q3dmp11 - tech edge

[fKd]

ok here is what im working on now, its based on q2 the edge (ha i know, how many times has this been done ) i've been working on this on and off for a wee while now. this started out as a wee sketch and has started to come together.. if you can give me any feedback that would be really cool.

Things to do:

under the grenade launcher there is a chalk face visible

clipping (right now its very rough)

brush work and nailing down the theme, final textures etc

optimization to get the frame rate down (the construction of quite a bit of this seems to be getting very messy.. sometimes my brain just switches off and surfaces which should be chalk are not, ack. also some crazy cutting from subtractions, so the brash count is higher than it should be.

item layout

a txt file giving credit to all the great texture artists etc

[pjw]

I'll try to give it a look sometime soon--the shots look good.

But please stop saying chalk (it's "caulk"). Also, don't use subtract; it's never necessary and almost never does things in a good way. Just use the clipper and edge-dragging.

Okay, I'll shut up and quit being a whiny ass now...

[fKd]

been missing around with making a rock formation.... kinda fun, but kinda tough at the same time

[Hipshot]

Model it. It's easier and the results better. Both visually and performance vise, since you can optimize it easier/better.

[fKd]

no feedback makes fKd a sad panda

but on a side note, got heaps more done, its really starting to come together now... 2 weeks tops till final

[g0th-]

I like the style reminds me of Atlantis in Stargate. the "stairs" to the Middle tower thing in the big room feels strange, I also think the map is a bit to dark.

[fKd]

right right, i was also lookin at those stairs and thinking the same thing so i'll get onto that.
yeah it is quite a dark map, i need a crt monitor so i can see the real colours. im working on a laptop so it tends to make it look brighter depending on the angle on the screen lol.
maybe just increasing the ambient lighting level will do the trick.

[pjw]

I'm playing it right now...thoughts as I go. First I'm just running around a bit by myself...

-The whole thing maybe feels a *bit* cramped. I certainly don't expect you to expand the map, but maybe something to keep in mind for next time?

-Not sure if I'm crazy about these ramps:

The glass seems a bit out of place--it's fine for the windows in various places, but seems weird as ramps...also, is the ledge I'm on just for lurking? It's a little awkward to get up there, so it maybe seems weird to have nothing there...?

-love the hypo placement

-you can get stuck behind the big open crate with the health in it. If you jump up on top and then fall behind it, you're fucked.

-jumppad from RL up to YA...maybe make the left-hand side of that a little different somehow, as a visual cue that you're going to go left at the top?

-move the jumppad trigger here:

closer to the wall. You can jump and miss the trigger if you're pushing into the wall (I'm just standing there in that shot), and then have to back up before you go up.

-Wow. RG in a dead-end, only reachable underwater...I dunno about that. That's pretty brutal. If someone knows you're in there, you're pretty much hosed. I would really rethink this bit. Maybe make *some* other way out, even if it's awkward? Maybe hop up some crates and up through a hole near the YA directly above? Something like that? If you don't want someone to drop down, just make a one-way force field out of patch mesh...

-Love the PG area and the shallow water on the floor--that's always a nice audio cue...

-I found lots of places where I would get hung up on wall geometry if I was hugging the wall--you should clip that stuff smooth...

-Played with bots for a bit (and had fun!)--they seem to have some confusion around the health in the crate--I noticed at least one of them going backward and forward there--like they wanted the health but had trouble getting to it. Maybe some clipping is necessary there?

-I really like the vertical elements in this map--lots of level-over-level and death from above and below; that's always good.

-The green roof tiles that you can jump up next to from LG seem maybe a bit out of place with the theme. Sort of gothic rather than tech-y.

Hope this helps. Some good stuff here...

[fKd]

fantastic help man, work shell be done on almost all of your points. txt credit has been added

i've redone the ramps and fixed most of the clipping, bots are getting quite tough which is nice. texturing has been made a bit more solid and the jumppad section from the rl has been fully reworked.

i based the map on the edge and thats where i got the water to rg section... but you might be right... maybe a teleport or something... hmmmm i'll bring some new shots in to work tomorrow and show you guys whats happening so far... maybe even a new test build...

again, thanks so much for taking the time to check this map out, its really good having others look over ya work as all these hours infront of radient, you sometimes lose the ability to know whats working and whats not.

[fKd]

Big update... been working all weekend on this... i think its starting to get to the end phase..

and some screenshots






looking forward to some feedback

[DTS]

Just going by the latest screenshots:

Too much dirt on some walls. (I'd prefer no dirt at all, but I presume that's asking too much )

All that yellow makes me sick.

The steps in that last shot look really thin...

[GONNAFISTYA]

The best advice I can give for this map/thread is to ignore any comments from DTS.

Nice work fkd.

