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Topic Starter Topic: Half life 2
DRuM
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PostPosted: 07-31-2005 11:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I never played it, but I need a question answered. On a different forum, someone asked what the best fps shooter is. I, totally biased of course, :icon25: said Q3 for best physics, balanced weapons and skill level. Someone said Half Life 2 beats Q3 in all those respects. Is that true then? To show how much I know, is HL2 an online game or just single player? :paranoid:
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 07-31-2005 11:10 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HL2 deathmatch is grabbing anything you can find and launch it towards another player. its very gimmicky, whereas in Q3 (or any other DM game for that matter), it actually matters what weapon you are wielding



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DRuM
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PostPosted: 07-31-2005 11:12 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
HL2 deathmatch is grabbing anything you can find and launch it towards another player. its very gimmicky, whereas in Q3 (or any other DM game for that matter), it actually matters what weapon you are wielding


So from what you're saying, there isn't the same learning curve and ultimate skill level. What about physics?
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glossy
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PostPosted: 07-31-2005 11:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


i think a gravity-gun only gametype on HL2 could be kinda interesting, if done right.

that said, i've had very limited experience with HL2. maybe when the q3 source is out, a similar kind of TC could be made? (that is, quake3, but with destructible everything, throwable objects, etc. Not so much of this "WOAHBETTERGRAPHICS" shit, more of the gameplay overhaul)
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 07-31-2005 11:18 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


the problem of throwable objects + advanced physics is that is makes the game too random. you could throw a chair at high speed against a wall. it would bounce off and still kill somebody.

its like a grenade only DM6 :g



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glossy
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PostPosted: 07-31-2005 11:29 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
the problem of throwable objects + advanced physics is that is makes the game too random. you could throw a chair at high speed against a wall. it would bounce off and still kill somebody.

its like a grenade only DM6 :g


that's the point, so you'd have to plan for it -- You see someone throwing a chair, you could grab the chair with your gravgun and throw it back, or be hit and get knocked over/away. In the same line, throw a pane of glass or a bottle against a wall and watch it shatter, fragmenting around the place. To counteract, use things like couch cushions, matresses etc.

I suppose it would work better in a TDM context as well, fort building and the like?
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MKJ
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PostPosted: 07-31-2005 11:32 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hah yea that would be a fun mod to play once in a blue moon i think. in practise it wouldnt require as much skill, if you play with more than 6 people I think



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seremtan
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 04:42 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


MKJ wrote:
HL2 deathmatch is grabbing anything you can find and launch it towards another player. its very gimmicky, whereas in Q3 (or any other DM game for that matter), it actually matters what weapon you are wielding


in hl2 it actually matters what you throw. a metal bed or breeze block will batter someone. an empty crate won't. plus in hl2 there's the difficulty of your opponent catching the thing you throw and tossing it back at you. it isn't gimmicky, it's just a different set of 'rules'
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seremtan
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 04:45 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


DRuM wrote:
I never played it, but I need a question answered. On a different forum, someone asked what the best fps shooter is. I, totally biased of course, :icon25: said Q3 for best physics, balanced weapons and skill level. Someone said Half Life 2 beats Q3 in all those respects. Is that true then? To show how much I know, is HL2 an online game or just single player? :paranoid:


i think you're both wrong. they're just different. q3a is 'purer' due to the simple physics, which appeals more to some, while hl2 is more complex not simply because you can throw/use stuff but because of the physical properties of what you throw/use
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tnf
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 07:05 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Apples and oranges.
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Kills On Site
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 07:55 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


WEll HL2 is really all about the single player and q3 is all about the multiplayer. Like tnf said, apples and oranges



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emoticon
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 08:14 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


http://www.improbable.com/airchives/pap ... pples.html

Conclusions

"Not only was this comparison easy to make, but it is apparent from the figure that apples and oranges are very similar. Thus, it would appear that the comparing apples and oranges defense should no longer be considered valid. This is a somewhat startling revelation. It can be anticipated to have a dramatic effect on the strategies used in arguments and discussions in the future."
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Don Carlos
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 08:17 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


blimey....



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Foo
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 09:31 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The argument over the 'better' game, even when you name specific traits, is futile.

There Drum, I just saved you.... probably hours.



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dzjepp
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 09:33 AM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


The best game ever is pong. So simple even a caveman could play it (if somehow, you can turn back time via a sturdy constructed time machine, and travel to the land before time, and give a caveman a pong paddle, theoretically he would be able to control the movement to at least advance to level 5).
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DRuM
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 09:49 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Foo wrote:
The argument over the 'better' game, even when you name specific traits, is futile.

There Drum, I just saved you.... probably hours.


Heh, but I still don't really know the answer to my questions. Do any other games implement physics that require training to use them consistently and smoothly, to the extent that Q3 does with all the various jumps and climbs, and do other games offer the same skill level of Q3, ie, duelling, CA, tdm, ctf?
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shiznit
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 09:51 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Yeah Unreal and the rest of the Quake clones.
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Foo
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 12:07 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


DRuM wrote:
Foo wrote:
The argument over the 'better' game, even when you name specific traits, is futile.

There Drum, I just saved you.... probably hours.


Heh, but I still don't really know the answer to my questions. Do any other games implement physics that require training to use them consistently and smoothly, to the extent that Q3 does with all the various jumps and climbs, and do other games offer the same skill level of Q3, ie, duelling, CA, tdm, ctf?


In terms of physics, many games exhibit this. Whether by design, or accident. For example in Quake 1, rocket jumping was 'an accident' which was left in, and when quakeworld came out it exhibited a ton more physics 'exploits' which arguably multiplied the level of skill one could develop in harnessing the physics. Likewise, UT2004 displays a number of unique traits in its physics which can leads to varying opportunities for skillful movement. However in this example, many of them were artificially implemented.

