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surfaceparm nomarks
surfaceparm nomarks
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PostPosted: 07-26-2012 03:52 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Here is the map I'm making for the msg competition #4. I'd be happy about all kinds of feedback.

BETA I



- Download (27.6mb)
- Competition forum thread

HF!



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PostPosted: 07-27-2012 12:40 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


First off I love the "Wild West" style and look. Just a quick note (nitpicking mostly), will look at the map in more detail later:

  • Your "voltage dials" look nice (at LG ammo), really like how they give the map that tiny bit of "old" technology:
    • I'd slow down the rotation of those dials by 50%, to give them less of a frantic feel. Presently the dials almost distract in the otherwise calm map. This is probably not possible, but if a dial could "slow-stutter" around a certain value (left, right, and left again, as if values were following a sinus curse, fluctuating).
    • Might be nifty to have some sound attached to them.
    • Personally I'd only use those dials on the lower floor (at LG ammo), to make them extra especial, and remove them up at the RL (above RA), where they seem out of place anyway. (I mean context-wise... on the lower floor they look like they are part of some tech to check for power, due to the metal plate on the wall that also suggests more power-related cables (maybe add 2-3 cables here), on the upper floor, IMO, they look like glued-on deco.)
  • The "Löschwasserentnahmestelle" sign is nifty. It would be good to maybe add a cylindrical water silo up here, with a pointed roof (patches both), some dripping water, and some pipe/faucet to give the sign some sense. Then add some dripping sound. You might remember all those wind-mill-like water pumps they have on most farms, something like that up here near the silo... would also motivate having a "fan-like" thing up near the sky.
  • The slowly rotating ventilator up here could use some sound. In AEdm7 I am using a rotating/grating sound for the fan in the corner of the RL arena, take a look at the PK3 and if you like use that sound (freesounds.org), should add some nice rusty western ambiance.

Did not look at the rest of the map yet. Will give more detailed feedback, especially about layout and gameplay with bots later. Anyway the only tips we seem to be able to give you are ambiance, and little design ideas since you otherwise obviously know what you are doing :).

Hope this map plays well, because I really like all the clever wood-work.




