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Q3ct3 *alpha* https://www.quake3world.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=41612 |
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Author: | cityy [ 09-27-2009 04:41 AM ] |
Post subject: | Q3ct3 *alpha* |
I could finally convince myself to come up with an aplha version of my map q3ct3 - kosmos. There is not much detail yet - for now I'm wondering about the layout. Screenshot: Download: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3.zip I recommend to play the map in cpma, tourney. - cityy |
Author: | AEon [ 09-27-2009 05:51 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Please update your pk3 with all the missing files: Code: WARNING: could not find sound/misc/windfly.wav - using default trying textures/tech1soc_trim/032-15a.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_trim/s256-01c.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_wall/met_wall01d.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_floor/jp15a.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_wall/grill_wall10a.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_trim/s256-01a.TGA... trying textures/e7/e7brnmetal.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_trim/s256-02a.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_trim/s128-03a.TGA... trying textures/tech1soc_mach/panel40b.TGA... For better feedback |
Author: | cityy [ 09-27-2009 06:31 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
oops, those textures are actually in the pk3 - just forgott to sort them in the right folders :S |
Author: | cityy [ 09-27-2009 06:56 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Link updated: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3.zip Sorry for my fault |
Author: | AEon [ 09-27-2009 08:53 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
The "stray brush" is probably a trick jump, from the RL area you may be able to actually directly reach the RG opening. Only in vQ3 I don't seem to have the skill to do that (just noted the map is for CMPA, no wonder ). Some comments:
Before you add further details to the map, I'd suggest more work on the layout... deco can then be added more "permanently" once the gameflow is done. Hope this helps. |
Author: | cityy [ 09-27-2009 09:23 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
@ tehSandwich: As AEon mentioned below your post this stray brush is an alternative way to the RG. It will become some kind of lamp/torch later on. You may not find clip/caulk brushes anywhere since I'm currently on the layout of the map. Tho you've mentioned a lot of things that are wrong with the visual style of the map - gonna remember that later on. I'm not sure how I want to make the teleporter look like, maybe you got some suggestions?! @ AEon: My problem with adding a 3rd floor at this place is that the stairway would become very long and there would have to be another way up to the YA which would slow down IMO - tho, I'm gonna think about how to solve this.. I'm also not sure about the way to the RG - thought about some kind of hole through which you can drop down to RG. Anyway, I also like the idea that you have to duck since it doesn't make you that slow because of the slick brush at the entrance. Didn't notice that VQ3 boxes problem yet - only play the map in cpma. Will be fixed tho. Yes there is a bot clip, otherwise bots wont get up to the PG since they dont take the jump pad and the teleporter :/ No, he doesn't cheat there and there is no bot spawn either some time ago I spectated a bot duel on the map seeing xaero going for the RG the regular way, what tbh really surprised me! Uriel also goes for the RG as far as I noticed. I don't really get how you mean draping arround the MH!? You mean giving players another reason to use this corridor? Atm I thought about this corridor to be a good place to respawn since your have LG/RL/MH/YA right next to the spawn. I thought about that a lot - as you said it's just a tele jump in cpma and a single circle jump in vq3. Since tehSandwich has also mentioned it I'm pretty sure I'll add that planks/bridge. Quote: Before you add further details to the map, I'd suggest more work on the layout... That's what I will do, ty both helped a lot |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 09-27-2009 09:55 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
I just ran through this for about 15 minutes. I haven't actually played a game but here are some things I noticed. (A lot of these competitive tourney concepts are *VERY* new to me, so bear with me, and help me out by correcting me if you see a fault in my logic.) - The flow of this map seems like it should be a little more circular. The YA area by the LG (which is kind of a U-turn) is a great little example of what it feels like for me to run the whole map. You start somewhere near the core area (the MH), enter a branching pathway, get an item, and then come back to the center area after running some sort of semi-circle path. I agree with AEon that the map should drape around the MH more, and the "drapes" should flow with each other. Basically, try connecting all these little secondary loops more. Things will still focus around the MH without actually forcing players to constantly return to that area. - About the levels, I also agree with AEon. I was wondering why I was able to completely learn the layout after running two laps around it. Then I realized it's only two perfectly flat levels. This makes the map easy to learn but it's also very boring and cripples its lifespan. I don't think you need to add an entirely new third tier to the floorplan, but you should at least vary elevation a bit. A good place to start would be the (kind of weak) PG level. Raise it a few 64s to give it an advantage over the very strong RL area that needs more weak points. - Right now your major armor items are two YAs and an MH. This is probably going to result in one player grabbing the MH and YA near the LG and the other getting stuck with just the YA near the RG. You may want to make the YA near the RG an RA if you find this creates too much imbalance. - I think the area closer to the RG needs another weapon for the recently spawned player. Imagine how easy it would be for someone to camp the RL and cut you off completely from the rest of the map. I think a secondary SG would be perfect right in the center of that YA room. - Health is scattered