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menkent
menkent
menkent
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 11:34 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


and 95% of the newbies will jump ship for the next sims game the moment it comes out. they're not community, they're voiceless sheep on ffa servers. the pro community shouldn't be happy until it's legitimately good (bugs fixed), because everyone else is just going to want more space maps. being the "least bad" game doesn't lead to a stable community or good competition.
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Foo
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 01:16 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


bla bla.

If you feel this way, there's absolutely no reason for any 'competitive' players to move to Quake 4, right? Just stick with Q3. I mean there's years of development, and you don't care about the 'sheep' who will form the majority of players in this new game, so no reason to move.

Actually I'm a little confused why the people 'with voices' moved from Q1. Isn't that a little, I dunno, hypocritical?



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menkent
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 01:35 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


nonsense... though a lot of people from quakeworld stayed there through the 2-year reign of q2, q3 was a better mp platform than either quakeworld or q2 even after they were modded. q4 (modded) could be as much better than q3osp as q3 is better than q2. i'm just saying i hope they put enough effort into developing the pc side of q4 to keep people interested enough to bother making a community that lasts as long as q3's did. nobody's sticking qith q3 because it's already dead, but i'd like q4 to last another six years rather than disappearing after one tourney like doom3.
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Azer
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 03:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quake 4 owns, just need brightskins and a few more good maps and we are set
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menkent
menkent
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 03:14 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i trust the azer :icon14:
all i need is the demo to be released so i can make sure i get more than 20fps :p
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Zyte
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 03:23 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


should be ok. azer said he had constant fps @ 9800 pro using tweaked cfg, despite some drops when facing multiple enemies.

just buy it menk, like i'm gonna do. it may not be wise, but at least i can say i followed my heart :lub:
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Foo
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 03:27 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


menkent wrote:
nonsense... though a lot of people from quakeworld stayed there through the 2-year reign of q2, q3 was a better mp platform than either quakeworld or q2 even after they were modded. q4 (modded) could be as much better than q3osp as q3 is better than q2. i'm just saying i hope they put enough effort into developing the pc side of q4 to keep people interested enough to bother making a community that lasts as long as q3's did. nobody's sticking qith q3 because it's already dead, but i'd like q4 to last another six years rather than disappearing after one tourney like doom3.


The point I'm making is that since Q3 is open source, and mods have already been heavilty developed, I don't see why Quake 4 needs to be looked at by the competitive community... I mean sure, hundreds of man hours could be poured into Quake 4 to get to a point where it's equal to Quake 3 for comp play, but then you could equally spend those hundreds of hours on Quake 3 and take it to the next level of whatever it is competitive players want.

Also, if Q3 is 'already dead', yet as you say 'FUCK the casual player', where are the competitive players right now? Have they gone along with the sheep onto other games, or have they stuck with the best platform for competitive gaming, which after all the modding/levels, is Q3...

You must be able to see the odd inconsistency I'm trying to get at here. Sorry I can't put it very plainly. I see some of your points, but am still left with this difference between what you're saying (casual players don't matter to the competitive community) and the reality (the competitive community follows new games, not the ones that are best suited for them).



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menkent
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 05:51 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a lot of competetive players got old and don't have time to play anymore, or as much as they could in high school. others have moved to games that are getting tourneys (with prizes)... and the tourneys aren't there because the games are good (*cough*pk*cough*), but the new games get the sponsors and the support of the production companies. id wants to sell new games, not cater to a bunch of people that bought a game back in the 90's. sponsors, particularly the hardware companies like nvidia, will only sponsor things that show off their new $500 cards. q3 lasted incredibly long considering it lost this big-money support as long as three years ago when wcg dropped it. hell, even qcon only had a girls' comp this year.

q4 will sell a gazillion copies, everyone will be fanboyish about it, cpl will use it until someone pays angel to use something else, etc. that's the way it works, and that's fine. i'd just like to see this game be <i>great</i> instead of just better than the latest steaming pile of UT, and it seems to me like they over-emphasized the xbox360 and pc single-player given the insane piles of cash blizzard is making with WoW compared with the standard profit a company expects from moving boxes through Best Buy. it's like they've failed to realize that the optimal business model has changed and we're getting A- work because of it.
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cK-r1r
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PostPosted: 10-19-2005 08:18 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I'll be around.
emplate and I are suppose to lan for a week or weekend, whichever it happens to become.
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Zyte
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PostPosted: 10-20-2005 03:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


