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Topic: The texture on my model(s) don't show up in GTKRadiant?

CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 07:30 AM

I've been trying all day to get this darn thing to work. I've tried .MD3, .3DS, .OBJ, and .ASE as well as 3 different 3DS Max programs.

As far as I'm aware both my model and texture are in the right directory but i just get "NO SHADER" in Radiant.

Do i really need to make a shader? I'm guessing that it's kinda like Hammer where brushes are effected differently to props. So if possible I'd like to know what I'm doing wrong, heck I've tried Radiant 1.4-1.6 and all yield the same results. Maybe I'm using the wrong file format (i was told to use .TGA but I'm not even sure if that's okay on this engine)

So to summarize, this is the procedure i use:

Make simple model in 3DS Max
UVW unwrap it
Render to texture, save texture in the correct folder then apply said texture to model.
Export as .3DS
Load into Radiant.

Thanks!

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-29-2014 07:41 AM

The texture path is largely ignored, it's the texture name that points to the texture that you are using...

Try this, scroll down about halfway on the page.

If you have the ASE file, it may be easier to open it up in a text editor and edit the values.

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 07:59 AM

obsidian wrote:
The texture path is largely ignored, it's the texture name that points to the texture that you are using...

Try this, scroll down about halfway on the page.

If you have the ASE file, it may be easier to open it up in a text editor and edit the values.

Hey thanks but I've pretty much tried all of that (been using 3DS Max for 9 years lol.)

When i import as .ASE the model is just black, .3DS and it's "No Shader Found"

It's just a simple box that I'm working with as a "test dummy" so it's not like it's that complicated xD

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-29-2014 08:07 AM

Got a copy of the .ASE model?

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 08:08 AM

obsidian wrote:
Got a copy of the .ASE model?

I can get one yes but is this like Hammer (Source Engine) where every single texture, especially for models, needs to have a shader file (or .VMT as it's known on Source) or it wont work?

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-29-2014 08:18 AM

No it does not have to have a shader file, but the name of the texture has to be the same as if you had a shader file, for example, "models/mapobjects/mymodels/mytexture".

If you open the ASE file in a text editor, you should see values for:
MATERIAL_NAME
MAP_NAME
*BITMAP

These values should match the texture/shader name as listed above.

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 08:20 AM

obsidian wrote:
No it does not have to have a shader file, but the name of the texture has to be the same as if you had a shader file, for example, "models/mapobjects/mymodels/mytexture".

If you open the ASE file in a text editor, you should see values for:
MATERIAL_NAME
MAP_NAME
BITMAP

These values should match the texture/shader name as listed above.

They do match but under "BITMAP" it shows the entire path but for the others it's just the directory:
"models/mapobjects/mymodels/mytexture"

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-29-2014 09:06 AM

Maybe provide the ASE file and texture so we can see what's going on?

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 09:13 AM

obsidian wrote:
Maybe provide the ASE file and texture so we can see what's going on?

Here are the files..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl2pkoy3dxn5lr3/MyModels.rar

It's a very simple box but, as i said, i just want to get the silly thing working at the moment lol

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Bacon
visual prowess

Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1254

Posted: 04-29-2014 12:32 PM

After experementing with several combinations here's my findings on ASE models

MATERIAL_NAME can either be a direct path to a UV image, and if you do this you must use backslashes. If you are going to be using a shader (which is still using the UV image), you need to use forward slashes, and omit the extension. So:

No shader: textures\blabla\texture.jpg (or tga)
With a shader: textures/blabla/texture (same as the shader files line)

MAP_NAME and BITMAP don't seem to matter what you use if you are using a shader.. If you aren't using a shader you need to fill these lines in, using backslashes. I have tested this over a dozen times and changing these two lines does not do anything to the model in quake, if you use a shader.. I even deleted these 2 lines so they were like this:

MATERIAL_NAME "textures/blabla/shadername"
MAP_NAME ""
BITMAP ""

And the model loads perfectly fine.

So with no shader you still need:

MATERIAL_NAME "textures\blabla\texture.jpg"
MAP_NAME "textures\blabla\texture.jpg" (this line can also just be texture.jpg with no path)
*BITMAP "textures\blabla\texture.jpg"

This is after 2 or so days of playing with them and testing it, in 1.32c vanilla quake (not ioquake3)

Hope that helps.

