything to do with each other.

An RTS can have great gameplay with great graphics. If a FPS focuses only on graphics and neglets gameplay, then that game will be no fun to play either.

The transition to 3D in RTSes is not a bad thing IMO, as long as the camera isn't free roaming and all you can do is rotate the battlefield and zoom in/out.

Saying that RTSes aren't meant for 3D is nonsense. If you coded a 3D engine but made it so that the camera is always fixed in the same position, the feeling of it would be identical to a 2D sprite based engine.

Technically, RA2 was in 3d because it incorporated sloped surfaces (and rendered these sloped surfaces as three dimentional quads), but I'm more referring to the fact that if you are going to do a 'classical RTS', there are only two dimentions involved.

Every true-3d RTS game i've seen with 3d models as units, etc., looks worse than sprite-based RA2 units, it runs considerably worse, the camera rotation and control is often ridiculous... I'm not even sure how to word this. Once developers fully immerse the game in the extra dimensions, they want to add all kinds of fancy stuff, which ruins the game with overcomplication, i think.

Simplicity is key. When you want unit A (or squad A, for that matter) to go from one place to another, you don't want to manouver a camera, select, move camera, rotate, zoom, order the move.

I'm not really saying that "3d RTS games could never happen well", more that every implementation of them so far has been rubbish.

Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:13 am

DooMer wrote:Rise of Legends and AOE3. Everything else is shit.

Both of these look to be fucking awesome.
Anyone tried Act of War? I'm playing it a bit now, and it's nice-looking, but nothing really impressive gameplay-wise as of yet.

Post by **SOAPboy** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 10:18 am

Nightshade wrote:
DooMer wrote:Rise of Legends and AOE3. Everything else is shit.
Both of these look to be fucking awesome.
Anyone tried Act of War? I'm playing it a bit now, and it's nice-looking, but nothing really impressive gameplay-wise as of yet.

Never gets any better either..

Post by **Eraser** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 11:52 am

glossy wrote:
Eraser wrote:
glossy wrote:I'm beginning to think that RTS games just weren't meant to ever be in three dimensions.

Generals was very, very average compared to RA2, RA and C&C. RA was RTS bliss.

It's all about the PPL FPS with the DirectX 9.0 Shader somethingwhatsits, and the divorce-your-wife-drop-out-of-school MMORPGs.

What happed to "I have half an hour before class, quick skirmish time" ?
I don't think either one has anything to do with each other.

An RTS can have great gameplay with great graphics. If a FPS focuses only on graphics and neglets gameplay, then that game will be no fun to play either.

The transition to 3D in RTSes is not a bad thing IMO, as long as the camera isn't free roaming and all you can do is rotate the battlefield and zoom in/out.

Saying that RTSes aren't meant for 3D is nonsense. If you coded a 3D engine but made it so that the camera is always fixed in the same position, the feeling of it would be identical to a 2D sprite based engine.
Technically, RA2 was in 3d because it incorporated sloped surfaces (and rendered these sloped surfaces as three dimentional quads), but I'm more referring to the fact that if you are going to do a 'classical RTS', there are only two dimentions involved.

Every true-3d RTS game i've seen with 3d models as units, etc., looks worse than sprite-based RA2 units, it runs considerably worse, the camera rotation and control is often ridiculous... I'm not even sure how to word this. Once developers fully immerse the game in the extra dimensions, they want to add all kinds of fancy stuff, which ruins the game with overcomplication, i think.

Simplicity is key. When you want unit A (or squad A, for that matter) to go from one place to another, you don't want to manouver a camera, select, move camera, rotate, zoom, order the move.

I'm not really saying that "3d RTS games could never happen well", more that every implementation of them so far has been rubbish.

You should try Dawn of War. It's fully 3D but you can leave the camera in the default spot and you won't miss out on anything. The grahpics are fantastic, the units look brutal and if something explodes... well, the sight of those explosions make you feel them in your stomach, they're that intense.

Gameplay is brought back to simple basics. You can really focus on the action.

The single player campaign is a bit pants and very short, but skirmishes against the AI are great, but it truely shines when you play with or against friends.

Post by **Mr.Magnetichead** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:10 pm

Memphis wrote:Dawn of War is cracking

And winter assault is out soon.

Post by **Nightshade** » Fri Sep 02, 2005 12:18 pm

SOAPboy wrote:
Nightshade wrote:
DooMer wrote:Rise of Legends and AOE3. Everything else is shit.
Both of these look to be fucking awesome.
Anyone tried Act of War? I'm playing it a bit now, and it's nice-looking, but nothing really impressive gameplay-wise as of yet.
Never gets any better either..

I think I'll just ditch it.

Played Ground Control II?