menkent, with some editing q4 rocks, trustme. Only thing i dislike are the usual things, no brightskins, limited fov to 110, also the movement is sometimes a bit tricky.
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Foo
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PostPosted: 10-20-2005 06:31 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


menkent wrote:
a lot of competetive players got old and don't have time to play anymore, or as much as they could in high school. others have moved to games that are getting tourneys (with prizes)... and the tourneys aren't there because the games are good (*cough*pk*cough*), but the new games get the sponsors and the support of the production companies. id wants to sell new games, not cater to a bunch of people that bought a game back in the 90's. sponsors, particularly the hardware companies like nvidia, will only sponsor things that show off their new $500 cards. q3 lasted incredibly long considering it lost this big-money support as long as three years ago when wcg dropped it. hell, even qcon only had a girls' comp this year.

q4 will sell a gazillion copies, everyone will be fanboyish about it, cpl will use it until someone pays angel to use something else, etc. that's the way it works, and that's fine. i'd just like to see this game be <i>great</i> instead of just better than the latest steaming pile of UT, and it seems to me like they over-emphasized the xbox360 and pc single-player given the insane piles of cash blizzard is making with WoW compared with the standard profit a company expects from moving boxes through Best Buy. it's like they've failed to realize that the optimal business model has changed and we're getting A- work because of it.


Alright cool, that's making a lot more sense :)

I still don't see competition money as a valid reason - after all there's only ever enough for a handful of people to get it and the majority of comp players never see any. But points taken. Thanks for explaining.



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menkent
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PostPosted: 10-20-2005 06:37 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


the feedback on places like cached.net has been pretty positive... some minor complaints about cvars and weapons that can easily be fixed in a PR or mod. more ominous complaints about the movement and maps being "like UT" sound like the kind of thing that'd get on my nerves too, but maps will happen within a month or so and mods can adjust movement.

the feedback is universally better than d3, so i'll shut up and start saving for a 6800... and a new cpu/mobo. fuck :(
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RooKie
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PostPosted: 10-23-2005 03:10 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


sorry to but in the conversation so late :P i think quake 4 look a bit to similar to ut2k4, dont you think ? im just going to stick to q3 for the moment.



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Eraser
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PostPosted: 10-24-2005 11:39 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


menkent, after playing Q4 myself I'd say in it's plain form it's a far better MP platform than Quake 3. It adds a slew of new features that have been added to Q3 by mods like OSP. An OSP-like mod for Quake 4 should bring Q4 up to the level where it's excellent for competitive play.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 10-24-2005 11:43 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


RooKie wrote:
sorry to but in the conversation so late :P i think quake 4 look a bit to similar to ut2k4, dont you think ? im just going to stick to q3 for the moment.


Well I'm not too sure about the UT2k4 comparison. Yes, the Rocket Launcher looks like a straight rip from the UT2k4 Rocket Launcher, but it feels and handles completely different. Some of the maps might look a tad UT2k4-ish, but I think there's a good amount of maps that look and feel very Quake like.

Another thing is that while people make the UT2k4 comparison, they do this because it's the "direct" competitor for Quake 4. It has always been Quake versus Unreal. What people seem to miss is similarities to other games from Raven Software.

Some maps and weapons (like the Hyperblaster) remind me very much of Elite Force (which had quite solid multiplayer as well). The Shotgun actually reminds me of Soldier of Fortune (SoF2 had great multiplayer too)

So in some areas I think Quake 4 is more than just a blend of the previous Quake games.
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Deji
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PostPosted: 10-26-2005 01:06 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Though I already have a good level at Q3 onto which I could build my Q4 game on, I probably won't too intensively. My machine can't really handle it at acceptable framerates plus I neither have the time nor the desire to play 3-4 hours a day to get to the top.
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DRuM
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PostPosted: 10-26-2005 11:09 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


That's a shame deji, you'd own at Q4.
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Eraser
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PostPosted: 10-27-2005 01:32 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Deji wrote:
I neither have the time nor the desire to play 3-4 hours a day to get to the top.


You don't have to. You could actually play a couple of times a week just for fun. Strange concept, isn't it?
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Deji
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PostPosted: 10-27-2005 02:03 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Deji wrote:
I probably won't too intensively.


Eraser wrote:
You don't have to. You could actually play a couple of times a week just for fun. Strange concept, isn't it?


Also true. Though the fact remains that there is fun to be had from competing and winning, it's just a different kind of fun. Once you experience it a couple of times, there's no going back :P
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