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 12:39 PM

Bacon wrote:
After experementing with several combinations here's my findings on ASE models

MATERIAL_NAME can either be a direct path to a UV image, and if you do this you must use backslashes. If you are going to be using a shader (which is still using the UV image), you need to use forward slashes, and omit the extension. So:

No shader: textures\blabla\texture.jpg (or tga)
With a shader: textures/blabla/texture (same as the shader files line)

MAP_NAME and BITMAP don't seem to matter what you use if you are using a shader.. If you aren't using a shader you need to fill these lines in, using backslashes. I have tested this over a dozen times and changing these two lines does not do anything to the model in quake, if you use a shader.. I even deleted these 2 lines so they were like this:

MATERIAL_NAME "textures/blabla/shadername"
MAP_NAME ""
BITMAP ""

And the model loads perfectly fine.

So with no shader you still need:

MATERIAL_NAME "textures\blabla\texture.jpg"
MAP_NAME "textures\blabla\texture.jpg" (this line can also just be texture.jpg with no path)
BITMAP "textures\blabla\texture.jpg"

This is after 2 or so days of playing with them and testing it, in 1.32c vanilla quake (not ioquake3)

Hope that helps.

Well I'd prefer to use .3DS to be honest. Did you do this using 3DS Max?

Still comes out black in Radiant:

MATERIAL_LIST {
MATERIAL_COUNT 1
MATERIAL 0 {
MATERIAL_NAME "models\mapobjects\mymodels\boxtest.jpg"
MATERIAL_CLASS "Standard"
MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.5882 0.5882 0.5882
MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.5882 0.5882 0.5882
MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.9000 0.9000 0.9000
MATERIAL_SHINE 0.1000
MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.0000
MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0000
MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0000
MATERIAL_SHADING Blinn
MATERIAL_XP_FALLOFF 0.0000
MATERIAL_SELFILLUM 0.0000
MATERIAL_FALLOFF In
MATERIAL_XP_TYPE Filter
MAP_DIFFUSE {
MAP_NAME "boxtest.jpg"
MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"
MAP_SUBNO 1
MAP_AMOUNT 1.0000
BITMAP "models\mapobjects\mymodels\boxtest.jpg"
MAP_TYPE Screen
UVW_U_OFFSET 0.0000
UVW_V_OFFSET 0.0000
UVW_U_TILING 1.0000
UVW_V_TILING 1.0000
UVW_ANGLE 0.0000
UVW_BLUR 1.0000
UVW_BLUR_OFFSET 0.0000
UVW_NOUSE_AMT 1.0000
UVW_NOISE_SIZE 1.0000
UVW_NOISE_LEVEL 1
UVW_NOISE_PHASE 0.0000
*BITMAP_FILTER Pyramidal

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-29-2014 12:48 PM

The problem is that it varies depending on versions of GtkRadiant...

GtkRadiant 1.4/1.6 reads the MATERIAL_NAME value.
GtkRadiant 1.5 reads the BITMAP value.
IIRC, Q3Map2 reads the BITMAP value when looking for shaders.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-29-2014 12:51 PM

CaptainCrazy wrote:
Heya! Do you even know the directory in which the model and texture go? I mean i just looked through mine and i don't even have it but then again i did re-install it in case i did something wrong.

Models and model textures should go in "models/mapobjects/yourmodelfolder/"

BTW... don't PM people for questions like this, just post the question in your thread.

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 12:54 PM

obsidian wrote:
CaptainCrazy wrote:
Heya! Do you even know the directory in which the model and texture go? I mean i just looked through mine and i don't even have it but then again i did re-install it in case i did something wrong.

Models and model textures should go in "models/mapobjects/yourmodelfolder/"

BTW... don't PM people for questions like this, just post the question in your thread.

Yeh that's what i thought and it IS in there.. Don't want to have to use a different version of Radiant though

Sorry that i PM'd you, i said I'd be half an hour but was much longer so didn't want to be wasting your time xD

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Bacon
visual prowess

Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1254

Posted: 04-29-2014 01:56 PM

obsidian wrote:
The problem is that it varies depending on versions of GtkRadiant...