[fKd]

chirp

[krekits]

I had a go as well. Agree pretty much with what pjw said. I would have liked another way out of the PG area, seems like there's a bit much stairs upwards IMO. Also, it's pretty easy to hoard PG and two PG ammo packs, and it's pretty close to the other PG. Maybe your favourite weapon is the PG? Remove the other PG perhaps. Didn't look much at the textureing, but noticed that on a flight of stairs they were misaligned.

[obsidian]

krekits, is it just me or have you not posted here in ages? Hi and don't be a stranger is all I'm saying...

[g0th-]

I like the new brighter lightning but I think you have over saturated the colors a bit.

I did a few color tweaks in photoshop on one of your screens and as you can see the result is much more neutral and more relaxing for the eye to look on.
[lvlshot]http://www.g0th.se/pics/map_color.JPG[/lvlshot]

[sock]

I like the new brighter lightning but I think you have over saturated the colors a bit.

I totally agree, this level has way too many different light colour types and the image that goth has done is much better. Subtle lighting with a really nice texture colour balance.

[Hipshot]

You are very productive.
I don't have time to do a test like the one I did last time and you have improved on most of the things I criticized your last level on. However, here's some things, more or less about graphics:


# Improve and look over clipping. This level is even more detailed than your previous one, thus you need to be even more thorough about your clipping pass.
# Remove unseen faces. It's so simple, just noclip over the level and look.
# Look and see where you have brush sides where there's no face - inside the playable area. I can see one spot in these screen shots, I have been waiting for someone to mention it, but none have.
# Credit me for my weapon markers which I created specially for my Industrial level - Or better, remove them. They are inconsistent with the rest of the markers. I have mentioned this to you before, you need to pay more attention to consistency within your levels, on all parts, from textures, to brush shapes etc.
# Make the water fog more opaque, it looks alright now, but would look much better and not as much as you swim in the air if you increase it.
# Remove one of the dripping lines by the water, it looks very repetitive, or maybe it's just me.
# I have to agree about the saturation here. It's too many different colors, would work just fine in Unreal Tournament, but not as good in Quake 3.
# r_speeds are very high, maybe you can look over the VIS a bit more. But the level has a very high brush detail count it seems, might be hard.

If you can start to nail down stuff like this, you could produce really good stuff I'm sure of it. But then it would take more time between releases of levels.
I like the cable solution here (red and blue thin cables on the wall) and will probably do something similar in my current level in prod.

[fKd]

great advice, cheers everyone. back to work

[pjw]

# Look and see where you have brush sides where there's no face - inside the playable area. I can see one spot in these screen shots, I have been waiting for someone to mention it, but none have.

Maybe I'm just being slow--it's been a long week--but I'm not sure what this means? Brush sides where there's no face?

[fKd]

i had a caulk face showing, its been fixed ages ago. bit foolish having it in a screenshot

[Hipshot]

# Look and see where you have brush sides where there's no face - inside the playable area. I can see one spot in these screen shots, I have been waiting for someone to mention it, but none have.

Maybe I'm just being slow--it's been a long week--but I'm not sure what this means? Brush sides where there's no face?

Sorry, I meant a face with caulk on =) It's been a long week =)

[pjw]

Ah. okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[Hipshot]

Ok, I took a look at the pk3 more closely and seriously, you really really need to fix this pk3 before you make a final ship of this level.
It contains 31 different texture folders with 17 shader files - it's crazy!? - some nuggets here are that you included the common shader, the sfx shader and a modified shader file from my latest level, that breaks it!. In the read me you have credited 4 bodies, where one is iD software - for the game - which is not really needed, this is not even close to the number of custom textures you've used in this level. It's technically very bad and I think it's insanely lazy not to have a proper pk3 file. You can't release the level like this, you will probably have conflicts with other levels around then just mine.

Do this:

# Remove all ids shader files - why do you need them here? Have you modified them in any way, that is very bad.
# Move all textures into one folder, name it fkd_p11.
# Copy all separate shaders from all the different files into one shader file, name it fkd_p11.shader.
# Modify that shader file to work with the new texture folder.
# Modify the level to work with the new paths. Just use the search and replace in radiant, it should be very easy but could be a little tedious.
# Fix the conflict with my level either by doing the move I described earlier or by not using them. If you release the level and my _m13 level doesn't work, then I will in the future put a note in my readmes that you are forbidden to use my shaders and textures.


I'm not being mean or anything here, it's just very bad to release a level with a pk3 in this state.

[pjw]

Just adding a quick "me too" here for emphasis.

I'm not being mean or anything here

He's really not. Proper texture/asset/pack organization is one of my pet peeves, and I would have harassed you earlier, had I noticed.

I suspect that you're using some form of auto-pk3-generator? Yeah, don't do that. In any case, if you have any problems sorting it out, feel free to email/pm me for help. (And/or look at the textures/shaders/structure in any of my maps--"Guns" uses a lot of custom stuff, for example.) It's really not that difficult, but can be confusing if you're not used to it...