Official Q3W EU Constitution Voting Behaviour Thread

[Don Carlos]

Your country will have to support the 12% unemployement in Germany. How the fuck is that fair? Just because they cant run their country properly, it doesnt mean that you should pay for it.

The world is going tit up. Its a fucking nightmare. Political Correctness is a joke. We are turning into America and we cant even see it. The way the US is run is fucking shocking. They need Clinton back.

Fact of the matter is, Japan rocks and i am going to live there.

[Don Carlos]

And Democracy died a long long time ago.

[MKJ]

heh i wasnt insinuating we should *get rid of all the foreigners* and all that crap. im all for progressive thinking. problem is that in a case like this, duthceeland will prolly end up compensating for lack of economy in the east and demolish all those free-thinking ideas because 60% of europe opposes to them.

reminder: we keep our national laws about abortion, softdrugs which the EU won't involve.

The European Constitution is about European matters.

But true, it's crap that Holland pays the biggest contribution per head to the EU.

true about existing laws, but what about new laws which we dutchos think is ok in our culture? thatll suck no? i think the EU will hold us back in what we do best - make up crazy laws and get props for them

[saturn]

The expectation is that 55-60 of the dutch voters will oppose the Constiution, following France.

Bit painful for two of the "founding fathers" of Europe

[MKJ]

The expectation is that 55-60 of the dutch voters will oppose the Constiution, following France.

Bit painful for two of the "founding fathers" of Europe

i thought there had to be a unanimous YES for it to take off
france already said no. why are we still voting anyways?

[saturn]

heh i wasnt insinuating we should *get rid of all the foreigners* and all that crap. im all for progressive thinking. problem is that in a case like this, duthceeland will prolly end up compensating for lack of economy in the east and demolish all those free-thinking ideas because 60% of europe opposes to them.

reminder: we keep our national laws about abortion, softdrugs which the EU won't involve.

The European Constitution is about European matters.

But true, it's crap that Holland pays the biggest contribution per head to the EU.

true about existing laws, but what about new laws which we dutchos think is ok in our culture? thatll suck no? i think the EU will hold us back in what we do best - make up crazy laws and get props for them

lol, but no, new national laws are nation laws and the EU won't have a say in that.

[saturn]

The expectation is that 55-60 of the dutch voters will oppose the Constiution, following France.

Bit painful for two of the "founding fathers" of Europe

i thought there had to be a unanimous YES for it to take off
france already said no. why are we still voting anyways?

cause France isn't the end of the world

there's a slowdown in the process of integrating Europe now, but it'll give a signal that the European citizens need more information and more involvement.

[MKJ]

more involvement

that would help a whole lot

less propeganda too

[Pext]

maybe it's a good thing that the constitution is somehow delayed by the votings: there is a lot more discussion and media coverage going on.

if it was silently accepted by all countries, nobody would care.

[saturn]

heh, but the German and British governments have accepted it already without referenda

[saturn]

p.s. Ryoki, here's another site about the EU constitution with pro and anti statements

http://www.grondweteu.nl/index.html

[Don Carlos]

heh, but the German and British governments have accepted it already without referenda

EXACTLY
SAME AS OUT STUPID FUCKING I.D CARDS

[saturn]

don't blame europe for your government's decisions

[Ryoki]

Sat, i'm beginning to become convinced for a Yes vote. That law thing was my biggest issue, and it seems taken to be care of. Still some more reading to do. Before the end of the day i shall post my decision

@Donneh: In all of Europe there is no country as much principally opposed to the EU as the UK. I don't know, perhaps it is the completely goddamn crazy notion that Britain still plays a major role in world politics, or the fact that you brits instictively disagree with everything the French propose, or a still lingering imperial sentiment but the fact is that time and time again the UK has frustrated almost every move the EU tries to make.

If i could pick between having the UK or Turkey in the EU, i'd go for Turkey because it'd be much better for the future of Europe to have an enthausiastic new member trying it's best to live up to expectations than a having member that slows everything down.

Btw your money argument makes no sense at all, of course rich member states pay more and receive less than poor member states. Why are you outraged at this? It seems completely logical to me, like rich people who pay more tax than the minimum income households.

[Ryoki]

http://www.grondweteu.nl/index.html

Ooo thankie *clicks*

[saturn]

Sat, i'm beginning to become convinced for a Yes vote. That law thing was my biggest issue, and it seems taken to be care of. Still some more reading to do. Before the end of the day i shall post my decision

good man

Of course I'm trying to convince you to vote yes, but I wouldn't mind if you would vote "no", but not for the wrong reasons and misassumptions.

[busetibi]

cause France isn't the end of the world

well it is the arse end of the world,
does that count?

[Ryoki]

i cant vote ( )

Why not btw?

[seremtan]

...the EU will speak with one voice!

And what will that one voice say? Will it state the foreign policy positions of a majority of Europeans? Not fucking likely since foreign policy is already considered an elite preserve. National governments have enough trouble finding unity for their own foreign policy positions (i.e. the Iraq war) without multiplying the difficulty by 25 or however many EU members there are now.

I would vote no to the EU constitution as it stands (I consider myself pro-Europe but pretty lukewarm on the EU), because it is little more than a technical document to be passed about and obsessed over by the European political and juridical elite. The whole EU enterprise is one big top-down game, with minimal enthusiasm at the grassroots level (i.e. where democracy actually happens).

[Pext]

the brits and their EU politics are hilarious: a bunch of posh island pussies and beer driven hooligans laughing at the continent while their island is slowly drifting away...

i bet, in ten years, they will come and beg for a full membership.

[MKJ]

i cant vote ( )

Why not btw?

i accidentally threw out my bill :icon27:

[Ryoki]

:icon19:

[Pext]

...the EU will speak with one voice!

And what will that one voice say? Will it state the foreign policy positions of a majority of Europeans? Not fucking likely since foreign policy is already considered an elite preserve. National governments have enough trouble finding unity for their own foreign policy positions (i.e. the Iraq war) without multiplying the difficulty by 25 or however many EU members there are now.

well... the majority of euros was against the iraq war. if there would have been a foreign minister, the so called 'coalition of the willing' ( :icon29: ) would just not have happened the way it did.
both spains and the uk population were majorly opposed to the war... but the gov. decided to suck some US cock. well... spain is a bit different now after madrid and they sided with france and germany again.

[corsair]

I think a lot of people totaly, totaly dont know what it means. even though I didnt really follow whats been said, I knew I'd vote yes right away.. Did a test for the sake of the %
m'off to vote now

Resultaat

Uw opvattingen komen voor
82%
overeen met de Grondwet.

Mate van overeenkomst met de grondwet per thema

Europese instellingen
87%
Sociaal beleid en economie
50%
Milieu en landbouw
100%
Justitie
87%
Defensie en Buitenlands beleid
87%

[MKJ]

theres that biased test i was talking about :icon14: gg