GtkRadiant 1.4/1.6 reads the MATERIAL_NAME value.
GtkRadiant 1.5 reads the BITMAP value.

I never knew that. Why is 1.5 so much different than the other versions? Different people working on it?

As for what q3map2 uses, it must be different between versions as well because this:

Code:
MATERIAL_LIST {
MATERIAL_COUNT 1
MATERIAL 0 {
   MATERIAL_NAME "textures/bacon/5C4C2F40_c_shinelight"
   MATERIAL_CLASS "Multi/Sub-Object"
   MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.2734 0.3945 0.4961
   MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SHINE 0.0020
   MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.5000
   MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0000
   MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0000
   MATERIAL_SHADING Cooktorr
   MATERIAL_XP_FALLOFF 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SELFILLUM 0.0000
   MATERIAL_FALLOFF In
   MATERIAL_XP_TYPE Filter
   NUMSUBMTLS 2196
   SUBMATERIAL 0 {
   MATERIAL_NAME "textures/bacon/5C4C2F40_c_shinelight"
   MATERIAL_CLASS "Standard"
   MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.2734 0.3945 0.4961
   MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SHINE 0.0020
   MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.5000
   MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0000
   MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0000
   MATERIAL_SHADING Cooktorr
   MATERIAL_XP_FALLOFF 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SELFILLUM 0.0000
   MATERIAL_FALLOFF In
   MATERIAL_XP_TYPE Filter
   MAP_DIFFUSE {
      MAP_NAME "" // Used to be 5C4C2F40_c.jpg.012 but works without it
      MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"
      MAP_SUBNO 1
      MAP_AMOUNT 1.0000
      BITMAP "" // Used to be textures\bacon\5C4C2F40_c.jpg.012 but works without it
      MAP_TYPE Screen
      UVW_U_OFFSET 0.0000
      UVW_V_OFFSET 0.0000
      UVW_U_TILING 1.0000
      UVW_V_TILING 1.0000
      UVW_ANGLE 0.0000
      UVW_BLUR 1.0000
      UVW_BLUR_OFFSET 0.0000
      UVW_NOUSE_AMT 1.0000
      UVW_NOISE_SIZE 1.0000
      UVW_NOISE_LEVEL 1
      UVW_NOISE_PHASE 0.0000
      BITMAP_FILTER Pyramidal
   }
   }

Compiled with q3map2 2.5.16, this shows the texture properly and emits light (done with the shader of course). I'm using 1 material with several sub-materials so i'm not sure if that matters. I guess this game is just a mess.

Edit:CaptainCrazy, I opened your 3ds and ase in blender and its not properly uv mapped in there either, so mabye your exporter is messed. (Unless its supposed to be a solid green cube with no black edging?)

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Last edited by Bacon on 04-29-2014 02:11 PM, edited 1 time in total.

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 02:09 PM

Bacon wrote:
obsidian wrote:
The problem is that it varies depending on versions of GtkRadiant...

GtkRadiant 1.4/1.6 reads the MATERIAL_NAME value.
GtkRadiant 1.5 reads the BITMAP value.

I never knew that. Why is 1.5 so much different than the other versions? Different people working on it?

As for what q3map2 uses, it must be different between versions as well because this:

Code:
MATERIAL_LIST {
MATERIAL_COUNT 1
MATERIAL 0 {
   MATERIAL_NAME "textures/bacon/5C4C2F40_c_shinelight"
   MATERIAL_CLASS "Multi/Sub-Object"
   MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.2734 0.3945 0.4961
   MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SHINE 0.0020
   MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.5000
   MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0000
   MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0000
   MATERIAL_SHADING Cooktorr
   MATERIAL_XP_FALLOFF 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SELFILLUM 0.0000
   MATERIAL_FALLOFF In
   MATERIAL_XP_TYPE Filter
   NUMSUBMTLS 2196
   SUBMATERIAL 0 {
   MATERIAL_NAME "textures/bacon/5C4C2F40_c_shinelight"
   MATERIAL_CLASS "Standard"
   MATERIAL_AMBIENT 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_DIFFUSE 0.2734 0.3945 0.4961
   MATERIAL_SPECULAR 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SHINE 0.0020
   MATERIAL_SHINESTRENGTH 0.5000
   MATERIAL_TRANSPARENCY 0.0000
   MATERIAL_WIRESIZE 1.0000
   MATERIAL_SHADING Cooktorr
   MATERIAL_XP_FALLOFF 0.0000
   MATERIAL_SELFILLUM 0.0000
   MATERIAL_FALLOFF In
   MATERIAL_XP_TYPE Filter
   MAP_DIFFUSE {
      MAP_NAME "" // Used to be 5C4C2F40_c.jpg.012 but works without it
      MAP_CLASS "Bitmap"
      MAP_SUBNO 1
      MAP_AMOUNT 1.0000
      BITMAP "" // Used to be textures\bacon\5C4C2F40_c.jpg.012 but works without it
      MAP_TYPE Screen
      UVW_U_OFFSET 0.0000
      UVW_V_OFFSET 0.0000
      UVW_U_TILING 1.0000
      UVW_V_TILING 1.0000
      UVW_ANGLE 0.0000
      UVW_BLUR 1.0000
      UVW_BLUR_OFFSET 0.0000
      UVW_NOUSE_AMT 1.0000
      UVW_NOISE_SIZE 1.0000
      UVW_NOISE_LEVEL 1
      UVW_NOISE_PHASE 0.0000
      BITMAP_FILTER Pyramidal
   }
   }

Compiled with q3map2 2.5.16, this shows the texture properly and emits light (done with the shader of course). I'm using 1 material with several sub-materials so i'm not sure if that matters. I guess this game is just a mess.

Edit:CaptainCrazy, I opened your 3ds and ase in blender and its not properly uv mapped in there either, so mabye your exporter is messed.

The problem is that i noticed it doesn't work for a few games..

I've tried this and also Jedi Academy and it doesn't work for either yet both use the same engine and both use GTKRadiant.

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Bacon
visual prowess

Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1254

Posted: 04-29-2014 02:15 PM

Well something I noticed but I have no idea if it matters or not but there's a lot of places in your ase model where instead of single spacing in between numbers and co-ordinates, there's random tab sized spaces everywhere.

boxtest:

Code:
SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

in any working models I have:

Code:
SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

not sure if spaces that big mess up the model but who knows. Its like that everywhere. It probably doesnt matter, but who knows, python for example takes spacing into consideration.

Is your cube supposed to be solid green?

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-29-2014 02:18 PM

Bacon wrote:
Well something I noticed but I have no idea if it matters or not but there's a lot of places in your ase model where instead of single spacing in between numbers and co-ordinates, there's random tab sized spaces everywhere.

boxtest:

Code:
SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

in any working models I have:

Code:
SCENE_AMBIENT_STATIC 0.0000 0.0000 0.0000

not sure if spaces that big mess up the model but who knows. Its like that everywhere. It probably doesnt matter, but who knows, python for example takes spacing into consideration.

Is your cube supposed to be solid green?

Have you tried to load the model i sent, into Radiant? Yes it's supposed to be solid green but it should have indentations.. Not just a cube =/

Been working on this for like 10 hours now xD

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Bacon
visual prowess

Joined: 30 Jul 2004
Posts: 1254

Posted: 04-29-2014 02:24 PM

Ok so I got the 3ds to load with the texture in radiant by placing boxtest.jpg into baseq3 (not inside any folder). I tried this because inside notepad in the 3ds file, boxtest.jpg has no path behind it, so it's looking in baseq3 i guess ("/") Check your 3ds exporter and make sure you change the paths to where you want the texture.

ASE exporter is probably screwed or something. I just exported the cube from blender to ase and its not black either.

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-29-2014 08:41 PM

Bacon wrote:
I never knew that. Why is 1.5 so much different than the other versions? Different people working on it?