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PostPosted: 07-27-2012 04:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Some more thoughts:
  • The texture on one of the rotated the tiles near the YA is offset. I did that a while bac., I would very much suggest you create a ASE brush-derived model for that tile, letting you angle them all over the place, e.g. place a few again a wall and the like, without ever having to think about alignment again. I know that 1.5 sometimes gets it right, i.e. rotating brushes with locked textures but v1.4 does not.
  • The slightly further from the TP away placed cable-drum seems to be floating on the left side. Not literally, but it's shadow suggests so. Try to maybe angle is oh so slightly into the ground suggesting it sunk slightly. That should fix it.
  • It might be a nice thing to create your own teleport model, again maybe using ASE brushes. Presently I have no idea what would work, but some wooden frame with some form of low-tech thing. An orange transparent animated "default" texture, might also fit, the orange I mean, it should look aged though not so new and techy. Depending on how you do it, you might actually save many tris, compared to the standard teleporter model. Maybe using some criss-crossing metal framework you are using for all those beams.
  • The stairs leading up to above the TP (not the first flight to the MH), the top-most step texture looks cut off, IMO, maybe make the last step that is directly bound by the grey metal up there a bit wider. Or leave some gap (2-3u max), brush-wise between step and rest of the floor.
  • Not sure about how r_speeds are handled today, but in one corner I am seeing 17K, and several others 15K due to the open nature and detail in the map. Hinting will be quite difficult, though should help slightly. Then again on today's hardware it might be irrelevant, you do not feel any slowdown.
  • I'd replace the pentagram lights, with something else. They do not fit the map, they do in colour, but not as symbols, IMO.
  • Noted that all your signs (e.g. "no strogs") are two-sided. Not sure this needs fixing... just mentioning.
  • I only tested a little bit, but most of your wooden beams along the walls will need to be clipped.
  • r_showtris shows that e.g. your stairs are using a *lot* of tris. The lines actually look artistic, but I think they could be build and mitered to use quite a few less. (Sorry nitpicking again.)
  • Not sure you are planning this, but weapon spawn "icons" might be nice. In the style of your signs, like metal plates, you might create something for every weapon, decal as big as the floor tile I mentioned above. Some smokey - one for all - smudge would also be OK and nicely fit the map.
  • Since the theme is McSarge's and he sells rockets, a rocket model (abstract, all in rust) might be an interesting deco piece for one of the arenas. Maybe using chains to "pin" it up on the ceiling. Created out of a few patches. This is just in case you feel some "set piece" could be added.
  • The texture of the vertical JP (near SG) looks strange, technically it seems to be a decal. Since it has an gray edge it looks slightly off. Maybe use a round patch instead to reduce the amount of grey edge? Not sure how much time you want to spend, but personally I'd love if you used id's JP textures but re-textured them. E.g. all the lights and blinking is all the same and the shader as well, just a texture that looks more rusted, worn. Maybe Steampunk. This does make me think of fans instead of JPs to motivate how you get up somewhere would be better. AEdm7 and SolarAE both have that... not very original, but would IMO, fit a bit better the overall theme.
  • Your "to be banner signs" on chains look really nice. AFAICT you will need to add more banner areas right? I dread what it will do to the map. I really hope the competition lets folks "edit" the ad banner a bit to make them look "cooler".
  • Map could maybe use more respawn points. With 2 bots I kept having them respawn next to me... or so it felt.
  • This is just me, but the combo: GL, RA, PG is too close IMO. Personally I'd drop the LG and put the GL where the LG used to be, to grenade down into the TP arena, might make sense.
  • RG placement is good, only found it very late into the game, noting Xaero that bastard had it. The RG was a lot less useful than normally... just a note.
  • The PG was the best spam weapon IMO, it really lets you mow down bots. Much more so than the two RLs. Was there any PG ammo in the map? If not one box would be appreciated.
  • Theme-wise the RL in the McSarge arena (the SG is there presently) might make some sense, though I have no idea if gameplay-wise. Or some RL ammo.
  • Not sure if how items should be moved for bots, but they do tend to loiter around the RA / PG a *lot*. Maybe placing the PG in the center of the arena, in front of the TP helps.
  • TP exit, a narrow plank to the other side, the bots seem to have invisible bot-clip here, might better motivate why the bots get across, since they do not jump.
  • Bots get confused on top of the cable barrels (next to the TP) trying to navigate your wooden beam edge there to get to the TP. Bit of clipping should fix that.
  • Alas the bots pretty much avoid the upper level of the map, some bot-only spawn points could help.

Overall you have nailed the design, and the theme, and the detail work everywhere is beautiful, a few areas look a bit empty, but you will come up with something. Gameflow was interesting, allowing for some clever paths... though that will require some more testing.

Hope that helps.

Update: Played against Daemia, Doom, and Klesk... IMO that played better in FFA. They better used the maps and weapons. All this for FFA... Tourney probably is a different matter.




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Grunt
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PostPosted: 07-28-2012 02:04 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


interesting map

But what about ct3ctf4_a3 ?




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PostPosted: 07-28-2012 02:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I seem to have played over 400 frags in the map now, and noted a few more things that might be tweaked:

  • You added a mining cart three times to the map, at the TP, above the YA and above the RA. These have double-wheels made of patches. Since you cannot see the inner wheels above the YA and RA these are "technically" overdraw and wasted polygons. In the latter two cases I'd just make the narrow wheel full width, thus saving 8 wheels total.
  • Above the TP, on the level of the TP exit, you can jump down from the platform to reach the LG, I often slip on the slanted roof just above the TP, and then miss getting to the LG. Is this an intended skill test? If not maybe something can be done to make it easier to get to the LG from above.
  • From the upper RL, around the corner is a grated floor, if you look down (presently you are above the PG), you will see a 25H on a ledge. Please clip the wall area above this ledge, I keep jumping to a wooden beam above the 25H and the miss the lower ledge with the health altogether. Just mentioning this, in case this is not intended.
  • I tested the map in FFA with several other bots, Anarki, Major, Sarge, Daemia, Phobos all work pretty well. Personally I hate having Xaero in the map. These other bots play different part of the map well. The biggest issue (bot-wise) is that many upper level areas of the map are not used by the bots much. E.g. RG, the RL ammo on the same level above the TP arena. Maybe with more clipping this will improve, since I did see several bots get stuck and stutter.
  • In FFA 3 or even 4 bots are fine, IMO. You might like to up the number from two.
  • The jumppads are another thing the bots seem to avoid. Strange. I think I saw a bot take the angled JP to the upper JP once only.