evenly about the map in the form of 25s. This reduces health and recovery strategy. Lately in my maps I've been trying to figure out the places where players would naturally run to recover. The ideal place is usually somewhere with cover that is easy to escape to. I find these places and put a solid amount of low-risk, easily accessible health there. The rest of my map gets health in more open, high-risk areas without much cover. So players shouldn't have too much trouble getting the high-risk health when no one is around, but if they need to replenish their health in the heat of the action, they have to escape to the recovery area, where they aren't such easy targets. - You should caulk your alphas. Not for performance, but to make it easier to noclip up to the top of the map and study it from a bird's eye view. This way people can get to know the map quicker, take screenshots, and maybe highlight certain areas for you. Right now most of the map is blocked by the textured ceilings. P.S. Q3W is telling me you responded to AEon after I started writing this. So just pretend this post came before your response because I haven't read it yet. |
Author: | cityy [ 09-27-2009 10:25 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Quote: I just ran through this for about 15 minutes. I haven't actually played a game but here are some things I noticed. (A lot of these competitive tourney concepts are *VERY* new to me, so bear with me, and help me out by correcting me if you see a fault in my logic.) I'm pretty much newbie here too Quote: A good place to start would be the (kind of weak) PG level. Raise it a few 64s to give it an advantage over the very strong RL area that needs more weak points. I love this idea - pretty sure I will do this! Quote: - Right now your major armor items are two YAs and an MH. This is probably going to result in one player grabbing the MH and YA near the LG and the other getting stuck with just the YA near the RG. You may want to make the YA near the RG an RA if you find this creates too much imbalance. Gonna think about that when major layout is finished. I will keep it in mind. Quote: - I think the area closer to the RG needs another weapon for the recently spawned player. Imagine how easy it would be for someone to camp the RL and cut you off completely from the rest of the map. I think a secondary SG would be perfect right in the center of that YA room. I also agree with this point! Didn't think about that yet. I'm also unsure about the spawn points in that area - maybe some1 can give feedback!? - I'm currently pretty fine with the position of the 25s. I was thinking about +5s but I couldnt get a clear opinion about where to place them. Quote: - You should caulk your alphas. Not for performance, but to make it easier to noclip up to the top of the map and study it from a bird's eye view. This way people can get to know the map quicker, take screenshots, and maybe highlight certain areas for you. Right now most of the map is blocked by the textured ceilings. Going to do that. |
Author: | cityy [ 09-28-2009 11:28 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Update: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3_alpha2.zip - Alpha 2 Added planks at TP exit. PG area is a little bit higher now. Some changes here - now a JP leads to rg. YA is on a higher level. Added a GL. Yout have to drop down to RG now. Fixed the boxes. Other Changes: Replaced the YA at PG with a RA - added caulk - changed some 25 positions. Not sure about: Spawn points, alternative way to the RG, the RA and other things... - cityy |
Author: | AEon [ 09-29-2009 03:22 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
I seem to be "messing" into quite a few maps lately... hmm... anyway :
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Author: | cityy [ 09-29-2009 06:24 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
@ AEon: Quote: You might like to add more botclip to let Xaero climb those boxes to reach the PG Gonna do that. Quote: The bot does not seem to use the JP nearby. I also noticed bots don't use any JP and the teleporter neither. Anyone knows how to make them notice the JPs/TP? Quote: I'd add 2x25 spread out where the SG is, i.e. under cover, to let the player gain health, should the MH be gone or too dangerous to grab. I thought about adding a 25 at the stairway. I think 2 would be too much since there is already one 25 on the way to the RG. Quote: This is a bit radical, but IMO, the long paths from the RG room to the MH, are simply too long. My problem there is that I dont want the YA level to become too small. I'm pretty fine with the size of the ya room atm. I also think that making this corridor shorter would encourage the player to use it more often - IMO grabbing the MH, then passing the LG, going up to the RL and having a lot of new possibilities what to do is better or saver than using the long corridor leading to rg room. Since ppl may not use the LG way that often making the way to rg room shorter would totally kill the path near the lg. That's what I think. To your suggestion to the rg room: I think this would make it really dangerous to take the rg. IMO you already can pretty much controle the rg room with nades. It's even easier in cpma since the cpma nades fly further and explode later than the vq3 nades. Don't stop to "mess" please =) What do folks think about spawn points and the RA? Any other feedback? |
Author: | Pat Howard [ 09-30-2009 12:03 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Do you know about item_botroams? They are like fake entities that only bots can see and you can set the weight of them based on how high of a priority they should be for bots. |
Author: | AEon [ 09-30-2009 12:07 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Some ideas:
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Author: | Silicone_Milk [ 09-30-2009 06:02 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
botroams are finicky things. I had to use a few in my quicke alpha to balance each other out. One botroam tends to unbalance the bots behavior and they'll often ignore good weapons in favor of the lesser weapons closer to the botroam. Play with them. You'll eventually find the equilibrium needed to get the bots running right. |
Author: | AEon [ 10-14-2009 11:22 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Well I love your red light (Andromeda texture set!) and the tubes in the background. |