TTimo was the guy in charge for much of GtkRadiant's development while he was working at id Software, carrying it up to 1.4. GtkRadiant 1.5 was started by SPoG as a personal project to learn more about programming and he made some vast changes since he wrote much of the program from scratch. 1.5 then branched off into NetRadiant and that's about as far as development went for that. There are certainly good features in 1.5, but it was a bit of an oddball, and apparently a bit messy on the code side since it started as a learning experience for SPoG, so when id Software started ZeroRadiant internally for Quake Live (or Quake Zero at the time) they picked it up from 1.4. Since then TTimo revived the project from ZeroRadiant and put the source on GitHub as GtkRadiant 1.6. There are of course, numerous other contributors for both code and game assets, so putting it all up on GitHub made a lot of sense. Since then, there have been many improvements, new features and tighter support for a smaller subset of games with active communities.

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CaptainCrazy
Gibblet

Joined: 29 Apr 2014
Posts: 12

Posted: 04-30-2014 01:23 AM

Manged to get it working!

Apparently, when using .MD3, if you don't leave the UVW Unwrap modifier on the stack then that stops it from working. I merely left the modifier on the models stack, exported it as .MD3 and it works fine now

Funny how one little thing, that you wouldn't even think about, can cause such chaos xD

I guess older engines just require that you leave the UVW Unwrap on it before exporting lol.

NOW i just need to work out how to make it so that GTKRadiant and the game detects my custom collision model. I think i did it before but i forgot how xD

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obsidian
I'm the dude!

Joined: 04 Feb 2002
Posts: 12498

Posted: 04-30-2014 07:59 AM

CaptainCrazy wrote:
I guess older engines just require that you leave the UVW Unwrap on it before exporting lol.

That has nothing to do with the engine, but whatever export plugin you're using to export to .md3. The stack is only saved in .max files, once you've exported it to MD3 or ASE or whatever, it no longer exists. I guess the export plugin you're using is still looking for the modifier and doesn't know what to do with a collapsed stack.

I have always exported to ASE and then used Q3Data.exe to convert to MD3 if required.

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Theftbot
Theftbot

Joined: 07 Oct 2009
Posts: 483

Posted: 04-30-2014 09:41 AM

Models can get textures/shaders from the reg. textures too!

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Quake3World.com | Forum Index | Level Editing & Modeling

The texture path is largely ignored, it's the texture name that points to the texture that you are using...Try this, scroll down about halfway on the page.If you have the ASE file, it may be easier to open it up in a text editor and edit the values.

Got a copy of the .ASE model?

obsidian wrote:Got a copy of the .ASE model?I can get one yes but is this like Hammer (Source Engine) where every single texture, especially for models, needs to have a shader file (or .VMT as it's known on Source) or it wont work?

Maybe provide the ASE file and texture so we can see what's going on?

obsidian wrote:Maybe provide the ASE file and texture so we can see what's going on?Here are the files..https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl2pkoy3dxn5lr3/MyModels.rarIt's a very simple box but, as i said, i just want to get the silly thing working at the moment lol

The problem is that it varies depending on versions of GtkRadiant...GtkRadiant 1.4/1.6 reads the MATERIAL_NAME value.GtkRadiant 1.5 reads the BITMAP value.IIRC, Q3Map2 reads the BITMAP value when looking for shaders.

Models can get textures/shaders from the reg. textures too!

The texture path is largely ignored, it's the texture name that points to the texture that you are using...

Try this, scroll down about halfway on the page.

If you have the ASE file, it may be easier to open it up in a text editor and edit the values.

obsidian wrote:
Got a copy of the .ASE model?

I can get one yes but is this like Hammer (Source Engine) where every single texture, especially for models, needs to have a shader file (or .VMT as it's known on Source) or it wont work?

obsidian wrote:
Maybe provide the ASE file and texture so we can see what's going on?

Here are the files..

https://www.dropbox.com/s/vl2pkoy3dxn5lr3/MyModels.rar

It's a very simple box but, as i said, i just want to get the silly thing working at the moment lol

The problem is that it varies depending on versions of GtkRadiant...

GtkRadiant 1.4/1.6 reads the MATERIAL_NAME value.
GtkRadiant 1.5 reads the BITMAP value.
IIRC, Q3Map2 reads the BITMAP value when looking for shaders.