Thing is, with all these games, once you're past the initial learning bump, it's a slow climb uphill from there, and the amount of reward you get from the experience depends very (veryveryveryvery) strongly on the community and close circle of players you find (or not) during that time.

Take UT2004. For me, a very enjoyable game, mainly because I fell in with a nice group of players and played competitively, and was of good enough skill to enjoy that. As a contrast, Doom 3 came, and went... little multiplayer and no clan action for me. Not to say it wasn't and isn't there, but I never picked up into it

Thassss my point.



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iambowelfish
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PostPosted: 08-01-2005 12:59 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


DRuM wrote:
I never played it, but I need a question answered. On a different forum, someone asked what the best fps shooter is. I, totally biased of course, :icon25: said Q3 for best physics, balanced weapons and skill level. Someone said Half Life 2 beats Q3 in all those respects. Is that true then? To show how much I know, is HL2 an online game or just single player? :paranoid:


I think there's a little confusion here about what is meant by physics.

When Q3 was praised for its physics it was about the feel of the movement as well as the potential you mention for jumps and climbs. Personally I don't think this has been bettered. To me Q3 physics allows exceptional influence over things which are normally constant, and is just diffferent enough from real life to feel right.

When HL2 is praised for its physics it's the realistic behaviour of objects which is being referred to. This is far from superficial in what it adds to the gameplay, and I've played some enjoyable games of gravity-gun only deathmatch, organised by a gentleman's agreement.

However, for me, the movement just doesn't feel as good.
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*OptimusPrime*
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 02:17 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


oranges are better i must say
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4days
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 04:27 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


iambowelfish wrote:
However, for me, the movement just doesn't feel as good.


aye, q3 really nailed something there. hl2, ut2004 and a lot of other games with more graphic intensity and physics'y things just don't feel as real.

call of duty:uo is still my commercial game of choice if i fancy shooting stuff after work. it's similar enough to q3 to have that satisfying feeling of moving about in the world and shooting things you're aiming at - but with enough bells, whistles and pretty lights to bring it up to date.

otherwise, it's tc:elite or air buccaneers :)
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netrex
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 05:24 AM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


HL2 is the best singleplayer shooter I've ever played. In mp it's very fun, but not as random as some say it is. It's the most fun FPS game I play these days in multiplayer. Still love Q3 and play it from time to time on LAN, but I'm all HL2DM online, preferably 1on1, but organized TDM or public DM works also. Waiting for AG2 or Q4 whichever is better. The HL2DM movement is slow though :/ that's a big let down. Specially considering how fast HLDM was before Valve "fixed" it (though AG put the speed back in it). Whan (if) AG2 comes the speed will be back though.



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seremtan
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 04:13 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


memphis is channelling the word of god today. drummy - you really shouldn't need to be asking on here about hl2. you should have bought it and played it a long time ago
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Duhard
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 06:50 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


hl2 is one of the worst games ever made...
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SoM
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 06:56 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


seperate already



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blakjack
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 08:39 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


a game has a defined set of rules. im sick of games that try to get away with no rules...and call this 'realism'. hl2 looks nice but all the junk in the levels and the gravgun etc is just peripheral noise. it doesnt make it a better game.

btw: When you say physics to a q3 player, they think movement, flow, reaction to controls etc. When you say physics to a hl2 player, they think gravgun, paint tins leaving paint marks when you throw them, and walking onto and getting stuck on a filing cabinet.
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SoM
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 08:45 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


blakjack wrote:
a game has a defined set of rules. im sick of games that try to get away with no rules...and call this 'realism'. hl2 looks nice but all the junk in the levels and the gravgun etc is just peripheral noise. it doesnt make it a better game.

btw: When you say physics to a q3 player, they think movement, flow, reaction to controls etc. When you say physics to a hl2 player, they think gravgun, paint tins leaving paint marks when you throw them, and walking onto and getting stuck on a filing cabinet.


i'd put it this way..

q3 player = mature

hl2 player = 8-12 yo



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netrex
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 08:47 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


I've always said I was 12 mentally.



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Duhard
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 08:56 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bottom line...

hl2 --> single player
q3 --> multiplayer
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dzjepp
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 08:58 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Bottom line... post the pic that shows the type of fps players. <3
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Duhard
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 09:04 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


dzjepp wrote:
Bottom line... post the pic that shows the type of fps players. <3


roflmao...here's an updated version of my masterpiece..

Image

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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dzjepp
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 09:06 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


lol :>
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SoM
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 09:08 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


them arent 22" biceps

peewee



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Duhard
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 09:21 PM           Profile   Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


SoM wrote:
them arent 22" biceps

peewee


That's not me, it's just another lightweight.

hmm maybe I should put a pic of my heavenly body in there...good plan.
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DRuM
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PostPosted: 08-02-2005 10:02 PM           Profile Send private message  E-mail  Edit post Reply with quote


Tbh, I've just slacked with so many SP games. I still haven't finished doom3, last time I played it was last year, and I'm still at delta labs 2. Still haven't quite finished tomb raider angel of darkness, and well, there's tons of games I'd love to play, HL2 being one of the most important. There was a time when I was waiting for a particular game to come out and I'd played everything I wanted to. Now, there's more games out than I can keep up with. I simply find myself still addicted so much to Q3 I haven't had the inclination to play anything else. :shrug:

But anyway, my point wasn't whether HL2 is any good, I know it is, as an SP game. It was more about how it compared as an MP.
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