Author: | fKd [ 10-15-2009 05:51 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
turn down your ambient light level, its missing contrast |
Author: | AEon [ 10-15-2009 09:07 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Some thoughts:
Nice lighting! |
Author: | cityy [ 10-15-2009 09:57 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
@ AEon: Quote: 1st shot in the group of 4 above: Your hole in the floor could use some sort of edge texture (i.e. trim). The cut into the metal grate floor looks a bit "unfinished" as it is. Yep, I agree, gonna use the same texture as for the other levels trim. Quote: Same image: The vertical "tube-ish" texture looks good as trim on the left/right wall, but "splashing" all three walls surrounding the hole with this texture less so. I'd suggest using a different texture/set of textures here. I will think about that - for now I can say that I share your opinion but I can't say yet what I will do. Quote: 3rd shot of 4: The problem shot. Some things to try: Add a row of vertical tubes on the right side of the wall leading the camera. The idea would be to make the path up there less wide. IMO, presently is it clearly *too* wide. Another thing you can additionally try, is to add some more floor deco to help reduce the monotony of the floor area. You might need to have to do something in 3D, but we'd need a more recent update of the map to be able to provide suggestions. I will try the tube thing. Yea, I know giving feedback from screenshots is kinda hard. No school the next 2 weeks - that means that I will release a new version within this time. Quote: 1st shot in the group of 2: You will be using a patch on the right side ceiling, right? Instead of those angles brushes? Yes, I will This was just a cloned brush from the top RG area. *lazy* Thanks - I'm doing my best I would like to add a custom skybox to the map or just try how it looks like but I can't get it working.. I downloaded the skybox collection from lvlworld and choose myself a skybox I like. My problem is that I don't know how to place the textures after I placed the shader in the scripts folder Tryed different ways but I don't get how to place it the right way. /me feels so noob right now |
Author: | cityy [ 10-17-2009 02:38 PM ] |
Post subject: | Q3ct3 - new shots |
See the latest crap I produced : FPS starts droping - I have to add caulk brushes and all this stuff soon. Update maybe on monday. |
Author: | cityy [ 10-18-2009 11:58 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
***UPDATE*** Latest beta: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3_beta.zip Sorry for the post spamm the last few days, I will work on summing up my posts in the future. Tho, enjoy the update - I hope I didn't forgett to include any textures. - cityy |
Author: | AEon [ 10-18-2009 12:49 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
The map is starting to look really nice, but as I feared most folks will probably never see all the cool details way up in the map. A few things:
IMO, the layout still is missing something, though I have a hard time pointing out what exactly. Probably a 3rd height level, allowing for some clever vertical fights. Presently the 2nd level area with the RL (the one near the RA) is a bit dead. But then again I am not a 1on1 player, so I may well be missing some tactics. |
Author: | cityy [ 10-19-2009 09:33 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
***UPDATE: Beta2*** Link: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3_beta2.zip Changes: - fixed the caulk issue at the RG room - I should have been visiting it before uploading the map - worked on the floor trim at the tubes - added jumppad textures from sock's tech set. @ AEon: I was messing arround with the andromeda jumppad textures and imo they are too blueish and in the end I liked the shader of sock's textures more - freaky colors - removed the second RL - I wasn't sure about it anyway - tweaked RG jumppad Layout changes: - added an additional way up to the PG area - Added an extra room at the PG are containing another YA and LG ammo - added 5 armor shards in front if this room to give the area more importance - now you can take up a total amor amount of 75 visiting this area Some things btw: Quote: WARNING: could not find sound/misc/windfly.wav - using default I don't know how to fix this Known bugs: - badly sized brush at the RL - texture issue at the PG jumppad As usual I hope that I didn't forgett anything, enjoy! Thank you for the latest feedback. - cityy |
Author: | AEon [ 10-19-2009 10:24 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Have not tested the map yet, but concerning:
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Author: | cityy [ 10-19-2009 10:39 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Quote: search for "windfly" No results here :/ Quote: You must have more than one sound entity in the map. Sound entities? /afk google |
Author: | AEon [ 10-19-2009 11:05 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
Hmm... strange about windfly... no idea why it's not possible to track the warning. About the changes:
Update:
The map is still quite "angly" (right angles). You should be able to find the areas where some "rounding off" or 45° cuts in the columns/corners may help. I don't recall the locations presently, I only noted that I kept running into a "corner". |
Author: | cityy [ 10-23-2009 06:58 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
**UPDATE - beta3** Link: http://cityy.explicits.de/uploads/maps/q3ct3_beta3.zip An experimental beta - enjoy Thanks for your great feedback AEon. Tho I didn't have the time to think about all your points yet. |
Author: | AEon [ 10-23-2009 08:21 AM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
You prove again why I should never edit someone else's map, since you came up with some really good thoughts and changes yourself.
Map is getting better and better... and the layout is starting to be really interesting and fun to play. Update:
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Author: | Tabun [ 10-23-2009 01:58 PM ] |
Post subject: | Re: Q3ct3 *alpha* |
I still don't know squat about the rules of creating maps that play well, so I'll just chip in with a few notes on how it looks.
That's all I can think of right now. It looks like it should be fun and solid to play, but like I said -- not the best judge of that. |
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