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PostPosted: 07-30-2012 12:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


A few things that might be possible to optimize, if that is needed:

  • There are a few roofs and the top edge of the mine carts, and the path they slide on that could be caulked, since AFAICT you will never be able to see those areas up there.
  • Some of the criss-cross brushwork, especially high up, between the LG and SG arena (surrounding a large tube, as seen from the LG) could probably be replaced with one texture without any visual impact, but many tris saved.
  • As an idea to simplify vis from the LG area looking towards the RA: If you pull the wall that separates the PG from the TP towards the 5H direction, extending it a bit, you could completely prohibit ever seeing into RA area from the LG. Not sure this is really worth it, with already good hinting in place, plus it probably messes up the pathing a bit.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 08-01-2012 01:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


AEon likes this map.




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Immortal
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PostPosted: 08-01-2012 11:17 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


one of the best playtesters there is around here.

gg AEon

Great map cityy. really digging the theme. gl in the comp :up:




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PostPosted: 08-02-2012 03:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


You guys could add some insights of your own you know ;)... I only play FFA, so if anyone out there has some insights in Tourney, that certainly would be interesting, IMO.




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Insane Quaker
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PostPosted: 08-03-2012 11:32 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I would but I've stopped playing. I think.




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surfaceparm nomarks
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PostPosted: 08-05-2012 10:01 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks guys, especially AEon. :D
Trying to put up a RC soon.





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Glayven?
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PostPosted: 08-06-2012 02:20 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I don't really have time to play it and give feedback, but the screenies are fucking ace. :up:




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PostPosted: 08-07-2012 07:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I experienced something the last time with Hipshot's maps. I look into the pk3 file to check what textures were actually used, and think to myself... "How in the world does one create anything of worth with those"... and then there is this map :)




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surfaceparm nomarks
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PostPosted: 08-08-2012 03:15 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks everyone, here is my RC!

RELEASE CANDIDATE

Download (73.6mb)



Feedback: Anything



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Immortal
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PostPosted: 08-08-2012 04:04 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


73 meg, holy carp! Well done getting it done. Why the massive file size for such a small map?




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surfaceparm nomarks
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PostPosted: 08-08-2012 04:10 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Thanks man! It's the 1024^2 textures and the custom sounds. :|



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PostPosted: 08-09-2012 01:06 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Quick notes:
  • Music made me smile... ambient sounds for wind and the bilds is neat.
  • Nifty new area behind the LG... the far side of the trolly can also be caulked.
  • The JPs take some getting used to... the shiny idea as a JP is unusual, but should be fine.

  • There is one big issue left though, and that is clipping:
    • RA JP, near the JP 25H
    • Lower RL corner into rock, there are 4-5 places here that could use clipping.
    • Upper level (above MH) near the RL ammo in wall
    • Almost very time there is some wooden beam extruding from a wall you can get snagged on them. Either clip the wall flat or add "triangles" to the let place slide past these wooden beams. Some indented grates also snag you.
    • I would recommend you actually slide along all walls in both directions at least once, to see where there are still problems with clipping.

Still need to play the map some... map looks great.

Update:
  • The black windows, above the PG, still look strange. Any form of dark, glass-like texture would be better than perfect black, IMO.
  • In the .arena
    Code:
    bots       "anarki kelsk doom"
    , "Klesk" has a typo.




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Immortal
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PostPosted: 08-09-2012 01:31 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Image

missing a base.

Image

so the ads are still full bright :/ plz release a version without ads.

*edit, the spectator mode it locked in geo




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